SeattleTruthSeeker

Actually, it is the later manuscript evidence of Mark 16 that carry on the now "long ending of Mark", whereas there are earlier manuscript evidences that do not carry on the Longer Ending of Mark. The two powerful scriptures on baptism are Acts 2 and Romans 6.

There is going to be an inevitable form of conflict when you communicate your concerns to your roommate. How you can do this effectively is entirely up to you. My suggestion is this: Let your roommate know you would like to take her out for lunch on Saturday, or Dinner. Let her know you would like to talk with her, and get to know her better. Once you get a time set up, commit to it. Then, instead of talking with her about this guy creeping you out, here is a more appropriate conversation could be done relaying your own feelings. "You know, the other night "P" came over and it was midnight. Not knowing anyone here, except you and the few people from Church, I did not know what to do. He was very persistent and I became very uncomfortable." What you have done here is shared your own personal feelings with your roommate without putting her on the defensive. It is a more casual conversation where you are effectively communicating your own hesitations about the guy and your own misgivings without saying directly "that guy is creeping me out and he is giving me chills, and there are red flags going up everywhere." You also are letting her know that the time he came over is not a normal time someone comes calling.

Sure, if you want to stand by that. But then, you have to reasonable answer as to how 12 tribes of Israel mathematically are able to be established with 70 Nations. Meaning, you would have to reconcile Deuteronomy 32:8-9 where it reads that when the Most High had set the bounds of the Nations according to the Sons of Israel, that you have to compute how 12 goes into 70 when the Tables of Nations lists 70 Nations. Let us do the math here: 70 nations divide by 12 sons of Israel = 5.8333333333333333333333333333333 This is not possible, mathematically. The table of Nations is listed in Genesis 10, and come from the three sons of Noah - Ham, Shem, and Jepeth. So, unless the author of Genesis is lying, or there is a contradiction between Deuteronomy 32:8-9, or there was a significant change in the passage and that the literal translation is that the Most High divided the 70 nations according the Sons of God, and Jacob is YHWH's Portion (which by the way, is exactly what Deuteronomy 32:8-9 states and you also have to reconcile as to how God would divide 70 nations by 12 sons of Israel, when Israel was not even listed as part of the 70 Nations, and YHWH inheriting Jacob as his nation). So, I actually will trust scholars who have established empirical proof than you who claim that Deuteronomy 32:8-9 was not changed by monothestic jewish monks when they wrote the Masoretic Text.

Interesting that you ask "when was it ever part of the 66"? If you know about the history of the canon of the Holy Bible, you will know that 1 Clement was not ever part of the 66 books of the Bible. However, you are forgetting that prior to the canon of the 66 books, there were considered up to 80+ books that were included in the Bible as canonical books. When we look at the scripture where the Apostle Paul talks to Timothy about Scripture, we understand and know that Paul was referring to the Old Testament. This could be both the Hebrew and Septuagint. One also will discover that the earliest known New Testament document is 1 and 2 Thessalonians, dating to about 50 AD. This predates the earliest known written gospel of Mark (approximately 70 AD). So, the burden of proof is on you to provide reasonable evidence that Paul was referring to 66 Books that would not be canonized until several centuries after he wrote to Timothy.

That is not the issue. I asked you specifically why 1 Clement is no longer part of the 66 Canonical Books when it originally was considered just as much "Scriptural Authority" as Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, et all. Try again. Ah here is one for you: Deuteronomy 32:8-9 as it is handed down in the Masoretic Text. This was changed from a "polytheistic" reference to that of a more "monotheistic". The context does not allow for the change, nor does the historical contextuality of the text allow for the way it currently reads. Scholars have determined that these two verses where changed in an attempt to rid the mention of the "Sons of God" being a literal interpretation of a Council of Gods.

