clbent04

The purpose of this thread for me is to acknowledge and contemplate further how Jesus came to save the world, not condemn it. A specific example of what I relate this to is when X organization says to its member, "You must say the exact words, 'I accept Jesus Christ into my heart', in order to obtain salvation." This type of mindset is prevalent in many Christian religions including The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (think temple ordinances). Yes, being saved from an LDS belief perspective is possible without going through temple ordinances, but entering the Celestial Kingdom is not. I don't know if there is a "one and only true church of God" here on the earth today. Whether or not there is, I don't believe in a God who will condemn any of us for not reciting a specific phrase or doing a specific ordinance at least until the truth of such phrases or ordinances can be revealed to us in such a way we cannot deny or refute it. Living by faith to draw closer to Jesus Christ is evidenced by many different walks of life, and no one organization has the one and only way to do it.

I don't know if God's one and only true religion is currently present on Earth. Whether it is or not, I believe God is a God of order and that a reconciliation will happen in due time to bring all His children together in His Kingdom. Since I believe faith in Jesus Christ includes being prompted to do good both inside and outside the name of religion, and that He is the source of all good, I don't think it's important for our salvation (at least in this life) to be able to specifically name Jesus Christ as the source of that good. Bob does a good deed and in doing so helps build the Kingdom of God whether Bob knew the name Jesus Christ or not. Since my definition of faith in Jesus Christ is extended to any doer of good, this qualifies the majority of mankind to at least have had some degree of faith in Christ during our mortal lives. I believe at some point every knee will bend and every tongue will confess that Jesus is the Lord. At that point or sometime leading up to it, I believe all will be presented with the truth that Jesus Christ is Lord in a way it can not be refuted or denied. From that moment on, it will then be to our condemnation if we do not reverence and acknowledge the name Jesus Christ. I believe the words in Moroni 7 that we can have perfect knowledge of things which are of God through the Holy Spirit. The chapter is focused on relying on the Holy Spirit to distinguish between good and evil.

I believe it is the same. I say this not from an LDS religious viewpoint, but how I believe God sees and evaluates all of His children on a spiritual level. All good is inspired by God, and He has many routes leading us back to His Kingdom. That's not to say I don't believe in "one Lord, one faith, one baptism." It's to say if there is one and only one true religion out there, the God I believe in isn't going to condemn us until we are given the choice to choose with sure knowledge of all options.

In the Spirit World is where I think the greatest reconciliation to this will happen.

It's not so much my preference as it is my understanding of God and how I believe God sees all His children and interacts with the world at large. I spent most my life overly concerned about how God will judge the world. Now I'm happy to leave that to the worry of others who might be stuck like I was in overly focusing on how God might condemn. I believe God is more merciful, understanding, and forgiving than most of us give Him credit for.

If God is the source of all light, and I'm motivated to action to do good by the influence of light, would I not already have faith in Christ even if I didn't know the specific name Jesus Christ?

No hard feelings. I appreciate your responses. I’m aware this thread is a bit scatterbrained on my part due to me trying to put words to thoughts I’ve never articulated before. What I can say is it’s one of those things where if we both put in enough brain power to sort out, we’d likely come to the conclusion that either we were saying the same thing all along in different ways or the differences are so minimal they’re immaterial. Instead of doing the work to get there, I’m content just leaving it where it is knowing that we both have good intentions and are coming from good places.

I don’t feel the need to respond further. Thank you for responses. I may revisit at a later time.

Sometimes it's the fault of the author. Sometimes it's the fault of the interpreter. Whichever the case, we both are followers of Jesus, and truth, and light. My failure for adequately conveying what's in my heart or your failure in misinterpreting it doesn't change that.

I don't want a more specific and narrow description of God. Saying He is all things related to truth and light supports my belief in His all encompassing presence related to all things good.

I believe faith in Jesus Christ is not only faith in the supreme being Jesus Christ, but also in all things related to truth and light since He is the source of all things good. Faith in Jesus Christ to me means that we follow and embrace the light inside or outside the name of religion.

My 3rd gen 2019 Tacoma was manufactured in Baja California, Mexico. If I got a full size truck I'd probably go with the Tundra as well.

Your examples focus on the disobedience of man. That isn't what I was addressing. I was talking about the light of Christ within us.

