Dravin

How does one determine what is scripture?

Think of it this way: Back when the Law of Moses was in effect eating pork was something that would get you condemned, so was failing to circumcise your son. The law of Moses was fulfilled eating pork and not getting circumcised was no longer condemned. An additional example is when the apostles are first told to not enter gentile cities to preach and then after the resurrection being told to preach the gospel to every creature. So Peter, preresurrection if he had gone to say Athens to preach he would have been under condemnation (for not obeying the Lord's commandment to keep it to the children of Isreal), afterwards if he had refused to teach the gospel to everyone after having been told to, again condemnation. So basically it boils down to, it doesn't matter what the commandments of God are, obey them, if you aren't you are sinning which is what Brigham Young's stance (and he wasn't known for tiptoeing around sensitivities) was.

Doctrine and Covenants Section 132 and Official Declaration 1 respectively. Edit: The Doctrine and Covenant is revelation received by Prophets of God (the head of the LDS Church), mostly Joseph Smith though not exclusively.

Bob asks his friend Fred to watch his pet gorilla while he goes on vacation. Before the big day Bob takes the time to explain to Fred the does and don't of gorilla care, after a couple hours of this Bob warns Fred, "No matter what you do, don't touch him." Bob goes on his vacation and Fred does a fine job until his curiosity starts to get out of control, "Why can't I touch the gorilla? What will happen?" he starts thinking. After a couple days of this Fred can't take it any more, he walks up to the gorilla and touches him on the shoulder. The gorilla starts going crazy, beating on its chest, yelling and stomping on the ground. Fred runs... and runs... and runs... No matter what he does however he can't shake the gorilla, its staying right behind him. Fred is getting exhausted at this point and before to long his lungs burn and his legs are rubber, he decides death by Gorilla doesn't sound as bad as running himself to death. So he stops and turns to face the gorilla. The gorilla beats its chest in triumph touches Fred on the chest and says, "You're it!"

Actually, my favorite response when I asked how do you know the Bible is the word of God was, "It says so." to which my response was, "So does the Book of Mormon." He didn't find the argument any more compelling then I did.

Or sat in on many Elder's Quorum or High Priest's meetings, particularly the lessons on women and motherhood. At least in my experience if one sex is held as superior (generally speaking, and in the US) in the minds of church member's its women, not men. And as for people thinking men think the priesthood makes them better than women, my experience is the sentiment is that men need the priesthood so they have a shot of being equal to their spouses.

That's art though, from what I understand drawings (or what have you) aren't covered, if one was inclined one could draw pictures of teenage (or younger) kids all one wants as no children were harmed in doing so (as opposed to actual pictures) is the theory. Kinda like how one can write erotic fiction about rape but one can't actually perform it or one is in trouble. Also, at least from my understanding, legally speaking nude != porn (think Mother taking pictures of little Timmy in the tub), so even if art was covered unless the statue is sexual explicit/suggestive then it still wouldn't be covered. The tricky thing about this is there is no hard legal line between just nude and pornography: This article talks about it, and is where I pulled the quote.

Isn't the priesthood/power of God the only power that can bind on earth and heaven? If Poligrip binds on earth it stands to reasons that such binding properties will be null and void.

I'd rather see Book of Mormon: Total War... I suppose one could just mod the Americas campaign from Medieval: Total War 2 - Kingdoms. Hmm...

It is about as unfancy as one can get but a peanut butter sandwich works great, doesn't even require any refrigeration like so many other things would, that's not everyone's cup of tea though.

Okay, I read quite a few pages and didn't notice the following, if they were already posted please forgive me. If pro is the opposite of con, what is the opposite of progress? If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat? If vegetable oil is made from vegetables, what is baby oil made from? If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy all her friends?

Technically not true, but I imagine if you did your very hardest (abstinence) your relationship as a married couple would suffer, so I certainly don't blame you for not going that route.

While I can agree with the concept (busy != effective), I disagree that 100% home teaching fails to lift up a single person. Unless you are talking about the, "All I care is if its a countable visit" mentality some have: Borrowed a cup of sugar, asked if I can help, HT done for the month! Then I'll agree, yeah that probably doesn't lift most folks, that said I've never actually run into anyone like that personally. Retention has been mentioned, one of the keys to retention of new converts is contact with their new ward and friendship, which is one of the things Home Teaching (and Visiting Teaching) is supposed to help with though not be the sole fulfiller of. HT/VT done properly certainly lifts people.

If for no other reason then the fact that all men will be resurrected did Christ die for us all. Its not limited to that certainly, I for one agree with Book Of Mormon Warrior's statement, so in that sense he died for all as well, but it tends to be an overlooked aspect.

