BJ64

I should make it clear that I don’t M. My relationship with my wife is such that I do not have a desire to M.

Something I can’t comprehend is the concept that porn or fantasy is needed in order to M. M existed for thousands of years before widespread distribution of pornography. I do not equate the two.

Given the definition of lust. lust ləst/ noun 1. very strong sexual desire. "he knew that his lust for her had returned" synonyms: sexual desire, sexual appetite, sexual longing, ardor, desire, passion;More verb 1. have a very strong sexual desire for someone. "he really lusted after me in those days" synonyms: desire, be consumed with desire for, find sexually attractive, crave, covet, ache for, burn for; More It seems it would be hard to differentiate between a desire to M and a desire for ones spouse. Is lust always a sin or is it situational?

I have wondered why the Word of Wisdom has not been amended in the D&C to reflect the official interpretation of it.

“All that we teach in this Church ought to be couched in the scriptures. It ought to be found in the scriptures. We ought to choose our texts from the scriptures. If we want to measure truth, we should measure it by the four standard works, regardless of who writes it. If it is not in the standard works, we may well assume that it is speculation, man’s own personal opinion; and if it contradicts what is in the scriptures, it is not true. This is the standard by which we measure all truth” (“Using the Scriptures in Our Church Assignments,” Improvement Era, Jan. 1969, 13).

The Ensign is not canonized scripture. https://www.lds.org/manual/scripture-study-the-power-of-the-word-teacher-manual/lesson-1?lang=eng

Yes but I can’t think of a commandment given by modern revelation which has not been added to scripture (D&C), can you?

I think the saying that there are two kinds of people, those who masturbate and those who lie about it, is probably closer to the truth than most people want to admit.

M does not require lust or lustful or otherwise impure thoughts. Thoughts can be lustful/sinful at any moment of the day. Lustful thoughts do not require any other action. Sexual relations with a person who is not your (opposite gender) spouse are clearly defined as serious sin. Where in scripture is M clearly defined as sin. Of course at least one modern prophet has condemned it but like I asked earlier name a commandment that is not written in scripture. Again im not wishing to sound rebellious, I’m just asking where this teaching comes from. In a historical scriptural context.

I don’t know how BYU can be considered a credible university if they can’t teach the world view of science.

I don’t understand this comment.

I know that probably most church leadership feel that masturbation is sinful. I don’t think that feeling is universal though. Especially at the local level. I don’t want to sound like I’m promoting masturbation so don’t get me wrong but I would like to discuss where the anti masturbation teaching comes from. It is not found anywhere in the scriptures. Since if it is a sin it would surely be the most common of all sexual sins. Considering this, why wouldn’t it be discussed at length in the scriptures? Is there any other commandments we obey which cannot be found in scripture? Off hand I can’t think of any. By the 18th and 19th centuries “medical” practitioners promoted the idea that virtually every disease and mental condition was caused by masturbation and that “masturbation insanity” was a leading cause for people being put into insane asylums. Considering the mass hysteria created over masturbation could it be that the whole anti masturbation thing is cultural rather than spiritual such as the cultural events that played a part in the priesthood ban on black Africans? Again I’m bringing this up as a discussion topic and not to promote masturbation. I will add that masturbation has been spoken of about five times that I can think of in general conference while pornography is spoken of at about every conference. I will also say that porn should not be equated with masturbation since the two are separate things which may be done at the same time. To anyone who wants to use the story of Onan as a scriptural case of masturbation, be sure you understand the story before posting.

I guess I have a hard time thinking like a woman as far as clothing is concerned. I can’t predict how women feel in various clothIng. As far as formal wear is concerned, there are no formal events ever in my part of the country. I haven’t worn a tuxedo since my wedding thirty years ago. I’m not sure what you mean by being attracted to the spiritual. Basically I don’t allow myself to be attracted to women other than my wife. As far as the speedo is concerned I really think it’s to even worry about whether or not such a thing is modest or not. It could be said that no swimwear is modest on either men or women. However swimming is a sport and activity that has its own “uniform” so to speak. A speedo is appropriate for swimming just as a football uniform is appropriate for football. Either would be inappropriate at the mall.

Personally I think high heels look silly not sexy. They do nothing to attract my attention except to make me think her feet must hurt and she can’t walk right in those heels. However I see nothing wrong with a woman wearing them if that’s what she wants to wear. I don’t think they are sinful.

Due attention is the proper, reasonable, or deserved amount of it under the circumstances. Undue attention is greater or more extreme than you think is reasonable or appropriate. I suppose it’s up to the individual to decide how much attention is appropriate.

@Blossom76I have a couple of observations. The word of wisdom says barley can be used to make mild drinks. Beer in this context is a strong drink not a mild drink. It is my observation that most of the members I interact with abstain from tobacco, coffee, tea, and drugs but totally ignore the rest of it as though it did not exist. I try to obey the entire word of wisdom but I still need improvement. Besides the part of eating meat sparingly there is also the part about eating fruits and vegetables in the season thereof. I think the idea is it’s better to eat fresh food in season than to eat processed packaged food packed with artificial ingredients and preservatives. Of course it’s up to the individual to decide how they are going to live it but I’m convinced that the promised blessings such as health in the navel and marrow in the bones, run and not be weary and walk and not faint, the destroying angel passing over and the hidden treasures of knowledge are going to be given in a greater degree to those who live the word of wisdom to a greater degree.

How do you differentiate between due attention and undue attention?

I will go on record again saying I do not think speedos are immodest when worn at locations where swimwear is worn. They are simply the right clothing for the occasion. Especially when actually swimming. I have worn them for the past 37 years including at the athletic club yesterday and today.

“We do not draw undue attention to ourselves”. Such as wearing a suit and tie everywhere one goes?

Do you see examples of guys in speedos where you’re at?

I didn’t ask for pictures. It’s probably not appropriate to post immodest pictures here. Written examples will do.

You are about to end up on my ignore list. I have said that I don’t teach modestybto boys because I haven’t seen the need. Then I asked for examples of immodestly in male dress to which I got one reply. Aparently no one else has noticed immodestly dressesd males either.

And now I told you why I don’t teach modesty to boys. As I later explained I was looking for an example of immodest dress.

I didn’t say I was not in favor of teaching it. I said I haven’t seen a need.