I am going to take a very different approach. This one came from an incident that my wife had with her (now ex) husband when she started breastfeeding their son. He stated that if she could find where Breastfeeding was allowed in the scriptures, then he would believe her. She provided numerous passages. I would suggest talking with the Bishopric and Stake Presidency and ask them this one question: "Show me where in the Church Policy, Standard Works, or General Authority statements that I can't breastfeed my child?" When they can't prove it, site the article of faith 12 12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law. Then show them the law of the land and ask them if they are willing to go against the 12 th article of faith (which is considered scripture) and state that you are to violate the law of the land. If they have further issues, then state that you feel their position of authority is suspect and you do have the option in not sustaining them when it comes to sustain them as leaders of their respective positions.

Sonime - Do you accept the Clementine Epistle to the Corinthian Believers as "Scripture" according to what you have stated in your recent post? If you are not familiar with this, historical analysis has concluded that the Early Christian church included the Clementine Epistle (1 Clement) in their readings and acceptance of Scriptural Authority: Care to explain, that if the 66 Books of the Bible is complete and authoritative, without error, missing books, or contradictions, why the Early Christian believers held 1 Clement in high regards, read from it, taught from it, and accepted it as coming from apostolic authority?

This is for both, myself and my wife. We are pretty busy, however things are taking a toll on myself and my wife. For one, my wife is suffering depression and it is getting worse. She hates her job, she wants to be home with our now 6.5 month old. Right now, I am the stay at home parent. On top of this, we have not had an official date night where it was just her and I - for almost three years now. We both love each other, and are committed to each other. We both are just at the end of our rope because whenever we try to find someone to help us watch our 6.5 month old, we get the following response from the Relief Society president "You are expecting too much of the ward." Because of this, my wife does not feel welcomed in the ward. Her visiting teachers come over and talk about their kids and how they are growing and do not give her messages. We actually had to fight to get her visiting teachers because no one would come visit her for over a year. Those who know me, know that I had left the church and harbored serious ill feelings against the church because of my records never being updated (which btw, they are and I am on an informal probation). On top of looking for work (which is hard to do because I can't go to interviews when we have no one available to watch our daughter), and going to school (which I am four weeks behind in my assignments in one class, have two finals coming up quickly, and am constantly keeping the apartment cleaned and watching out for an on the move little girl so she is not getting into anything). I am starting to feel the pressure myself. I have no one that I associate with because I am home bound all day long and cleaning and have not had any personal time to myself. I am to the point that I want to go to the stake presidency and talk with them about this, about what was told to my wife and I, and how we are being treated. We have not gone to church and I am not liking having to go to Church and lie to people when they ask where is my wife.

Actually that would not be a problem. He could be married and sealed to another woman for all time and eternity without having to have his previous temple sealing cancelled. Unless this has changed. It is my understanding that a woman whose husband has passed away could not be married and sealed to another husband, but could be married in the temple for Time only and still have the protection of the priesthood. In this situation, it then would be who was the more faithful priesthood holder. Again, we do not know all that is on this side of the veil.

Yes, you can have your sealing cancelled. You have to go in and discuss this with your specific bishop. How do I know? My wife and I are both divorced from our previous marriage. She is sealed to her ex husband and she has a child from that marriage. I am not sealed to my former spouse because we never made it to the temple. Before we go through the temple, she will have to get a cancellation on her previous sealing in order for us to be sealed. If you have a child from your previous marriage, your child is still protected under the sealing (despite if your former spouse is living up to the standards or not). My wife was advised not to get her sealing cancelled because of her son. Once we are back in full membership and are able to go to the temple to be sealed to one another, she will then be allowed to have her sealing cancelled. Now, here is my thought, go in with your girlfriend and talk with your bishop about this concern. If she still insists that she will not marry you unless you have your sealing cancelled before you even propose to her, then, in all honesty, she does not respect you, your particular situation and I would just inform her that because of this, you can not in any way marry someone who is refusing to understand and respect the particular position you are in. It is better to deal with this now than to do something you will regret. Even if it means telling her to take a hike in very polite terms and find another person. Trust me, someone who does not respect your position and situation is a person that you should not have close to you as a companion. Why? because if they can't accept and understand and respect you with something like this and work with you and show patience through this entire part of your life and specific circumstances, how are they going to deal with other circumstances that will rise up and challenge your lives together and your marriage? Is she going to demand that she is not going to have anything to do with you if you are laid off and are looking for work and are unemployed for six months? There is deeper issues she has to deal with that may not be known.

