Maverick

I think you completely misunderstood what I was saying. I’m not in any way suggesting that we give up and just consign ourselves to a lesser kingdom. But I do believe that we should recognize that we have to pass through the Telestial and Terrestrial kingdoms in order to get to the Celestial. And we shouldn’t lose hope if we’re struggling to live up to what is expected of us to inherit the Celestial kingdom. We need to pick ourselves up and keep fighting the good fight, knowing that God is not going to give up on us, no matter what. He will always give us another chance to repent and will never cut us off forever. But the sooner we learn to obey him and trust in him completely, the better off we will be.

I don’t believe that the brethren who plainly taught that there will be progression between kingdoms in the eternities and that people will have a chance later to progress to the Celestial kingdom were preaching “vain and foolish doctrines” and telling us to “eat, drink, and be merry...and it shall be well with us; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God." Is this what you believe these brethren were doing? And living Celestial law is very difficult. It’s not easier than Terrestrial and Telestial law. This is clear from the scriptures and the teachings of the brethren. But just because it’s difficult, that doesn’t mean that’s not what we strive for everyday and what we hope to eventually qualify for. Think about what is taught in the endowment. We are currently living in the Telestial kingdom and we need to progress to the Terrestrial kingdom and then later to the Celestial. And there are obviously many levels or degrees in each kingdom. It’s going to be a long process for most. It’s not a check every box in the LDS church and then remain an active card carrying member and you got it made in the shade kind of thing. This is what Joseph Smith said: “You have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves; to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done; by going from a small degree to another, from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you are able to sit in glory as doth those who sit enthroned in everlasting power”

I think I understand human nature very well. And I don’t think that an appeal to human nature is a good reason not teach what many of the brethren have taught on eternal progression hereafter. Currently most members of the church, who believe in permanent placement in a kingdoms of glory with no chance of progression to a higher kingdom are holding out that somehow all will be made right on the spirit world before judgement day. But this belief is highly problematic.

@zil2 and @Still_Small_Voice I don’t believe that there being progression between kingdoms and the possibility for all of God’s children eventually reach the Celestial kingdom over eons of time would cause anyone to procrastinate their repentance in this life any more than knowing that eternal damnation and the suffering in hell for the wicked will eventually have an end, rather than lasting forever. Additionally, the vast majority of those people who will fall short of Celestial glory don’t know about or believe in the kingdoms of glory to begin with. They don’t repent because they don’t believe or refuse to believe. Not because they think they can just work their way out of hell over eons of time in the eternities.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with echoing the words of the brethren who clearly stated that progression between kingdoms of glory is a reality and that all of God’s children throughout the eternities will continue to have the opportunity to progress and eventually inherit the Celestial kingdom. I do however see a serious problem with the notion that progression between kingdoms of glory is not possible and that those who do not qualify for the Celestial kingdom following the conclusion of this mortal probation can never progress to that kingdom and must forever remain in the Terrestrial or Telestial kingdoms. There are two major problems with this notion: 1) This would mean that based on what the scriptures tell us about the three kingdoms of glory and the requirements for inheriting each one, that the vast majority of God’s children will fail miserably in this mortal probation and forever be separated from their Heavenly Parents for all of eternity. The majority would also be forever separated from their Savior Jesus Christ. In my opinion this defeats the entire purpose of the plan of salvation and flies in the face of a loving Heavenly Father who wants all of his children to return to him. Likewise it flies in the face of all of mankind being God’s offspring with the eternal destiny to become like their parent. This is incredibly discouraging. 2) It leads to the belief that God would never allow the vast of majority of his children to remain separated from him forever, so the requirements set forth in the scriptures to inherit the Celestial kingdom must not be true. It must be a lot easier than this. This view leads to complacency and not being truly valiant in the testimony of Jesus, which will ultimately lead to a lot of members of the church, who think they have met the requirements of the Celestial kingdom by checking all the boxes on the covenant path, being very disappointed in the next life.

