WillowTheWhisp

I left the church. I returned to the church. I was not advised to apply for a new Patriarchal Blessing. I was told that all my previous blessings would be restored, including my temple marriage.

Thank you crytsprospect for showing us yet another perspective. Everyone is different. We all have different personalities just as we all have different fingerprints, even identical twins. God bless you.

Thank you so much Loudmouth Mormon for that quotation by Alexander B. Morrison from the Oct 2005 Ensign. It says it all so much better than my feeble attempts earlier. Perhaps if the first post in this thread had said words along the lines of "Hey I suffered from depression but no longer do and this is how I overcame it." then others may have joined in to congratulate the poster and wish them well - however, it may also have led to people continuing to think that was THE way to 'cure' depression. From the many subsequent posts we can see that it is far from the be all and end all and that in fact Church leaders have stated as much. For that alone, and for the fact that others have come out in support of those currently suffering I thank the originator for bringing up this topic so that we can all learn from it. I hope that people will no longer continue to blame sufferers for not curing themselves.

I can relate to a lot of this because some of what I'm going through at the moment involves several family members and one in particular, a teenager suffering from depression and already under stress with exams and pressure to choose career options. It's so complicated too that for the past few days I have spent most of the time in tears due to inability to help and because of the different things which have added to the problems. There is NO WAY this child could do anything to serve anyone else at the moment when even getting to school is a major ordeal right now. A teenage child shouldn't want to be dead.

If you go back through past issues of the Ensign you'll find that it is acknowledged that there are a great many sufferers from depression within the church. We once had a Bishop who told a sufferer that they would be fine once they had repented of their sins because he'd read in the Book of Mormon that 'despair cometh because of iniquity' - not a very clever thing to say to someone already feeling guilty for being a sufferer was it? I believe he had totally misinterpreted that scripture. Are people who have terminal cancer made to feel guilty for being ill and told to get up off their death bed and do something for someone else?

BINGO! That explains the difference between 'being depressed about' and 'suffering from depression'. Yes indeedy the former can be alleviated by turning outwards towards others rather than inwards towards self. However, the latter doesn't revolve around something which can be fixed or let go of. It isn't 'being depressed about' anything in particular. It is an illness. A person who is feeling down because things around them are bringing them down can equally be suicidal but it's not the same as being totally empty and not even knowing how to be human which doesn't have an external cause which can be either rectified or ignored. It's almost impossible to explain and this is why I do wish there was a different name for it rather than 'depression'. It's like the word 'shock'. People say "Oh I was shocked to see, hear, learn of...." such and such. There is also the term "suffering from shock" which medical reports include when someone has been in an accident. It doesn't mean that they were shocked by what happened in the sense that they went, "Oh my goodness, what an awful accident!" it means that their body was physically affected by what happened. It manifests in a decreased blood flood throughout the body and if prolonged, it may result in permanent cell damage and ultimately death. Can you see the difference there?

I am really finding this very difficult to understand because I know that when someone is down at the bottom of the deepest blackest pit of depression to expect them to climb walls as slippery as glass, which are taller than the highest building, with no footholds and expect them to get to the top and be able to do anything at all for themselves let alone for other people can seem like asking them to climb Everest unassisted or to dive to the bottom of the Pacific Ocean without oxygen. If you could do those things when you were suicidal then you are amazing. I can say no more.

I've been a nursery leader and I've been a Mum of young children. I've had times when the children in nursery have cried and wanted their Mum. Most of the time if the Mum came and took them out it merely prolonged the agony. The ones who were left to realise that Mum had to be somewhere else but was coming back were the ones who settled in quicker. But all children are different and only you know what your child will best relate to. When my children were very small I have spent whole Sundays in the church porch (it being the only place where my child did not disturb other people in their classes) and I often used to wonder what on earth I was getting out of being at church at all. Now I think it was to teach me that Mums need time away from their children when they come to church so that they can fulfil their own callings or participate in their own lessons. I'm surprised that your nursery leader is alone in her class. Is this because you have a very small ward? That just is not permitted here even if it means rotating people on assignment. Nursery is great but it's kind of difficult to even teach those simple nursery lessons if one child is crying all the time and there is only one person in there - the other children can end up being ignored. If your new Nursery Leader has never served in that calling before maybe she is unsure of what is expected of her. Perhaps she has been told to take a crying child back to the mother. Maybe if you could sort something out with someone else in there to help so that she can either teach the lesson and someone take care of the crying child until they settle, or vice versa.

