Shell72

Let's stick to the topic at hand... The bible commands it's people to obey the laws of the Land. There is nothing in the age of consent laws, or marriage laws that go against what the Bible tells us to do, so there is no justifiable reason why someone would go against God's word regarding obeying the laws of the land, and have relations with a minor or take more than one wife. God does not command his people to do this.

I wasn't intending to be mean - it was an honest question.

Sorry.. I forgot this part in my post. Yes I can.. Romans 13:1-2, TLB. "Obey the government, for God is the one who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power. So those who refuse to obey the laws of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow." Utah Law states that the age of consent is 16 for a female.

Is it ok with you that 13 year old's are having sexual relations?

What is bad about that enviornment? Well first off, they grow up in secrecy. It is illegal so any of the children of the 2nd, 3rd et etc wife grow up having to publicly deny their father. Secondly, you are not to have sex with a women you are not married to. The law does not allow you to marry more than one woman ( and it is not a necessity, nor a commandment that men have more than one wife - so breaking the law ( "obey the laws of the land" ) in the name of your faith is not warranted. The children are brought into an unlawful and/or sinful enviorment. Thirdly, it is not fair to expect a child to go live thier lives completely ostracized (sp?) from society. It is not fair and extremely selfish on the parts of the parents.

And that makes it right?

As long as they don't reproduce and bring children into that enviornment. ETA: Their decisions are judged by God and God alone and it's not up to me to pass judgement - but when a child gets born into the mix I believe society has a responsibility to protect them.

I don't even think a parent should have the right to "consent" to a child having sex - they too should be held accountable for making a decision like that IMO. I'm glad Mr. Green got put behind bars. Anyone that finds a 13 year old girl sexually attractive should be locked up for any reason the courts can find IMO and away from society. Just my opinion of course..

I thought it wasn't the caffiene that was a problem but the "hot drink" that was?

You think Tom Green was sent to jail unfairly? You think he was justified in his actions?

Holly - God speaks to our hearts and tells us what His will is for us. Trust yourself with God. Do not let any human come between You and your relationship with God. I am proud of you seeking answers and truth - it is what God asks us to do.

totally off topic here.. but I went shopping for a new Bible on Sunday and was amazed at all of the versions.. I ended up buying two.. One was The Amplified, and the other was a column comparison of the NIV and The Message... Very good reading :)

Where in the Bible does it state that we have a heavenly mother? I'm getting completely lost here..

a-train - with all due respect.. the verse Acts17:29 does not state that we are literally the offspring of God.. It states: "28'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.' by this I think it means "poetically", or figuratively, we are God's offspring, but the verse immediatly following that states : "29 Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by man's design and skill" I take these verses to mean, that we are God's Children, but he is not like us in the flesh and we as his Children, should be well aware of this.

I am non-LDS and I have never pondered the lineage of God the Father. The Bible states that God is, always was, and always will be - and has never made mention of a Heavenly mother so I have not even thought of entering that into the equation. "Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains a priest forever." Hebrews 7:3

Excellent Post Newvid..

I took this verse to mean that some may view themselves as holy and worthy to partake in the Kingdom of God, and expect to be seated first - but they will actually be seated last as they are not as righteous as they presume to be. This verse in my opionion only solidifies the post that you are saying it contradicts. Regarding the rich being favored - I think the Bible makes it quite clear that this is not the case. "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." Mathew 19:24

I don't know what you mean but I hope you weren't referring to my post cuz it was the one right above this one. I hope I didn't say anything offensive ..