The scriptures do not say that progression between kingdoms is impossible. Many of the brethren have made statements in support of progression between kingdoms (e.g. from telestial to terrestrial to celestial), not just progression from the lower degree of one kingdom to the higher degree of the same (e.g. the lower terrestrial to the upper terrestrial). Some quotes in favor of progression are below: Brigham Young “None would inherit this earth when it became celestial and translated into the presence of God but those who would be crowned as Gods — all others would have to inherit another kingdom — they would eventually have the privilege of proving themselves worthy and advancing to a celestial kingdom but it would be a slow process.” (In the journal of Wilford Woodruff, 5 Aug 1855) Franklin D. Richards (Quorum of the Twelve) The Savior tells us that the terrestrial glory, or kingdom, is likened unto the glory of the moon, which is not of the brightness of the sun, neither of the smallness nor dimness of the stars. But those others who have no part in marrying or giving of marriage in the last resurrection, they become as stars, and even differ from each other in glory; but those in the terrestrial kingdom are those who will come forth at the time when Enoch comes back, when the Savior comes again to dwell upon the earth; when Father Abraham will be there with the Urim and Thummim to look after every son and daughter of his race; to make known all things that are needed to be known, and with them enter into their promised inheritance. Thus the people of God will go forward. They will go forward, like unto the new moon, increasing in knowledge and brightness and glory, until they come to a fullness of celestial glory. (Journal of Discourses Vol. 25:236, 17 May 1884) J. Reuben Clark, Jr. (First Presidency) I am not a strict constructionalist, believing that we seal our eternal progress by what we do here. It is my belief that God will save all of His children that he can: and while, if we live unrighteously here, we shall not go to the other side in the same status, so to speak, as those who lived righteously; nevertheless, the unrighteous will have their chance, and in the eons of the eternities that are to follow, they, too, may climb to the destinies to which they who are righteous and serve God, have climbed to those eternities that are to come. (Church News, p. 3 , 23 April 1960) B.H. Roberts (Presidency of the Seventy) These are the great divisions of glory in the world to come, but there are subdivisions or degrees. Of the telestial glory it is written: “And the glory of the telestial is one, even as the glory of the stars is one, for as one star differs from another star in glory, even so differs one from another in glory in the telestial world” [D&C 76:98]. From this it is evident that there are different degrees of glory within the celestial and the telestial glories; and though we have no direct authority for the statement, it seems but reasonable to conclude that there are different degrees of glory in the terrestrial world also. It appears but rational that it should be so, since the degrees of worthiness in men are almost infinite in their variety; and as every man is to be judged according to his works, it will require a corresponding infinity of degrees in glory to mete out to every man that reward of which he is worthy, and that also which his intelligence will enable him to enjoy. The question of advancement within the great divisions of glory celestial, terrestrial, and telestial; as also the question of advancement from one sphere of glory to another remains to be considered. In the revelation from which we have summarized what has been written here, in respect to the different degrees of glory, it is said that those of the terrestrial glory will be ministered unto by those of the celestial; and those of the telestial will be ministered unto by those of the terrestrial–that is, those of the higher glory minister to those of a lesser glory. I can conceive of no reason for all this administration of the higher to the lower, unless it be for the purpose of advancing our Father’s children along the lines of eternal progression. Whether or not in the great future, full of so many possibilities now hidden from us, they of the lesser glories after education and advancement within those spheres may at last emerge from them and make their way to the higher degrees of glory until at last they attain to the highest, is not revealed in the revelations of God, and any statement made on the subject must partake more or less of the nature of conjecture. But if it be granted that such a thing is possible, they who at the first entered into the celestial glory–having before them the privilege also of eternal progress–have been moving onward, so that the relative distance between them and those who have fought their way up from the lesser glories may be as great when the latter have come into the degrees of celestial glory in which the righteous at first stood, as it was at the commencement. Thus: Those whose faith and works are such only as to enable them to inherit a telestial glory, may arrive at last where those whose works in this life were such as to enable them to entrance into the celestial kingdom–they may arrive where these were, but never where they are. (New Witnesses for God, 1:391-392) Wilford Woodruff (Member of the Quorum of the Twelve) If there was a point where man in his progression could not proceed any further, the very idea would throw a gloom over every intelligent creature. God himself is increasing and progressing in knowledge, power, and dominion, and will do so, worlds without end. It is just so with us. We are in probation, which is a school of experience. ( Journal of Discourses, Volume 6:120, December 6, 1857) Hyrum Smith (Assistant President of the Church, Church Patriarch, Member of the Quorum of the Twelve) Hiram [Smith] said Aug 1st [18]43 Those of the Terrestrial Glory either advance to the Celestial or recede to the Telestial [or] else the moon could not be a type [viz. a symbol of that kingdom]. [for] it [the moon] "waxes & wanes". Also that br George will be quickened by celestial glory having been ministered to by one of that Kingdom. ( August 1, 1843, transcribed by Franklin D. Richards; Words of the Prophet, pg. 24; CHO Ms/d/4409/Misc Minutes Collection) There are many more similar statements from the brethren out there.