I definitely understand how that could happen.

I have always wondered about this as well. While others have given some answers to this, I find that the answer as to why some would not receive a testimony of the Book of Mormon over those who do receive an answer to the Book of Mormon is revealed in 1 Nephi. Nephi had great desires to know about the Mysteries of God. He did not just take what his father said at face value, but went and prayed to seek for himself from the Lord as to whether or not what His father said, relayed, and experienced were honestly from God. Notice that when Nephi was visited, his heart was softened. In order for one's heart to be softened, it has to be hardened. It takes great faith for one to exert belief in something they may or may not receive an answer. It was not a "I want to believe" but a desire to know and a desire to believe. We also know that Laman and Lemuel (Nephi's brothers) had seen angel's, experienced some great miracles in their lives, but still, because of the hardness of their hearts, continually rebelled, ridiculed, and discounted the reality of Truth. So, why do some receive no answer to this while others do? It is because those who come to the Lord with a hardness of Heart, but a sincere faith in wanting a true desire to know of a surety as to the nature of the Reality of the Book of Mormon, are the one's whose hearts will be softened. Those who come to the Lord and pray with a hardness of heart, and not wanting to believe and not having a true and honest real desire in their heart, are the ones that do not receive an answer. Yet, I have prayed with sincerity and real intent, yet I have never received an answer. The problem is, what we have to take into consideration, is that there are many who have received a testimony of the Book of Mormon, have not received a "Heavenly Vision" or a serious spiritual encounter. Some have returned to reading the Book of Mormon and felt an impression, or a "click". Others describe that they felt relieved, wonderful, and felt a sense of belonging. Even still, some describe that as they read the Book of Mormon, participated in the things the Church does, and developed relationships have slowly built their testimony. Those who do not receive a testimony are the ones who look for the "burning in the bosom" or a spectacular audible voice that says "Yes Jimmy it is true". Others may have received an answer and truly discounted it for what it was and reasoned that they had not received a testimony after all. Another way of looking at this is why are there some who realize their need for Christ and become Born Again when someone shares with them the message of hope, and yet the person next to them denies this and goes on their way.

Today, my wife and I went down to the Deseret Industries store in the Seattle, Washington area. There, we were looking for new shirts for me to wear to Church on Sunday. After finding what we needed, I had decided to venture over to the Used Book Section. There, in a small area, I found some significant books that I am wondering if others have on their shelves, heard about, or have had the privilege to read and study from. The Religion of the Latter-day Saints by Lowell L. Bennion, director of the Institute of Religion, fourth edition, 1955 - originally copyrighted in 1940 by Heber J. Grant. Extract from Preface: From this cursory reading, I am under the impression that this was an actual Institute Manual (unlike the ones we have today) for those Latter-day Saint College Students. In fact, this may be the type of manual that Dr. Daniel Petersen may have used in his old college student days (I could be wrong and just making an illfounded guessimation here). Extract from Part 1: Mormon Doctrine - Introduction: The next book that I found is an old Melchizedek Priesthood Quorum manual. Apostasy to Restoration by T. Edgar Lyon. According to the foreword, this book was actually commissioned by the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles had asked T. Edgar Lyon to write and publish this particular manual. The most interesting notation is this: This study manual used, as a reference, a book entitled Apostasy From the Divine Church, by Elder James L. Barker. From what I have read so far, this one manual is going to be a very interesting read and study material. I am hoping to convince my wife to help me purchase the book by James Barker (unless someone has a copy that they would like to loan to me). The Old Testament Prophets by Sidney B. Sperry is an old Gospel Doctrines book that actually is taken from Sperry's published work The Voice of Israel's Prophets. What is interesting about this manual is this: The other two books are Why I Believe: 54 Evidences of the Divine Mission of the Prophet Joseph Smith by George Edward Clark and The Day of Defense by Elder A. Melvin McDonald. Regarding the Latter book: A very wonderful find of used books and they were only a buck or .75 cents a piece.

What BenRaines said.