Dale, I love reading your posts. You are very well informed and I really appreciate the time and effort you put into to your responses to me. While I do disagree on some points - I am atleast learning where the LDS is coming from where, prior to coming to this thread, I was just blown away by what I percieved to be blatant disregard for what the Bible has commanded and now I do see that the LDS truly is seeking God's word. And while I view some of it as miguided, as I'm sure you view the Christian faith, I do respect anyone that is seeking God's word. I have built my faith around the Bible and soley around the Bible( which because of this - I have started reading again! :) ) , so I am sure that you can understand why I would question a book introduced so late in life by a man who's motives I question and I sincerely appreciate you understanding that and not attacking me or trying to belittle my opinons. God Bless :)

Excellent!! :) I never thought of referring to Jesus as my Brother before - that is a really cool verse! Thank you :)

He is not our Brother in my opinion . He is our Heavenly Father's son, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

if you would have included verse 16 t0 21 in your passage it would show that you are misinterpreting this.. or atleast I think you are. The verses immediately preceding what you wrote talk about Paul coming into the area and being greatly distressed at the city being full of idols, being made of all the materials you mentioned. He reasons with the people saying that they don't even know who they are worshipping ( Ie: to the unknownn God), and that God is bigger than all of the precious metals and he wants nothing man can make as he is God and can make what he wishes if he so desires it. He then finishes by saying that God created man and gave man his breath, and says to the Greeks that some of thier own poets refer to us as God's offspring - (which is safe to say as many refer "poetically" to God as their own Heavenly Father.) I don't see how you got that Man is God, and God is man out of that passage..

Hi Dale :) The LDS is the only Christian religion with a supplementary bible. This is why I question it - because it came from joseph smith, and Joseph Smith was directly contradicting what God has told us to do in the name of God. That is my only problem with the LDS church. If the Church were to focus soley on their own beliefs from the Bible and the Bible alone - then far be it from me to question what others believe that God is telling them through his Holy Word. What I have found is that the Bible warns us directly about false prophets and warns us not to be filled with feelings to justify our faith etc as the heart itself is deceptive. It tells us to question anyone that calls themself a prophet of God, and it tells us that many will try to decieve in His name. It even goes as far as to say that anyone who says that the Angel of the Lord has told them shall be cursed : "Galatians 1:8--"But though we or an angel from heaven , preach any other gospel, unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." We are warned and instructed on how to deal with this. So I ask this - How do you KNOW that Joseph Smith was a true prophet? It says in the Bible that feelings are not to be trusted so.. if you stay within the guidelines of the Bible how do you personally know that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God: There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death." (Proverbs 14:12) The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked " (Jeremiah 17:9) Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not decieved . " (Deuteronomy 11:16) Deuteronomy 18:22--A "true prophet" will not give any false prophecies. many of the things Joseph Smith prophetized did not come true, his revelation the second coming of Christ was to occur within 56 years ( which would have made it happen in 1891ish), Mr. Patten was to go on a Mission the following Spring and yet he passed away in October, The US Government did not undo the wrongdoings and yet was still not overthrown within a few years and Congress did not break up as a result of not listening to Mr. Smith, The temple built atop Mt. Zion was never built, I could go on and on, and I'm sure that there are a thousand reasons why people that believe Joseph was a prophet can explain why these things didn't happen - but God clearly states that EVERYTHING a prophet prophesises will come to pass.. So WHY was an entire church founded on a man who was did not pass the "test" according to the Bible? Why do people believe that he was speaking God's word? Why did people believe him at the time when he said marrying other men's wives was God's will when it directly contradicted the 10 commandments? I seriously DO NOT UNDERSTAND!!!!

I dont' see where he speaks of any covenants made under that authority will be bound in heaven. He is talking about getting into the Kingdom of Heaven. Peter had the keys to the kingdom of heaven. I believe it can be taken out of context to mean just about anything but the whole chapter is talking about Jesus building his church and handing over the keys to Heaven.

"We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity, I will refute that idea ... he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did .... you have got to learn how to be GODS YOURSELVES... the same as all GODS have done before you .... "Joseph Smith I am he: BEFORE ME THERE WAS NO GOD FORMED, NEITHER SHALL THERE BE AFTER ME." (Isaiah 43:1 O) God the Father has a body of FLESH AND BONES. (Section 130:22 The D&C God is a SPIRIT. (John 4:24) Those seem like blatant contradictions in my eyes. As well as Joseph directly disobeying the 10 commandments in the name of God - to me those are major red flags that we all, as God's children, should question this.