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AbramM

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  1. Hey. I was talking to 2 LDS people at my college and they didn't believe that they are sinners. Do you believe you're a sinner?

    in Learn about The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints

    Posted

    3 minutes ago, Vort said:

    Your powers of clairvoyance are remarkable.

    I return your warm regards, brother, and sincerely pray that you come to realize that you don't need to be a jerk.

    By the way, you're still avoiding.

    I was never a Jerk towards you I have extended Christ like love and concern towards you. I think you are suffering and I pray you will be relieved from that suffering. I would also recommend you seek help for your mental health. 

    I won't respond to you further as it is wrong to feed one who is ill with their poison. I do hope you seek professional help too. 

     

    God bless

  2. Hey. I was talking to 2 LDS people at my college and they didn't believe that they are sinners. Do you believe you're a sinner?

    in Learn about The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints

    Posted

    5 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

    That is very kind.  I will put your (internet) name on the prayer rolls of the Provo temple next time I’m there, as well.  :) 

    Please don't Jesus is my high priest and he is in Heaven not in Buildings made by human hands. That is where my treasures are stored in heaven. 

  3. Hey. I was talking to 2 LDS people at my college and they didn't believe that they are sinners. Do you believe you're a sinner?

    in Learn about The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints

    Posted

    6 minutes ago, Vort said:

    That's wonderful, but of course it unsurprisingly avoids responding to the point I raised.

    You have no desire to have a discussion with me you have made that clear a few times. I wish you peace and I hope you come to know that you don't have to be antagonizing as a person. Jesus loves you, find your identity in Christ and you won't feel the need to behave this way towards your fellow man. God bless. Go in peace 

  4. Hey. I was talking to 2 LDS people at my college and they didn't believe that they are sinners. Do you believe you're a sinner?

    in Learn about The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints

    Posted

    7 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

    “Encourage”.  

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    But at the end the end of the day, take two believers—one who heeds the “encouragement”, and one who doesn’t.

    Is one of them really any off than the other?

    Oh man the blessing that come when you serve the Lord are always worth it

  6. Hey. I was talking to 2 LDS people at my college and they didn't believe that they are sinners. Do you believe you're a sinner?

    in Learn about The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints

    Posted

    17 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

    This is the difference I’m seeing between Latter-day Saint theology, as compared to your paradigm.  In yours, the approach seems to be to look at one’s sins and shrug and say “well, I’m a sinner and Jesus covered it, so on to the next day; and I know I’ll rise in the resurrection as a better person, so I don’t need to grapple with the fallout of what I’ve done or try to do better going forward, except insofar as I may find doing so to be personally fulfilling due to my material circumstances or my idiosyncratic sense of altruism.”  The LDS approach seems to be more along the line of “Yes, I sin.  Call me a sinner—whatevs.  I’ve known that for years.  But I’m not going to perseverate on it.  It’s my job to work hand-in-hand with Jesus to become less of a sinner now and try to contain the consequences of my fallen nature, rather than standing idly by while my nature continues to degenerate and innocent third parties suffer for my reprobate acts; and the further along I get in that process now, the better off I’ll be on the long run.”

    I don't know how you came to this conclusion. I will always sin yes. That does not mean I sin and think oh well. Do you believe you are under God's Law? Do you love God and love your Neighbor ? Are you aware of how the Lord Jesus fulfilled the Law of Moses? 

    There is so much in the bible to encourage us to do better. Matthew 25 verse 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

    I wake up every day and try to love my neighbor more and try to love God more. I don't wake up with the mindset of I'm going to sin less today. But by loving my neighbor more and God more I will naturally sin less. That is the entirety of the law brother. 

  8. Hey. I was talking to 2 LDS people at my college and they didn't believe that they are sinners. Do you believe you're a sinner?

    in Learn about The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints

    Posted

    5 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

    Again:

    See that the concept you are preaching here is already totally believed.  You're literally preaching to the choir here.  

    Can you acknowledge that you hear this and understand it?

     

    I understand I just wish to encourage you to not be fearful of telling people you're a sinner. Lots of times the Devil makes Christians seem perfect to non believers and we play along with it, but that isn't right it's important people know we are just sinners with a hope in Jesus Christ.

    I went to a revival in Oklahoma last year and I took my friend with me who wasn't a believer and at the end the preacher said come up and tell me what you want from God. My friend went up and said " I want to be like Abram". I was like no you don't want to be like me I'm a sinner, you want to be like Jesus. Sometimes people close to us think we are perfect and that's why God chose us and it is our job to tell them that we are sinners just like them the only difference is our faith in Christ. 

  9. Hey. I was talking to 2 LDS people at my college and they didn't believe that they are sinners. Do you believe you're a sinner?

    in Learn about The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints

    Posted

    4 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

    The bold part is offensive.  

    Do not confuse 1) not having the culture of using a certain phraseology and 2) not taking any part of scripture seriously.