Not the same context as to what I'm addressing. I said "faith in Jesus Christ" and you switched it to "worship." Not the same. Faith in Jesus Christ can also apply to faith in the light of Christ that is within us. We are the body of Christ when we take upon ourselves the name of Jesus Christ. I didn't mention anything about Buddhism.

Yes, my thoughts are a bit jumbled in how I've expressed them in this thread. Apologies for that. And also thank you for your responses. In my mind, these thoughts are clearly connected together with the focus being on how God has not come to condemn but to save. We take upon ourselves the name of Christ and collectively represent the body of Christ. The light of Christ is present among mankind. Having faith in Christ and having faith in mankind sometimes represents the same thing, does it not? God works through us.

Whether the Father and the Son are two separate beings or one, does that fact have a significant impact on my progression while here on Earth and living by faith?

In terms of affecting our progression here on Earth, I don’t think it’s important to distinguish the Father from the Son. Whether they are two separate beings or one, it has no significant bearing on how I’m progressing here on Earth and living by faith. Once God reveals these things to us where we have a sure knowledge, then I think it’s important to accept and embrace the truth as it’s revealed to us.

Every time I've looked into a situation like this, the critic typically doesn't dismiss that the LDS Church believes in Jesus Christ; they discredit the Church as a Christian church due to not being trinitarian.

I agree with what you said here. I didn't word a few of posts as well as I could have to accurately convey what I was trying to express. I believe giving credit to Jesus Christ is important, but since He has many names, I don't think saying the specific name "Jesus Christ" is important. If I want to say God instead of Jesus Christ, my faith is neither diminished nor magnified.

My central point through this thread has been focused on how God came to save the world, not condemn it. I've posted this topic largely thinking about those I've observed in this world condemning others in the name of Jesus Christ. When I see people wanting others to say specific phrases like, "I accept Jesus Christ into my heart", or something along those lines where it's expected to be repeated verbatim in order to get that organization's sign off that that person has been saved, that to me has more of a focus on exclusion and condemning rather than saving. I think many religious organizations are guilty of condemning and overstepping boundaries of judgement that are God's and God's alone.

I'm trying to open my mind in terms of how God comes to save the world, not condemn it. When we say we must have faith in Jesus Christ to be saved, I think I misinterpreted that phrase for most my life as a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; I applied it too narrowly. I applied it more in terms of God damning people who aren't members of the Church rather than seeing how He is working with all of His children regardless of creed.

When it comes to God, I can't conceptualize everything that He is, how He came to be, how He exists as an individual, nor His power. When I say I have faith in Jesus Christ, I'm saying I have faith in something I don't understand. This makes analyzing the statement - faith in Jesus Christ - difficult for me. What I do understand are feelings or love, forgiveness, and compassion. God is all these things and is the source. I use these synonymously with Jesus Christ and God. Yes, Jesus Christ is more than a feeling, He is an individual, He is God, but it's those very feelings that help guide us towards the light.

I'm questioning what "faith in Christ" really means. I think it's more comprehensive than simply being confined to, "I believe in someone named Jesus Christ as my Savior." There's not a specific phrase or statement that we need to say in order to meet the criteria that we have faith in Christ. My opinion is we don't even need to specifically acknowledge the name Jesus Christ in order to have faith in Him since Jesus Christ is God and God is all things related to truth and light. If we seek after good things, we seek Jesus Christ. Does it even matter to our salvation that we give credit specifically to someone named Jesus Christ? I don't think so. God has many names: Alpha and Omega, Messiah, Jehovah, Immanuel, The Word, Our Dwelling Place, Lord Master... Is God not all truth and light? I think the purpose of specifically naming Jesus Christ has more to do with better understanding and appreciating the Savior's atoning sacrifice than it has to do with anything related to our salvation. This President Nelson quote that @zil2 shared makes sense to me in this regard:

@zil2 thank you for sharing this quote by President Nelson. This touches on part of what I was contemplating, namely, why it makes a difference - "The Savior’s atoning sacrifice—the central act of all human history—is best understood and appreciated when we expressly and clearly connect it to Him."

I agree. But can the Atonement not work in our lives regardless if we specifically acknowledge the name Jesus Christ?