Masturbation is a form of sexual gratification, and thereby in violation of remaining chaste and pure. Therefore, this is not a typical transgression that you can "pray" as a personal form of confession. In fact, if you have ever gone and done baptisms for the dead, and the Bishop had asked you, "have you ever masturbated" and you answered no, when you have, then it is even more prudent to go in and confess to your Bishop. Not only for the act itself, but also for lying and entering into the temple on false pretenses, knowing you were committing an act of transgression. However, the choice is entirely up to you whether you want to go into your bishop and talk with him.

The problem is that much of these "oppressed" stories are coming from women who, after leaving Mormonism and becoming a Born Again Christian, are the ones who are assisting in this ministry. It all is geared toward Women. Women who are very vulnerable.

Nice, well said. Never underestimate the power of Home and Visiting Teaching.

I would suggest finding a copy of the book by James Talmage called The Great Apostasy. Yes, there has always been Prophets on the Earth. Their responsible to lead and instruct all men. Some prophets come to reveal that which God would want mankind to understand and learn. Other times, prophets are called to lead men out of oppression and slavery, as well as revealing God's commandments and laws. The whole concept of Prophets and Apostles is to understand the nature in which Christ's Church is to be built upon. This concept is based on the fact that Christ said that he will build his church upon Divine Revelation and the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. How does one receive divine revelation without proper authority that is from God? One can't receive divine authority at all. Once the Apostles were persecuted and killed off. There was no one else who could be ordained and fill the capacity of the Twelve Apostles and the Prophet.

I concur also. To me, it is important as to what is being said about you, understand why it is being said, and how to properly respond if what is being said is deceptive and false.

Nice.... lol.

My wife and I had a similar situation like this happen with her son. He is 11 and there is a young girl around his age that gave him trouble. The problem is that the Teacher did nothing about this. My wife talked about it with our home teachers, the primary president, the teacher, etc. So, I told my stepson, 1) Ignore it, 2) inform her politely that you do not like it and to leave you alone, 3) Get the teachers attention and let the teacher know that it is bothering you, 4) if the teacher does nothing and it still persists, in a very authoratitive voice, tell her that if she does not knock it off, you will put her in place and let her know that you will not tolerate being treated like this. He defended himself, and the teacher pulled him out of class saying it is not appropriate. My wife went in and sat with him in the class, when the girl started in on him, my wife took her hand and pulled her out of class and told her that she needed to knock it off or she (my wife), her, and her parents will go to the bishops office and she will have to explain herself. It so happened that a new primary presidency had been called, and one of the lady's very familiar with the situation resolved the issue and we have not had any further incidents.

What you are honestly doing here is two things: 1) You are detracting from the Original Post of this thread. The original post holds the intention of bringing to light a very aggressive and dangerous campaign to Latter-day Saint Women in the Southern Idaho area. In fact, I am keeping tabs on this new "Anti-Mormon" movement and it is gaining a serious speed train in the Pocetallo, Idaho and surrounding area. Mark Cares is making no bones about his campaign. He is after LDS Women, specifically those who are feeling "unworthy". His deception is very dangerous, and I have challenged him on several points on his blogs and he has refused to engage those points. If you are interested in how I have responded and to what extent that I am personally defending the LDS Faith against such deception, you can go to my blog and take a gander. 2) You are intentionally becoming what is known as a Board Nanny. A Board Nanny is a person who is not a moderator, but feels that certain posts, and discussions should not take place here. This is an open forum, many people have responded quite positively and honestly. There is nothing wrong with a healthy dialogue. I believe that many people find these types of conversations interesting, and down-to-earth. Why you have chosen to post your disdain for this discussion, only you know. I do appreciate your zeal, and do understand where you are coming from, and even agree with you in certain respects. However, the purpose behind the quotes (and if you read what I actually wrote) you would understand that they were provided to give an idea of the types of statements that are being made. So, instead of getting upset over the discussion on this thread, google truth in love ministries and Mark Cares, and go to the blogs for LDS Woman and start posting comments (albeit that once you post your comments to LDS Woman's blog, she will delete and prevent you from further responding to her posts because she does not want anyone challenging her from the LDS Perspective). I suggest that you carefully go back and read the very first post, and then respond in a more appropriate way.