I believe that God will do exactly what scripture teaches, which includes not permitting anyone to enter into a kingdom of glory which they do not qualify for.

I’m no one’s judge, but when we compare the actual requirements set forth in the scriptures for attaining the Celestial kingdom and becoming just like our Heavenly Father is, it is very apparent that the vast majority of the active church membership is not currently at this level.

The comparison of the Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial kingdoms to the sun, the moon, and the stars respectively is obviously figurative. This being the case, I think we need to be careful in trying to make too much of the symbolism. Within the church we focus almost exclusively on the Celestial kingdom and specifically the highest degree of the Celestial kingdom, as this is the ultimate prize. Yet I would be shocked if even 10 percent of the current active membership is keeping the Celestial laws required for this. I would honestly be surprised if even 1 percent is. So we really ought to have a better understanding of conditions in the Terrrestrial and Telestial kingdoms, as this is where I believe the vast majority of us are headed in the next life. Additionally we ought to have a better understanding of how inheriting these kingdoms fits into the grand plan of eternal progression and the work and glory of God to “to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.” (Moses 1:39) I don’t believe that only a tiny fraction of mankind will become as God now is (which requires inheriting the highest degree of the Celestial kingdom). And yet, only a tiny fraction of mankind qualifies for this according to the requirements set forth in scripture. So what this means is that the lower kingdoms of glory and the various degrees within those kingdoms are not permanent conditions. They are stepping stones towards the prize of eventually inheriting the highest degree of the Celestial kingdom and ultimately becoming as our Heavenly Parents now are in the eons of eternity.

Great thoughts and I completely agree. I will just add that I think that there are underlying problems with the church and in the church that I am powerless to help fix, beyond striving to love and serve God and my fellow man to the best of my ability until God sees fit to intervene and clean things up.

Agreed. Such was also the case with the leaders of Jews in the days of Jesus Christ and the years prior to that. Agreed. I agree here as well. And it’s not like there’s anything any of us lay members could do to correct the course of the church, even if we wanted to.

My observation is that there are both problems in the church and with the church. But I firmly believe that in spite of the problems, that this is still the Lord’s church and that the brethren still hold the keys of the kingdom.

You raise an interesting question. I suppose there could be a secondary interpretation to this parable in which all members who have ever been on the rolls of the church since 1830, could be compared to the virgins, but I think it's pretty clear that the parable is specifically speaking about the time of the last days marriage feast when Christ comes to make the faithful saints (wise virgins) his bride. The parable actually doesn't begin with warning that the bridegroom is coming. It begins by stating what the parable is being compared to. 1 And then, at that day before the Son of Man comes, the kingdom of heaven shall be likened unto ten virgins, who took their lamps and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And then later, while all 10 virgins are asleep, there is a cry that goes out that the bridegroom is literally coming, at which point the time to prepare is up. I don't think that those members who aren't even meeting the minimum standard of worthiness (at least outwardly) are among the 10 virgins mentioned when the parable is literally fulfilled. Nor do I think any members who have died in the past are included at that time either. I believe it's just referring to those members who are alive and can reasonably be expecting to be worthy to become the bride of Christ when he returns. It is my belief that there will be those among the foolish virgins who will have to endure the reign of the great beast who will be refined by the experience and will ultimately be permitted to join the wise virgins during the millennium. I believe that one such example is those who are beheaded for refusing to deny Christ and worship the beast mentioned in Revelation 20:4. I also believe that others will be refined by the experience without having to lay down their lives. It will be very interesting to see how it all plays out.