When you were suicidal could you actually have done anything to serve anyone else?

I'll see if I can dig out my old photos from the Susquecentennial celebration here when President Hinckley came and we did a tour of all the historical sites. I wonder if maybe Banff is the oldest branch in Scotland? I remember years ago saying that I thought we should have a Temple in Preston Stake with all the historical connections here, then we got one - then they changed the stake and now it's in our Chorley Stake!

Tree, I saw nothing ugly in your reply.

People who suffer from depression are not 'feeling sad' or 'needing to cry' or 'whining'. People who suffer from clinical depression are not creating their own hell. Would anybody create that black hole? Would anybody endure it if they could end it? If 'getting off their butt and doing something for somebody else' would solve their situation don't you think they would jump at the chance? You have absolutely no idea. Yes feeling a bit badly done too and mooching about with the 'nobody has a life as lousy as mine' attitude is not productive and serving others can be a kick up the rear end that such lazy self centred people need. BUT, people like that are not people suffering from depression. People suffering from depression are not people who are depressed. It's an unfortunate word which has been used to describe a condition which is nothing less than hell on earth. Someone suffering from depression cannot go out there and DO anything. Sometimes they can't even string two thoughts together in their head. Sometimes they aren't even sure they HAVE a head! Trying to formulate one thought can be difficult enough. Imagine this scene: A young woman suffering from depression accompanies her husband to a park where he sees a friend nof theirs sitting on a park bench. He says to the wife, "Look, Pat is over there. Why don't you go over and talk to her." The wife looks at him with a blank expression, trying to understand what he is saying to her and all she can reply is, "What about?" How on EARTH do you imagine she can go out there and do anything for anyone? Do you not realise how guilty someone feels when they suffer in this way? The depressive themselves feels like what is wrong with them is somehow all their fault.People tell them to snap out of it and they can't because they don't know how so they feel guilty. Especially if they are a member of the church. They feel even more guilty because we are supposed to be full of joy aren't we? They are ill. Would you have so little compassion for someone dying of cancer? If you saw someone with a broken leg would you tell them to run a marathon? Telling someone suffering from depression to get up and do something for others is harder than expecting someone with two broken legs to run for miles and win the race. Please do not make them feel even worse. They already feel bad enough.

I'm sorry John Doe but to me it didn't come across as sadness, it came across as mean and just a tad 'holier than thou' especially with the follow up line: which just reads as being heavily laden with sarcasm. If that was not how you intended it to be read then I apologise for misinterpreting you. The Brits amongst us will probably be familiar with Jim Bowen's famous line from 'Bullseye' when someone lost and he said "Well, never mind. But let's look at what you could have won." - but no way do they want to see it really because now they can't have it. There is no opportunity to try again. Once they lose they are out of the game. Perhaps that's how you see a Patriarchal Blessing in relation to someone who, for whatever reason, has left the Church. But unlike 'Bullseye' this isn't just about what you could have had but lost and have permanently missed your chance. This is about something which you could have had, at present do not have, but still have the opportunity of regaining if you want to try again.

I hope you do get it and that you find it helpful and useful. As far as I believe it will still tell you what was foreordained for you in the pre-existence and you still have the choice to accept those blessings again if you wish.

The oldest continuously surviving unit of the Church anywhere in the world is right here in England too - in Preston, Lancashire. We haven't had the same building in Preston all that time but the ward/branch has never ceased to exist since it was first formed when the first missionaries came here in 1837. It is not far from my own Ward of Blackburn although we are in a different Stake. We used to be part of Preston Stake until it split a few years ago. Now we are Chorley Stake but one amusing thing is that we have two temples in England. One of them is located on the same site as our Chorley Stake centre and yet it is called "Preston Temple" and has the name on the wall outside the driveway which leads to the temple and our Stake Centre. There are quite a few interesting historical sites around this area, the River Ribble where the first baptisms in England took place, the flag market in Preston where the first missionaries preached, the lodging house where they stayed still exists too but is no longer a lodging house but privately owned. To anyone who lives in this area it's interesting to check out the sites but there are few official memorial marks to denote connection with the church. Apart from in Avenham Park in Preston there is a plaque relating to the first baptisms (the River Ribble runs through the park) and in Clitheroe, Chatburn and Downham there are benches donated by the church bearing memorial plaques dedicated to the first converts from the area who emmigrated to the USA.

