JonboySquarepants

are you saying that you, you personally, do not believe in a heavenly mother?

why wold they do that? aren't lds taught that God is married? that God once was a man and went through his mortal experience just as we are doing, that he married, and fathered our spirits in heaven? why would you be chastised for commenting on a doctrine in which they believe?

nevermind. you're toaist. i should have checked your profile first. :) francine, the lds church believes that we were all born (angels and humans) to our heavenly father and heavenly mother in the premortal existence.

francine, are you lds?

PC, the lds church believes that all of us, angels and humans, are literal spirit children of heavenly father and heavenly mother. that included jesus, the holy spirit, lucifer, and the 1/3 that followed lucifer. so, yeah, i guess you could say that lds church believes we're all of the same species.

willow, the book of mormon says: 32 For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors. 33 And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed. 34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world. 35 For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked. 36 And this I know, because the Lord hath said he dwelleth not in unholy temples, but in the hearts of the righteous doth he dwell; yea, and he has also said that the righteous shall sit down in his kingdom, to go no more out; but their garments should be made white through the blood of the Lamb. 37 And now, my beloved brethren, I desire that ye should remember these things, and that ye should work out your salvation with fear before God, and that ye should no more deny the coming of Christ;" alma 34:32-37 if God says that "Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world," then why do temple work for people that already died? isn't saying they can't accept him after they're dead?

willow, i just wanted to see you say it with the big G's. before, it seemed like you were making a difference between the big and little g's. you said to note the small g's. ----- they are not false gods. they were judges. they were men given the title of god because of their authority over other men and because they were entrusted with the law. the psalm said God gave them that authority. "I have said, ye are gods...", but the whole context of this psalm is that these judges were not being just. read verses 2-4. it's telling them to defend the poor and fatherless and to deliver the poor and needy. this psalm is referring to an elect few, chosen by God, to judge others according to the law.

francine, i wasn't saying it was some sort of payment. i was simply saying that once we are born again, he willing accepts us as his children. i don't think God limits who can or cannot accept Him and His promises. anyone can accept salvation, but we/they have to accept it. it's not a free gift that we just get ever since we are born on earth, we do have to accept it. once we do, we are His.

before i finish reading your post, you are really taking that verse in psalm out of context. it is not referring to godness. it is referring to judges. it is not saying we are godly or gods in the literal sense. we can even look at it this way. you were making a difference between upper case G's and lower case g's. the scripture you quoted uses a lower case g. in the bible, that usually refers to false gods or false idols. if you don't believe me that it's referring to the judges of the time who thought of themselves as gods, ask the other people on this board who are more scholarly than i. ----- willow, do you agree with me when i said that maureen was correct in saying 3 Gods(not the big G). the church says they are 3 Gods. The Father is A God, the Son is A God, and the Holy Spirit is A God(note the big G's). i just want to know if we agree on that small point. because if not, i can give you the church's definition of God. it says it there.

lol, no need to make stuff up. three headed god-figure. the God of the trinity is not a three headed monster. :) whether you recognize it in the bible or not, they believe there is only one God as the bible and book of mormon teaches. they take that literally. lds do not take it as literally. they understand it as one God in purpose. and that's fine. who am i to demand everybody understand everything the same way? the quotes though... "In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints 'do not believe in the traditional Christ.' 'No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.'" (LDS Church News Week ending June 20, 1998, p.7 ) sorry, took me a while to find that quote.

Dale, has the lds church come out publicly stating that a certain artifact or place is evidence for the book of mormon? i know the church believes that the garden of eden was in missouri, but there is no proof of that. what does the church say officially is evidence for the book of mormon? based on the book of mormon, the church can't even create an acurate map that fits anywhere in the americas. there is the limited geography theory and the theory of two cumorahs. what evidence has the church come out with?

willow, your prophets have said they/you don't believe in the same jesus.

what does the book of mormon teach that the bible does not? i don't see anything about baptism for the dead, or the three degrees of glory in the book of mormon. i see the book of mormon over and over again teaching we either go to heaven or we go to hell. i also only ever see the book of mormon teaching that there is only on God, not more than one. were these things not known to the book of mormon peoples?

this is my understanding of us being offspring of God. we are commanded to be born again, through the spirit. once we are born again, we become the adopted children of God. romans 8: 14-16 "14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God" 2 corinthians 6:16-18 "16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." so, i don't think that God and his wife literally created us in heaven as a man and woman create a child. i don't believe that God the father literally came down to earth and slept with mary in order to create jesus, as some of the early church leaders taught. i believe that once a believer is born again and receives in him the spirit of the lord, then he/she is an adopted son/daughter of the lord. then are we His offspring, because we were born again in Him.

Willow, maureen is correct in saying 3 Gods. why do you use lower case g's when the church does not? "When one speaks of God, it is generally the Father who is referred to; that is, Elohim. All mankind are his children. The personage known as Jehovah in Old Testament times, and who is usually identified in the Old Testament as LORD (in capital letters), is the Son, known as Jesus Christ, and who is also a God. ... The Holy Ghost is also a God and is variously called the Holy Spirit, the Spirit, the Spirit of God, etc." (lds bible dictionary) that's how the lds church defines God. note the not small g's. since, in your mind, there is a difference between g's and G's, does this definition set forth by the church change your understanding of the Godhead?

huh? i'm not saying that you will be judging. i'm just asking if that's what the church teachs. i'm not saying it's definate, but is it an accurate guideline?

lol. now armed with that knowledge, i understand it completely! :)

wanderer, i like your quote "Wisdom comes from experience. Experience is often a result of lack of wisdom.", however, i see experience as being a result from trying. you don't learn until you try and all that good stuff.

i don't think she ever thought there was a difference between me saying it and me meaning it.

i scanned but didn't see it. another questoin though, who goes to which kingdom? here's my understanding of it: celestial- the best, most obedient, most worthy mormons. and people who were mentally handicapped and kids under 8. terrestrial- good people and some members who weren't as worthy. telestial- bad people and people who didn't accept the gospel. outter darkness- lucifer, the 1/3 that followed him, murderers, and people who deny God and the holy spirit who first had a full and complete knowledge of the gospel and God. is that correct?

pentium, there is a lot of simple stuff in life. for example, when i had a girlfiend, she was always right. simple as that. when i get another one and hopefully someday a wife, she too will always be right. :)

i'll check through mosiah. i'm not lds so i don't read corinthians as referring to the three degrees. i know it's in the d and c but the d and c wasn't available to the book of mormon peoples. just curious if they knew about the three degrees.

hijolly, ok. i had to recheck the date of section 132. that revelation was giving to j. smith in 1843. why would j. smith need to say that other stuff about only having one with in 1844, if God already told the members that he could have more than one wife?

pentium, i understand what you mean, but at the same time, do you see where i'm coming from? when j. smith claimed that God told him all other churchs were wrong and all their creeds were an abomination in His eyes, people see that as the mormon church telling them that their faith is wrong. i think that's why they get a little hot and bothered. ----- and i don't think anyone is smart or wise enough to tell anyone else on this earth who is and isn't going to hell. i hate seeing christians on corners and on campuses telling everybody that they're going to hell.

wanderer, sorry. that's what i kinda meant. is that 1000 years part of what it's referring to? is that included? pentium, where can i read about the three degrees of glory in the book of mormon?