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niyr

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  2. Word of Wisdom question

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

    There is a story of President McKay being served rum cake and indulging enthusiastically, to the consternation of his entourage; whereupon he declared that the WoW prohibited *drinking* alcohol, not *eating* it.

    Those who know me know I’m not typically a fan of using such legalistic gnat-straining when discussing which Gospel-relates behavioral standards one might be justified in ignoring.  As for me personally, I choose not to eat coffee or alcohol.  But given the conflicting precedent, I have a hard time getting too offended when I see another Church member eating rum cake, or Flemish stew, or mocha ice cream.

    A - it's a story

    B - alcohol cooks out, so he wouldn't have been ingesting any alcohol. 

  4. Need help re. Plan of salvation

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted


    Death, Spiritual

    See also Damnation; Devil; Fall of Adam and Eve; Hell; Salvation; Sons of Perdition

    Separation from God and His influences; to die as to things pertaining to righteousness. Lucifer and a third part of the hosts of heaven suffered a spiritual death when they were cast out of heaven (D&C 29:36–37).

    Spiritual death was introduced into the world by the Fall of Adam (Moses 6:48). Mortals with evil thoughts, words, and works are spiritually dead while still alive on earth (1 Tim. 5:6). Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ and by obedience to the principles and ordinances of the gospel, men and women can become clean from sin and overcome spiritual death.

    Spiritual death also occurs following the death of the mortal body. Both resurrected beings and the devil and his angels will be judged. Those who have willfully rebelled against the light and truth of the gospel will suffer spiritual death. This death is often called the second death (Alma 12:16; Hel. 14:16–19; D&C 76:36–38).



    Elder Nelson, April 1992 General Conference

    Quote

     

    But there is another type of separation known in scripture as spiritual death. (See 2 Ne. 9:12; Alma 12:16; Alma 42:9; Hel. 14:16, 18.) It “is defined as a state of spiritual alienation from God.” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1954–56, 2:217.) Thus, one can be very much alive physically but dead spiritually.

    Spiritual death is more likely when goals are unbalanced toward things physical. Paul explained this concept to the Romans: “If ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Rom. 8:13.)

    If physical death should strike before moral wrongs have been made right, opportunity for repentance will have been forfeited. Thus, “the [real] sting of death is sin.” (1 Cor. 15:56.)

    Even the Savior cannot save us in our sins. He will redeem us from our sins, but only upon condition of our repentance. We are responsible for our own spiritual survival or death. (See Rom. 8:13–14; Hel. 14:18; D&C 29:41–45.)

     

     

  6. Does the Transgender Fish Kobudai Challenge What We Know About Gender?

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

    Sigh.

    I don't even know why I bother with this when you're completely just missing the conversation.  Like I told the OP, we still have to go through the discussion of whether the fish kobudai would be resurrected before we can discuss whether it has an eternal gender.

    Not really. You seem to have missed the point where I said that some will be celestialized. That's all I was stating. 

  8. Does the Transgender Fish Kobudai Challenge What We Know About Gender?

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted · Edited by niyr

    5 hours ago, anatess2 said:

    Not necessarily.

    "John heard the words of the beast giving glory to God, and understood them. God who made the beasts could understand every language spoken by them. The beasts were four of the most noble animals that filled the measure of their creation, and had been saved from other worlds, because they were perfect. They were like angels in their sphere. We are not told where they came from, and I do not know; but they were seen and heard by John praising and glorifying God.”

     

    Yes, necessarily.

    Joseph Smith:

    Quote

     

    “John saw curious looking beasts in heaven; he saw every creature that was in heaven,—all the beasts, fowls and fish in heaven,—actually there, giving glory to God. How do you prove it? (See Rev. 5:13.) …

    “I suppose John saw beings there of a thousand forms, that had been saved from ten thousand times ten thousand earths like this,—strange beasts of which we have no conception: all might be seen in heaven. The grand secret was to show John what there was in heaven. John learned that God glorified Himself by saving all that His hands had made, whether beasts, fowls, fishes or men; and He will glorify Himself with them.” (Teachings, pp. 289–91.)

     

     

    Also see D&C 77:2-3

  11. Does the Transgender Fish Kobudai Challenge What We Know About Gender?

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    On 1/18/2019 at 11:20 AM, anatess2 said:

    Dude, we're still even debating whether dogs are eternal... i mean shouldn't we first discuss whether all dogs get resurrected?  I mean Joseph Smith said he wants to be with his horse but will all horses be resurrected?  Will ants?  Mosquitoes?

    In any case... HUMAN gender is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from animal gender.  You would know this if you spend 2 minutes thinking about your 6th grade Science teacher.  If he was worth his salt.

    John saw animals (beasts) in the Celestial Kingdom with Heavenly Father in his vision recorded in Revelation. 