I have always equated it with this analogy: You are hired to do a job. The Job requires that you start off at minimum wage. In order to increase your wage, you have to perform and take on new responsibility, you already received the Job without the employer knowing anything about your work ethics, he chose you, he did not have to give you a job, nor did he have to interview you, however he wanted to and desired to. Yet, once you have acquired this job, do you not work for the employer? Of course not, you work, you comply with the policies and procedures, because if you do not, you are fired. Yet, as you work, you find that your employer takes notice, then he offers you an advancement opportunity, higher paying wage, a bit more responsibility, more challenges. You step up and take on these responsibilities, you continue to grow, learn, and increase to the next level, so on and so on. One day, you find yourself moving on to own your own business, doing the same thing you had done the past 30 some years, you retire, or you move into a different position with a different company that does similar work, but is more progressive. Yet, they say this is flawed. So then I ask them the following: "Do you pray?" Yes "Why?" Well, because Christ said we are to pray, to seek after God daily. "Prayer is a work, it requires discipline. If you are saved, why do you need to perform a work like prayer?" It is when you start mentioning things like Praying, Going to your fellow brother or sister in Christ and asking for forgiveness, asking God for Forgiveness for falling into transgression, studying and reading the Bible, showing charity and compassion, witnessing the Gospel of Christ - all of these are works. Yet, they attempt to justify this as being something different than what "Mormons understand". No matter how it is explained to them, they are steadfast into thinking that because Mormonism teaches works, therefore Mormonism denies the power of the Cross - when in reality, they don't realize that much of their "Christian Walk" is entirely based upon simple works of righteousness - that Christ himself told his Disciples that they would do greater than Christ had done.

Worlds without number and the passing of one earth as another earth comes into existence. These two specific verses have taken on a different meaning. Today, in Gospel Essentials class, we were talking about the current lesson - The Creation - and Moses 1:33 and 38 light a bug underneath me. 33: And worlds without number have I created; and I created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten. 38: And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. Why I mentioned this is because of one simple reality. First, verse 33, God revealed to Moses (as Joseph Smith had translated) that God created - through His Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ, many worlds that are without number. Neptune had yet to be discovered (1846) when Joseph Smith translated Moses (as part of the Inspired Version of the Bible). Also, most of the other discoveries of our solar system took place after Joseph Smith had recorded "and worlds without number have I created..." In fact, according to the History and Chronology of the Solar System, we find the following information: Now, some may already know where this discussion is heading. However, I think it puts Joseph Smith in a very real and unique light that I myself have not even considered. Imagine you are in Joseph Smith's shoes. You make a statement. Critics from your life on claim you are a fraud and a phony. They read this particular passage and say - well he has to be a fraud because he says that one of the things lost were statements where God revealed to Moses that there are worlds without number that God has created for his own purpose. And, that when a earth passes, another comes into existence, one eternal round. This is scientifically impossible. Well it was not scientific impossible until 1991 when Astronomers discovered the first Extro-Solar System Planet around a Pulsar: How many of use would venture to say "There will be discoveries of other Solar Systems out there beyond our own Solar System?" I know I would not say anything like this. In fact, the reality that a Extrosolar System planet was discovered in a Pulsar was an unthinkable plausibility in the Scientific community, but yet, here they are faced with the reality that defied their intellectual minds. Yet, since this discovery, many more worlds were discovered. To-date, 131 plus planets in other solar systems have been discovered. According to a National Geographic Article, we read this: It is no longer a question of our own Earth being unique in a vast and unknown universe, it is now a question of "when are we going to discover an Earth Like Planet"? This is just another reason why Joseph Smith could not be considered a fraud. He truly was called of God. What are your thoughts?

But serving God requires WORKS and that just cant happen because you have to rely upon Jesus Christ for everything. If you have to "prove yourself" then you are in spiritual bondage and Christ came to set you free. It is amazing how misunderstood many Evangelicals are - and yet ask them to study the doctrine of Sanctification. You will find that they essentially have to agree that their faith in Christ and God has to be cultivated through scripture study, showing charity, showing Christ like attributes - ultimately Works.