We have no idea why Just Miss left the church. I too once had my name removed and it wasn't over some political or doctrinal disagreement. Perhaps I was immature by running away from something I couldn't live up to. However, I came back many many years ago and have been stronger since - yet if my tentative steps back had been met with a cold off putting rebuttal I doubt I would be here now. Surely the desire should be to encourage people who have left to come back again not to reconfirm their reasons for leaving? We are all at different levels of maturity in the Gospel and sometimes some of us need the milk before we can handle the meat with the nasty big bones in.

So how about Dr. Pepper? Some people say it is forbidden because it contains caffeine but it isn't hot and it isn't alcohol. I drink Barleycup or Caro, they are served at church socials and both of those are hot.

John Doe, you are putting me off this website if this attitude is representative of what it stands for. Would the Saviour speak like that?

Originally Posted by DigitalShadow View Post . . . If God has a problem with that, he should not have created me this way . . .do not put this back on G-d. You have agency. If you are incapable of faith, that is your fault and no one else's including The L-rd's. May I just add to this point that it was Satan's idea to control our minds and force us all back to Heaven.

I see it that we shouldn't make the decision to take life, that it is God's decision to make.

I have had a few such experiences too. Some make sense as to why I should experience them. Others make no sense at all because I don't see why I should need to know that. For instance one really seemingly silly one many years ago when I was at school (this may have been the very first time I was aware of it) I knew that Ringo Starr of the Beatles would miss the flight when they were off on a tour abroad somewhere. Now why the heck should I know that? I actually saw and heard him saying that he had missed the plane. Later that day he missed the plane. Crazy and pointless that I should know that in advance. Another time though when I knew in advance who our new Stake President was going to be before it was even officially known that the old one was going to be released I found the purpose of that much later when it was confirmed to me by the Spirit that all this was in the Lord's hands.

The church is made up of individuals some of whom do not always say or do the thing which others would do at the time. As an example we once had a Bishop who was very blunt and consequently very foot-in-mouth and never even saw that he was doing it. A young couple had been excommunicated prior to marriage but the wife had repented and come back to church and was rebaptised. The husband was a little bit stubborn with a "why should we get punished, other people do it and they don't seem to have been excommunicated" attitude. Maybe his attitude had some bearing on the excommunication who knows. The point is that the wife prayed constantly that her husband would soften his heart and come back to church so they could be sealed in the temple. One day, when she was already at church, he came. It must have taken a great deal of effort for him to walk through those doors after years of stubborn refusal to even accept that he needed to repent. It was such a joy to see him. Then the Bishop approached him and the first words out of his mouth were, "So, you've finally decided to show your face at last" The young man turned and left the building and never returned. The couple are now divorced. How different could it have been if the Bishop had said "Hey, it's great to see you. Come on in!"

If someone has received a Patriarchal Blessing, then leaves the church but later comes back and gets rebaptised and is told all their former blessings have been restored, would that include the Patriarchal Blessing? Would the copy still be retained in Salt Lake even if someone had their name removed? After all the blessing did take place so it is a valid record of something which actually happened at the time, like we read of blessings in the scriptures but then people fall away from the Gospel and lose their blessings but the record of what they did have is still there. Maybe reading a Patriarchal Blessing could be the start of someone coming back.

This sounds really exciting. I hope I will be able to get access to some of this stuff.

In our ward there are single people who have never married, divorced people who have remarried, divorced people who have not remarried, widowed people who have and who have not remarried and people who have been married for years. An eternal relationship is something to aspire to but it doesn't always happen for everyone. Whatever your personal situation you will be welcome. Remember you are part of Heavenly Father's family. I'm going through a particularly hard time at the moment and that is keeping me going in a way. I need to be part of the church with the love and support I am getting from my 'family' there.