Molotov Cocktails*. Use without consumption, its a win/win!:) *Yes, I know whiskey or what have you probably wouldn't work well (or at all), but its a nice thought.

Here: I can understand the whole referring to the Sunstone half of the comment (interpretation unless from a Prophet/Apostle is always up to debate). I wasn't even necessarily trying to say that Sunstone falls into the condemnation of the scripture* (haven't read it, thus I've not received my own spiritual witness one way or the other), just that it is supposedly learning, which is good if one listens to the council of God, but bad if one doesn't. Certainly nobody is claiming that all writings/speakings concerning the Gospel that are termed intellectual are good, or are they?. So for somebody who believes the Book of Mormon and believes that the council of God is to heed the promptings of the Holy Spirit then the process Maxel is using isn't really questionable (heed the Spirit when it prompts). The doubt is whether its actually the spirit or not. Thing is, just as Maxel has no proof he can show on a message board that it is (the Spirit), so does Snow have none to prove that it isn't, heck technically Snow can't prove that he hasn't felt the exactly same thing. He can claim he hasn't, just as Maxel can claim he has in the end all either side has is witness, not proof. *Admittedly that may not have been clear.

I have a testimony, its alive and well and I trust the promptings of the Holy Ghost. I'd even go as far to say that I know Christ is my Lord and Savior (despite what Snow may claim to the contrary). If you read earlier in the thread I was backing Maxel up. I was taking Snow's line of reasoning and running with it, mostly his demand of proof that that scripture is inspired. If a Mormon doesn't accept scriptures out of the BoM I'm not sure why an appeal to the additional scripture is gonna do anything. It'd be like quoting President Monson to a member of the Church of Christ.

Oh, okay. Show me the proof that, " "... the glory of God is intelligence..." and, "And, verily I say unto you, that it is my will that you should hasten to translate my scriptures, and to obtain a knowledge of history, and of countries, and of kingdoms, of laws of God and man, and all this for the salvation of Zion. Amen"" is talking about Sunstone. Ah, but do you have proof that Christ was inspired when he gave the sermon on the mount and that it applies? I mean hard proof, none of this namby pamby Holy Ghost stuff.

While I know the idea is to not scrub, pumice is a wonderful thing.

Its called the Holy Ghost, its supposed to warn us. 2 Nephi 9:28-29 28 O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish. 29 But to be learned is good if they hearken unto the counsels of God. One of the councils of God is to follow the promptings of the Holy Spirit. Intellectual pursuit of the Gospel is fine, it's a good thing (I enjoy it). However if that pursuit results in a loss of the spirit its bad, if Maxel feels spiritual darkness when reading an intellectual pursuit of the gospel I for one wouldn't be first in line to mock him, actually I wouldn't even be in line to mock him.

The first step of missionary work for members is not dropping off a box of chocolates and a Book of Mormon on somebody's doorstep. Dropping off a BoM on some random person's doorstep is less effective then tracting and that is ridiculously ineffective. The first step is developing a relationship that doesn't revolve solely around trying to get somebody to convert. I think some people have this concept that as members they aren't doing missionary work if they aren't challenging everyone in their neighborhood to meet with the Missionaries and be baptized. If your friend next door asks you what's up with all the ruckus about the Big Love and you explain the purpose and sacredness of temples or what have you, guess what! You just did missionary work! Heck, if you simply become friends with non-members given time missionary opportunities are going to present themselves, and most of it (if not all for some people) is simply gonna be answering those random questions that tend to pop up, or being a good example of the believers. If such can't be deduced from my above comments, that is missionary work (IMHO). I imagine at some point why you are into food storage might come up, perfect opportunity to do some (more) missionary work (that being explain some about your beliefs, not commit them to baptism).

Look up "Latter-Day Night Live'. Some people find it hilarious, me I only really liked a couple of sequences.

You know, one good thing has come out of all of this. I have more sympathy for Islam and it not liking the cartoons depicting Muhammad. Not for how they reacted mind you but the idea of sacrilege.

Wouldn't that be? نحن نؤمن بالل* or what ever the roman character equivalent would be. I mean if you are gonna just translate a phrase you might as well go all out. * This is an internet translation, so may or may not be correct. P.S. I always found it amusing the thought that Missionaries sent to any Arabic speaking countries would come home and bare their testimonies in their mission language would possibly use the word Allah when doing so and how some people would react to the usage of that word... I am however easily amused.

That just made the following exchange at a 'drug' store pop into my head. Timmy: I'd like some crack please. Clerk: Can I see some ID? Timmy: Er.... I wonder what the warnings on the back of a box of methamphetamine would be...