For a long time I understood this prophecy the way that you do, but after further study I concluded that I had it wrong. I believe that the verses you quoted are referring to the righteous being gathered out before the great tribulation and destruction of the wicked commences. If we look at the same prophecy you quoted from JS-Matthew (JST Matthew 24) from Luke 17, we get a clearer picture: 26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. 31 In that day, the disciple who shall be on the housetop and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away; and he who is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32 Remember Lot’s wife. 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 35 Two shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord, shall they be taken? 37 And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is gathered, or in other words, whithersoever the saints are gathered, thither will the eagles be gathered together, or thither will the remainder be gathered together. 38 This he spake, signifying the gathering of his saints, and of angels descending and gathering the remainder unto them, the one from the bed, the other from the grinding, and the other from the field, whithersoever he listeth. JST Luke 17:26-38 My belief is that this prophecy refers to a righteous remnant of the Latter-day Saints being gathered out to build the New Jerusalem, while the wicked are left to endure the tribulation and destruction during the reign of the great beast. A second witness is how the Joseph Smith Translation of the parable of the wheat and the tares switches the order of events from the tares first being bound and burned and then the wheat being taken into the barn to the wheat first being taken into the barn and then the tares are bound in bundles and burned. Matthew 13:30 30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. Compare JST Matthew 13:29 29 Let both grow together until the harvest; and in the time of harvest, I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the wheat into my barn; and the tares are bound in bundles to be burned.

I agree. Though I do wonder to what extent physical preparedness will be a factor in addition to spiritual preparedness.

Obviously if righteous individuals are killed by the wicked in the last days or allowed to die in other ways by God, they will of course not lose their eternal reward. There's an interesting prophecy in JST Revelation 20:4: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. This would suggest that there will be those in the last days who are at least living at a terrestrial level who will be put to death for refusing to deny Christ and worship the beast during the time that he conquers the whole world and overcomes the saints. I agree that the parable of the 10 virgins gives us an idea of how things will play out. So this begs a few questions: Who do the 10 virgins represent? Is it the entire church membership, the active membership, those members who have temple recommends and are in good standing in the church, or somebody else? I believe that it refers to those members of the church who have temple recommends and are in good standing in the church. Who else can truly be considered a virgin, who at least outwardly appears to be pure and holy and can legitimately be anticipating becoming the bride of Christ when he comes? I don't believe that the inactive, less active, and those who don't even meet the minimum standards of worthiness would be referred to as virgins who are awaiting the coming of the bridegroom by Christ. If this is correct and it turns out to be roughly a 50/50 split between the wise and foolish virgins, then less than half of the active church membership will make the cut and be invited to the marriage feast, which in turn is only a small percentage of the overall membership. I think the question is also worth asking, what does it mean that they are asleep? Does this mean that they aren't paying complete attention and are surprised by the Lord's coming? I don't think it means that we can't look at the faithfulness or lack thereof among the active church membership as an indicator of will or won't be ready. But I agree that we need to be very careful in how we judge others. People often put up a façade of righteous who really aren't and there are also those who may be rough around the edges or overlooked for whatever reason who are truly the salt of the earth. I think this remains to be seen. I don't personally feel comfortable counting on this.

My suspicion is that only a small minority of the membership will be spared. A believe that those who profess to know the Lord, but really don't and are therefore blaspheming him in the midst of his house are predominantly active members. Many active members are mostly just going through the motions and aren't very committed to the gospel at all. I would say that only a minority of the active members truly know the Lord. That's just my opinion from what I have observed. As far as the Lord's house in D&C 112 referring to the church membership, here are a few scriptures which I believe show this to be the case: 22 Therefore let my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., say unto the strength of my house, my young men and the middle aged—Gather yourselves together unto the land of Zion, upon the land which I have bought with money that has been consecrated unto me. 30 It is my will that my servant Parley P. Pratt and my servant Lyman Wight should not return to the land of their brethren, until they have obtained companies to go up unto the land of Zion, by tens, or by twenties, or by fifties, or by an hundred, until they have obtained to the number of five hundred of the strength of my house. 34 But verily I say unto you, a commandment I give unto you, that ye shall not go up unto the land of Zion until you have obtained a hundred of the strength of my house, to go up with you unto the land of Zion. D&C 103:22, 30, 34 16 Behold, I have commanded my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., to say unto the strength of my house, even my warriors, my young men, and middle-aged, to gather together for the redemption of my people, and throw down the towers of mine enemies, and scatter their watchmen; 27 And I will soften the hearts of the people, as I did the heart of Pharaoh, from time to time, until my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and mine elders, whom I have appointed, shall have time to gather up the strength of my house, D&C 105:16, 27 There's no doubt in my mind that there will be a war against the Saints (active membership) in the last days. This is spoken of in Daniel, Revelation, and other places in the scriptures. See for example: 19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet; 20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. 21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; 22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. 23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. 24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. 25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. JST Daniel 7:23-25 1 And I saw another sign in the likeness of the kingdoms of the earth, a beast rise up out of the sea and stood upon the sand of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. JST Revelation 13:1-2, 6-7 Of course I don't know how things will happen either. The thought has also occurred to me that the events preceding and following the coming of the Savior to the ancient inhabitants of America, as recorded in the Book of Mormon, could be a type and shadow of the events associated with the Second Coming, but I believe better types are found in Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and the 12 minor prophets. If the destruction in 3 Nephi is a type for the destruction in the last days, then that gives me hope that many will be spared for being "more righteous" than the truly wicked.