  12. Exaltation and Eternal Life

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    From lds.org on the Kingdoms of Glory:

    Quote

    From another revelation to the Prophet Joseph, we learn that there are three degrees within the celestial kingdom. To be exalted in the highest degree and continue eternally in family relationships, we must enter into “the new and everlasting covenant of marriage” and be true to that covenant. In other words, temple marriage is a requirement for obtaining the highest degree of celestial glory. (See D&C 131:1–4.) All who are worthy to enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage will have that opportunity, whether in this life or the next.

     

    From then Elder Russel M. Nelson in October 2008:

    Quote

    While salvation is an individual matter, exaltation is a family matter.5 Only those who are married in the temple and whose marriage is sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise will continue as spouses after death and receive the highest degree of celestial glory, or exaltation. A temple marriage is also called a celestial marriage. Within the celestial glory are three levels. To obtain the highest, a husband and wife must be sealed for time and all eternity and keep their covenants made in a holy temple.

     

    Elder John A. Widsoe:

    Quote

     

    "...all who enter the celestial glory do not necessarily receive full exaltation therein."

    "Naturally, those who enter the celestial kingdom are of various attainments… Therefore the members of the highest kingdom are also grouped, according to the Prophet Joseph Smith into three “degrees.”"

     

     

    James E. Talmage:

    Quote

    "The three kingdoms of widely differing glories are severally organized on a plan of gradation. The Telestial kingdom comprises subdivisions; this also is the case, we are told, with the Celestial; and, by analogy, we conclude that a similar condition prevails in the Terrestrial. Thus the innumerable degrees of merit amongst mankind are provided for in an infinity of graded glories. The Celestial kingdom is supremely honored by the personal ministrations of the Father and the Son. The Terrestrial kingdom will be administered through the higher, without a fulness of glory. The Telestial is governed through the ministrations of the Terrestrial, by "angels who are appointed to minister for them."" (Articles of Faith, p. 409)

    "There is no claim of universal forgiveness; no unwarranted glorification of Mercy to the degrading or neglect of Justice; no thought that a single sin of omission or of commission shall fail to leave its wound or scar. In the great future there shall be found a place for every soul, whatever his grade of spiritual intelligence may be. "In my Father's house are many mansions," (John 14:2), declared the Savior to his apostles; and Paul adds, "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun and another glory of the moon and another glory of the stars; for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead," (I Corinthians 15:40-42). The Latter-day Saints claim a revelation of the present dispensation as supplementing the scripture just quoted. From this later scripture, (see D&C, Sec. 76), we learn that there are three well-defined degrees in the future state, with numerous, perhaps numberless, gradations. . . . We hold that there is a wide difference between salvation and exaltation; that there are infinite gradations beyond the grave as there are here, and as there were in the state preceding this." (The Story and Philosophy of "Mormonism,", p.131)

     

    Bruce R. McConkie:

    Quote

    "Rewards granted individuals in eternity will vary between and within kingdoms. Only those who are sealed in the new and everlasting covenant of marriage and who thereafter keep the terms and conditions of that covenant will attain the highest of three heavens within the celestial kingdom. (D. & C. 131:1-4.) Inhabitants of the telestial kingdom will differ in glory among themselves "as one star differs from another star in glory.": (D. & C. 76:98; 1 Cor. 15:41.) "Similar variations will exist among inheritors of the terrestrial kingdom." (D. & C. 76:71-79.) [Mormon Doctrine, p.420]

     

  13. The fate of Judas Iscariot

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    John 6:64

    Quote

    64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

    Judas (and others of the apostles) did not believe in Jesus as the Christ. Judas could not have qualified to be a Son of Perdition. 

     

     

    And as for King David, Joseph Fielding Smith helps us out:

    Quote

    Elder Joseph Fielding Smith, commenting on David’s sin, said: “David committed a dreadful crime, and all his life afterwards sought for forgiveness. Some of the Psalms portray the anguish of his soul; yet David is still paying for his sin. He did not receive the resurrection at the time of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Peter declared that his body was still in the tomb, and the Prophet Joseph Smith has said, ‘David sought repentance at the hand of God carefully with tears, for the murder of Uriah; but he could only get it through hell: he got a promise that his soul should not be left in hell.’ Again we ask: Who wishes to spend a term in hell with the devil before being cleansed from sin?” (Answers to Gospel Questions, 1:74.)

    Also see D&C 132:39

    Quote

    39 David’s wives and concubines were given unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the keys of this power; and in none of these things did he sin against me save in the case of Uriah and his wife; and, therefore he hath fallen from his exaltation, and received his portion; and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I gave them unto another, saith the Lord.

    King David will receive his portion, just not the full portion he could have had through exaltation. If you're a Son of Perdition, you don't get any portion.