Ray A

That has always been conditional: Ether 4:

Try 2 Nephi 9: 28-29:

I have indeed been controversially around LDS-related boards since 2000, almost all of them, but I'm winding down now. Enough love/hate relationships in that wake. The addiction for communication and expression hasn't waned much, but I'm much more relaxed in the last six months after "retiring" from 28 years of child raising and living on my own. Forums are a terrible distraction on days off because I get so little done domestic-wise, and I keep saying "this time I'm going to stay off boards and change the car oil and filters!". Never happens. I like the more civil environment here (and the board format), with rules, because when there are no rules, the real larrikin in me comes out! And I can be a real pest. I need mods pointing a metaphorical gun at my head to keep me under control. Note to self: Stay off LDS Talk today. Do shopping, laundry, etc., before work this afternoon. Behave self.

Perhaps transportation might be a better idea. We need some more larrikins in Oz.

I think Bruce McConkie was a great and loyal man with a fervent testimony. His book Mormon Doctrine was not "torn apart" by critics, but by Elder Mark E. Petersen, who made 1,067 corrections to it. Elder Marion G. Romney also wrote this: The story of why it continued to be published is much longer. Maybe next time.

It's not fascist. It's natural. But we have to consider options that are realistic, and not based on natural revulsions, which I feel too. The fact is that the "drug war" has failed. In the end, if your family is not affected, then consider yourself blessed. But for those affected, we have to devise means to keep them from drug predators who will prey on their naivety. We can't do this unless we bring them under the same laws that govern civilisation. The police in some circumstances barter with them, for "hush money", and thus the corruption is widespread. If a minor goes into a store and asks for a packet of cigarettes, most sellers will ask for identity, and can be fined thousands of dollars for selling to underage patrons. But a minor, without your knowledge, can get drugs without any proof of age, and the seller is an unregistered "business" who probably operates out of some backyard, and could even be selling mowed grass from his backyard as "marijuana", and your child will know no different. Bad batches of drugs kills many, why? Because there's no regulation on what they sell! It could be cow dung mixed with backyard grass and heroin. Regulation can stop this abuse, or at least check it to some degree. It's not the pefrect option, but certainly the lesser evil. What do you think?

No problem. I respect different opinions, and I'm open to any alternative ideas. BTW, I think you're a good man, and whatever your opinion, I know you offer it in all sincerity.

You have a point worth considering there. In my experience those who turn against Mormonism only become more hardened and rebellious. Their hatred multiplies in frightening proportions, year by year. But not all are like this. It's sometimes hard for me to discern.

I think this may be it?

skalen, you should report this pharmacist to the authorities. That way you have full legal recourse, because there's a law prohibiting the sale of drugs to minors, or anyone without a doctor's prescription. If your kid buys drugs from a dealer (and from what you say I have no reason to think they would), and he/she dies from taking that drug, you have no legal recourse, because standards and laws have no meaning. This is a lawless industry which preys on the gullible, with no legal parameters. It's like allowing your children to go to a witch doctor, and when they get sick, or, heaven forbid, die, you can do absolutely nothing. If a drug dealer administers an overdose to your child, he goes scott free. If a certificated doctor does the same, he has to answer to the courts.

If your kid goes into a liquor store, will the owner ask for identity before purchase? If your kid goes to a drug dealer, will the drug dealer ask for identity before purchase?

Please elaborate. What alienated you?

Totally agreed. 100% So do we just ignore the critics and condemn them to hell? Are they not worth our time and effort? Should we not debate in the "marketplace" of opinions? Is FARMS totally useless? Is "apoligetics" totally useless? Is reason totally useless? You have been enlightened by the Holy Spirit? What about those who haven't? Some "gentle persuasion" needed, on their terms, maybe? Shall we condescend? Or just wipe them off to hell because they are evil?

It's tongue in cheek. I believe Joseph was exactly who he said he was. And I also believe that his mind soared above the rest of his generation. But, I'll now be accused of "idolatry". LOL.

At least you're in tuned with the Prophet's main sentiments. The "genius" who created the "fraud" of Mormonism.

I'll give you one quote, but will look for more:

I'm glad we agree. :)

I think there is. The prison system only makes criminals more hardened. They go in for "reform", but come out worse. And as has been pointed out, it's because they find association in prison with "likeminded" people, who hate the government and society. So they exit the system with more rage. They need to be exposed to better influences, and to meet and understand the consequences of their actions by coming face to face with the people they affected. That way, they might think twice, "would I want someone doing this to me?" That is what Joseph Smith taught. Shame is the most effective "weapon" in reforming people.

I think it was Wilford Woodruff who first gave this statement. It seems to be based on D&C 107: My opinion is that the president can make a mistake, and it need not necessarily be corrected immediately. If the mistake is serious enough to warrant immediate removal from office, then provision is made for that in this revelation. Teaching doctrine that may later be shown to be incorrect, isn't necessarily covered by this revelation. Prophets have opinions, and those opinions may or may not be correct. Having an opinion isn't an excommunicable offence, even when it comes from a prophet.

Laurel, I've made some friends online too (on LDS boards). But in 8 years of posting I've only met one - Dan Peterson. And contrary to Internet hearsay, he doesn't eat much, and doesn't like donuts! LOL. I'm usually prayerful. Always optimistic. BTW, I like your poetry. It's very passionate and meaningful.

That's kind of s-c-a-r-y. I usually only go online to argue with anti-Mormons.

One week on night shift with me will have their values quickly reassessed. "Oh, was I like that?"

D&C 1 So, three strikes, not 77? And what is the Lord's punishment? Withdrawal of the Spirit, not physical death. He gave Noah's generation 120 years to change. Traveler, just out of interest, do you see any of your concepts being supported by the Book of Mormon?

Train, I'm going to PM you a video of what my brother says about this. I'm not posting it as it could be seen as "advertising".

Well, the Church has had the answer through its leaders for about 45-plus years now, when they first introduced Family Home Evening. I think they saw, very early, the tidal wave coming. But divorce and family breakdown occurs within the Church too, and probably more often now than in previous years. The Church can't do anything but keep reinforcing this message. Individuals will decide the course of their lives, and we all have to live with the consequences of our decisions.