    I think if the Words of Paul the Apostle have an impact on you then I urge you to step out of you cultural norms and refer to yourself as a sinner. I'm sure it will encourage someone a friend or a family member, who just needed to hear a fellow believer identify as a sinner saved by grace. Especially, if in your culture it is rare I bet there is someone around dying to hear it! 

  10. Hey. I was talking to 2 LDS people at my college and they didn't believe that they are sinners. Do you believe you're a sinner?

    in Learn about The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints

    Posted

    1 minute ago, Jane_Doe said:

    The phrase "I'm a sinner" is pretty distinctive Baptist/Evangelical culture.  Other groups (including LDS Christians) just don't have that cultural phrase.  There's still that acknowledgement that a person does regularly screw up, sin, & need repentance, and the fact that we should be striving to follow Him and do better.  But not the cultural phrase "I'm a sinner".  

    I think we get it from the Apostle Paul . I guess it just depends on people, personally when Christians I admire remind me they are a sinner it's encouraging and when I remind myself that Paul reffered to himself as the chief of sinners if encourages me. If Paul's words do not have that impact on you then I understand. 

  11. Hey. I was talking to 2 LDS people at my college and they didn't believe that they are sinners. Do you believe you're a sinner?

    in Learn about The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

    There is a lot of misunderstanding around the phrase "I'm a sinner".  It's not an LDS-Christian-cultural phrase, and LDS Christians are misunderstanding what you mean when you use it.  Hence, esntailly you ask question A, they hear question B and respond to question B, which isn't the answer to question A you meant to ask.

    Why don't you refer to yourselves as sinners though? 

  12. Hey. I was talking to 2 LDS people at my college and they didn't believe that they are sinners. Do you believe you're a sinner?

    in Learn about The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints

    Posted

    13 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

    That's because you're misunderstanding and getting caught up on cultural words.  If you phrase the question as "do you believe that you will still have the inclination to sin, and still commit some sins that need repenting of until the day you die", you'll get a 100% chorus of "yes, of course".  

    What did I misunderstand? I literally just said you don't like to refer to yourself as a sinner  which is fine . I think that when the Apostle Paul refers to himself as the chief of sinners in 1 Timothy 1 15, it's incredible and so encouraging to me. That I am more than happy to refer to myself as a sinner, if it will encourage other and besides it encourages me. If you don't want to that is fine I'm not saying everyone has to wear a t-shirt saying I'm a sinner saved by grace. But it sounds like we agree that we are all sinners

     

  14. Hey. I was talking to 2 LDS people at my college and they didn't believe that they are sinners. Do you believe you're a sinner?

    in Learn about The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints

    Posted

    4 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

    What trips some of us up is the incongruity between claiming to have “overcome” sin while, in the next breath, acknowledging that you still sin, and are likely to do so for the rest of your life, and (implicitly) that you have no obligation or expectation that the situation will improve before the resurrection.  To lots of us, it seems you are really just saying that you can do whatever you want and Jesus will let you get away with it; and that the only really damnable activity in this world is affirmatively trying to avoid sin because doing so constitutes a rejection of God’s grace.

    You misunderstood me, I have overcome the wages of sin which is death through my faith in Jesus Christ. However, I still sin because I'm a fallen person same as you. Every night when I go to bed I acknowledge that I did not Love God properly today and I did not Love my neighbor with a Christ like love today. Yet in the morning I wake up with thanksgiving in my heart because I am saved and as it says in Lamentations 3 

    22 It is of the Lord's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.

    23 They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness.

    Every day is a clean slate with the L9rd when you are saved and are trying to be better. Do you know the story of Jesus and the Fig Tree in Matthew? 

    I don't want to be like that Fig Tree that Jesus destroys I want to bare fruit in my life that pleases the Lord. Will I do that some days? Yes. Some days I won't because I'm not perfect and in this life I never will be, but I want to live God's Law the best I can. 

      

  16. Hey. I was talking to 2 LDS people at my college and they didn't believe that they are sinners. Do you believe you're a sinner?

    in Learn about The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints

    Posted

    5 minutes ago, Vort said:

    Thanks for the profound insight, friend.

    Mods, don't you think you should do something about Mr. Awesome here lecturing Latter-day Saints about the incorrectness of their beliefs, and on the "Learn about the Mormon Church" subforum, no less?

    I don't think you can point out anywhere where I have said anything against your beliefs. 

  17. Hey. I was talking to 2 LDS people at my college and they didn't believe that they are sinners. Do you believe you're a sinner?

    in Learn about The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints

    Posted

    17 minutes ago, Manners Matter said:

    Have I sinned, yes but I wouldn't refer to myself as a 'sinner' just as I wouldn't refer to myself as a jerk, a nobody, an idiot, etc. Negative labels aren't helpful or encouraging. 

    There isn't a free pass for anyone even if they consider themselves saved.