In my mind there is no question that the day of burning and vengeance beginning upon the Lord's house is referring specifically to the active membership of the church. Who else could possibly be part of the Lord's house, who profess to know his name but really have not known him and are therefore blaspheming against him in the midst of his house? This prophecy appears to be connected to the parable of the 10 virgins, the parable of the sheep and the goats, and parable of the wheat and the tares, etc. All of which in my opinion are specifically directed at the Lord's covenant people in the last days.

My current conclusion is that the prophesied tribulation and destruction of the wicked prior to the Lord's return in glory are what will come as a thief in the night. And then the righteous who remain will be anxiously awaiting his return in the clouds of heaven.

I agree with the two points you mentioned, but I also believe that there are some additional points which support what I was saying about Christ referring to the wicked majority being destroyed suddenly, while the righteous minority are miraculously spared like in the days of Noah and the flood. Notice how in JS-Matthew (JST of Matthew 24) verse 42 refers to the flood coming suddenly and taking away all of the wicked, where it says: 43 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be. We know that them being taken all away refers to their sudden destruction. The same teachings of Christ about the last days to his disciples from Matthew 24 is also recorded in Luke 17, which provides some additional information. I will quote from JST Luke 17. 26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. 31 In that day, the disciple who shall be on the housetop and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away; and he who is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32 Remember Lot’s wife. 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 35 Two shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord, shall they be taken? 37 And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is gathered, or in other words, whithersoever the saints are gathered, thither will the eagles be gathered together, or thither will the remainder be gathered together. 38 This he spake, signifying the gathering of his saints, and of angels descending and gathering the remainder unto them, the one from the bed, the other from the grinding, and the other from the field, whithersoever he listeth. 39 For verily, there shall be new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 40 And there shall be no unclean thing; for the earth becoming old, even as a garment, having waxed in corruption, wherefore, it vanisheth away; and the footstool remaineth sanctified, cleansed from all sin. I believe that account in Luke 17 makes it clear that the Savior is comparing the sudden destruction of the wicked prior to his Second Coming with the destruction of the wicked by the great flood in Noah's day and the sudden destruction of the wicked by fire in Sodom in Lot's day. In both cases the wicked majority were suddenly completely destroyed, while the small righteous minority was miraculously spared.

I completely agree that the wickedness in the days of Enoch and Noah, with the people of Enoch being protected and the wicked being destroyed by the great flood in Noah’s day, is a type and shadow of what is to come in the last days. When Christ told his disciples about the last days and the destruction of the wicked that precedes his coming in glory, he specifically said that it would be like the flood in the days of Noah.

Very interesting. May I ask where you got this?

I agree that it’s getting awful ugly out there and of course we know that it will get far uglier yet. The two signs you mentioned are definitely ones to watch for. My studies in the past have led me to believe that there will be other major events which happen first. In regards to the prophecy about the rainbow (or lack thereof), I wonder if that means that the we will be in the middle of a worldwide famine in which there is absolutely no rain.

I have watched a few of his videos before and have likewise been impressed with his gospel knowledge and even keel. I haven’t watched this one yet, but will definitely check it out, as well as the timeline on prezi. Thank you!

I’m assuming that you are referring to the promised sifting that is to take place. I agree with you that some (many in my opinion) are choosing evil because they are confused and deceived. It’s makes me cringe when I see active Latter-day Saints make comments on social media or in person that support the LGBTQ agenda and other social and moral issues that are incompatible with the gospel of Jesus Christ. I’m all for treating everyone with respect, dignity, and kindness, but I refuse to join with masses in calling evil good and good evil. I’m a firm believer in tough love and holding the line. I agree that in the end the Lord’s sheep will hear his voice, but a question I have is whether the majority of the church membership will prove to be sheep or goats in the end. Only the Lord knows.