    (re: your Ex - hope you're doing ok given that you obviously called things off)

    Ma'am I think that being honest about being a sinner is not shameful. 1 Timothy 1: 15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Paul was encouraging us and we should do the same with ourselves by acknowledging we are sinners and the same to others by saying we are sinners.

     

    The good news is it works both ways. I used to have a top that said "God loves everyone but I am his favorite" and on the back it said "So are you". You are God's favorite as am I and so it that guy Vort who is antagonizing me. 

    We can say we are sinners and we are saved and we are God's favorite all at once :)

    I'm doing okay thank you. Time is a great healer and so is Christ 

  18. Hey. I was talking to 2 LDS people at my college and they didn't believe that they are sinners. Do you believe you're a sinner?

    in Learn about The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints

    Posted

    8 minutes ago, Vort said:

    Folks, @AbramM simply knows way more than we do, and is enlightened—some would say "woke"—beyond our poor ability. This is why he is qualified to get on the "Learn about the Mormon* Church" subforum and lecture us about our improper doctrine.

    *Isn't it time we renamed the forum?

    Take the hint man and be quiet. I have not said anything about your doctrine. 

  20. Hey. I was talking to 2 LDS people at my college and they didn't believe that they are sinners. Do you believe you're a sinner?

    in Learn about The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints

    Posted

    6 minutes ago, Alaris said:

    This difference in perspective is also why we don't go around calling ourselves sinners as our destiny is to overcome sin entirely through Jesus Christ - and to perfect ourselves through Him (which won't happen in this life. This life is but a step on that path.)

    I have already overcome sin through my faith in Christ. Johm 8 : 34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 

    The curse of sin has no power over me, the Lord Jesus set me free. Hallelujah! That doesn't mean I am not a sinner. I will always sin. 

    14 minutes ago, Alaris said:

    I think another good example here is many protestants celebrate the death of Jesus Christ where members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints focus on his life - and the fact he is alive today

    Hmm, I don't think you have anywhere the grasping of protestant belief you are claiming to have. We celebrate the atonement (his death) and the victory over the grave ( his resurectiton).  We believe he is alive today. Of course I celebrate his sacrifice if Christ hadn't of died I'd be going to Hell and if he wasn't resurrected is be going to Hell. So yes I celebrate Christ's death. 

     

    18 minutes ago, Alaris said:

    hink you meant "I always want to be convicted of my sin" - An eternal convict?

    As long as I am a sinner I do want to be convicted of my sin. And I pray God will be merciful to me and always convict me of my sin. Lest I fall short in the latter days. 

  23. Hey. I was talking to 2 LDS people at my college and they didn't believe that they are sinners. Do you believe you're a sinner?

    in Learn about The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints

    Posted

    5 minutes ago, Alaris said:

    You have to admit though that, "I am a sinner" is a bit defeatist, like, "Oh well.... we all sin so we can't really help ourselves." In fact, if we're coming from a Baptist point of view, then this is exactly the point. You will sin no matter what so you better get saved. This line of thinking does not apply to LDS as we believe salvation requires effort - continual repentance - and though we don't expect to be perfect (aka not a sinner) in this life, we do believe we must never give up and must never become complacent but remain vigilant to the end. Of course, we struggle with this perfection complex as is evident in populations with high concentrations of LDS.

    It depends on how you look at God's Law God gave me his Law to show me my need for a Saviour. God didn't give me the Law to condemn me to Hell. Me admiting my sin isn't defeatest, because sin will destroy you. Me being convicted of my sin is a Mercy from God  if I had no conviction of my sin then I would not be saved. So if me admitting I am a sinner makes me a defeatest to you then hallelujah, I always want to be convicted of my sin. 

    Hmm, it doesn't sound to me like you know the Baptist point of view at all, which is fine you're not a Baptist. I do believe in perseverance of the saints by the way. 

  25. Hey. I was talking to 2 LDS people at my college and they didn't believe that they are sinners. Do you believe you're a sinner?

    in Learn about The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints

    Posted

    6 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

    NO!!!!  That is totally incorrect!!  You're completely misunderstanding things, to the level of actually being offensive.  

    There is 100% the acknowledgement that each of us gets dirty every single day.  But there's also that acknowledgment that we get cleaned on a very regular basis too.  So asking "are you dirty" can cause a lot of miscommunication.  Yes, I get dirty, but yes I get clean (through Christ).  The folks on campus would have told you the exact same thing if they understood what you were asking.

    Okay I didn't mean to offend you by calling you a sinner I even said that in my question that I'm not trying to offend anyone. I'm honestly not trying to convince anyone that they are a sinner because God's Law should do that, nobody should need anyone to tell them they are a sinner if they believe God's Law. 

    The people I spoke to on campus clearly said that it is possible to follow all the commandments. That is when I told them that they don't understand God's Law. If you believe you can ever get to a point in this mortal life where you are free from sinning, then please tell me why you believe that. If you don't believe that then that's fine, I don't believe that either.