Israel beginning training to take on Iran

[hethathathears]

Israel, and Iran

Edited April 6, 2010 by hethathathears

[Fiannan]

A couple of things to add in regards to Revelations and books like Daniel in the OT. The only army able to field 250 million men is China. Up until now the idea of China being interested in the Middle East was not all that practical to consider. However, with China being oil hungry they have now forged alliances with Sudan (who blocks all the condemnations in the Security Councel?) and Iran. Russia is rather a rogue player at this time because the people described in the references to Gog and Magog were tribes that inhabited the areas of the Black Sea in those days -- not the Great Russians who are a blend of Slav, Finn and Swedish Viking (with a bit of Tatar thrown in). However, the Slavs are not reproducing at the same rate as the southern peoples and this, combined with immigration, makes it likely that Russia will someday not be run by Slavs but by the peoples who used to inhabit the ares described in Daniel.

[Islander]

That is a very interesting and complex topic. One, I may ad, that can rarely be approached with clarity and objectivity unless one has been around the region and understand closely the very intricate and long history of the parties involved. I have friends in northern Israel and have visited with them many times. Because of the color of my skin and language proficiency I can travel the region pretty much in "camouflage" both, in the Israeli controlled areas and in the Arab controlled regions.

The threat as perceived by Israel is very real. Do not forget that they have been attacked 3 times by its neighbors in less than 50 years. What other country had to endure that? Just a couple of years ago Northern Israel received 500 rocket hits from Lebanon in 8 weeks. Just imagine, for the sake of the argument, what would the US response be if the Mexicans would shoot 50 rockets at San Diego, CA over a weekend.

Keep in mind also that a prophet described in Revelations something he had no language for since they will occur in the very distant future. We are only capable to elaborate verbally in contemporary terms. In the 1950's we came up with "flying saucer" because that was the ONLY thing we could come up with at the time. UFO came 20 years later or so. Therefore, who will be or what ethnic mixture could be present in an event X-distant in the future is pretty hard to predict. 25% of the American people are of recent arrival (less than 20 years) and of a race other than Caucasian. That is since 1980.

It makes for pretty interesting conversation, however.

[hethathathears]

Israel and Iran

Edited April 6, 2010 by hethathathears

[Islander]

Russia supplies most of the weapons currently in use in the middle east, north Africa and sub-Sahara Africa. Since the Iran-Contra affair, the Pentagon stepped on their scrutiny of weapon sales.

It is not a surprise that Rusia is all ovder the map. The Caspian Sea is mostly a black market route for everything between east and west with Iran as the gate keeper.

Also, it may be very difficult to distinguish between a Russian made and a Chinese made Kalashnikov assault rifle. In any events, selling weapons and technology has been the only influence that Russia has been able to assert in the region after their colossal collapse of the late 80"s.

In sum, EVERYONE hates Israel in the region. It is a tiny country surrounded by sworn enemies that believe they have no right to exist. A coalition of several million soldiers from several countries is not too far fetched.

[hethathathears]

Israel and Iran

Edited April 6, 2010 by hethathathears

[Fiannan]

Considering that Dmitry Medvedev is ethnically Jewish I am not sure the Russian state at this time is really dedicated to the destruction of Israel.

[hethathathears]

Israel and Iran

Edited April 6, 2010 by hethathathears
yep, yep, yep

[Hemidakota]

This is not the end of time....even if Israel is out training for mobilization.

[hethathathears]

Israel and Iran

Edited April 6, 2010 by hethathathears

[Islander]

Islam's Koran commands Muslims to force the entire planet to submit to literal control by Islam, the Jewish Torah promises the children of Israel a modest and reasonable allotment of land. Israel is a democratic nation the size of Main, surrounded by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 times her size, 60 times her population. How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of 22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world be blamed for the problems of the 300 million Arabs with ties to 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide?

Israel is the ONLY Democracy in the middle of totalitarian Arab/Muslim Middle East states. For 55 years since she became a nation in 1948, Israel has sought peaceful coexistence with neighbors dedicated to her destruction. Thus far only Egypt and Jordan have formalized a peace treaty. I suspect some arm twisting from the US and UN sustained these treaties.

In the west we do not teach our children to hate. We do not train our children to die and to expect them to do so as a means to an end before their 25th birthday. We do not understand the psyche of the middle east, not are we exposed to the violence Israel lives daily from their neighbors. If we had bombs going off daily in Michigan we would see things differently, promise. How do you make "peace and negotiate" with somebody that wants you dead and will not change his mind?

[hethathathears]

Israel and Iran

Edited April 6, 2010 by hethathathears

[Rize]

Islander wrote - "Islam's Koran commands Muslims to force the entire planet to submit to literal control by Islam," that is oh so true. Sharia Law is that law that takes our agency away. If you do something wrong, you don't go to jail but are killed.

In Christianity, we are taught Love and mercy. That if we Love the Lord our God with all our hearts, and our neighbors as our selves and endure to the end, then we shall have eternal life.

While Radical Islam teaches that if you die as a martyr (killing non Islamic believers) whether man, woman or child, then you will instantly go to heaven and receive 72 virgins. Of course if you are a woman, you just get a free ride to heaven. The sad part is that the radical belief include Muslims killing other Muslims that are not of their thought.

If Christ is Love, and Radical Islam is hate, haven't we met the Anti Christ?

"A Latter-Day Perspective on Muhammad" Ensign, August, 2000

LDS.org - Ensign Article - A Latter-day Saint Perspective on Muhammad

"As early as 1855, at a time when Christian literature generally ridiculed Muhammad as the Antichrist and the archenemy of Western civilization, Elders George A. Smith (1817–75) and Parley P. Pratt (1807–57) of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles delivered lengthy sermons demonstrating an accurate and balanced understanding of Islamic history and speaking highly of Muhammad's leadership. Elder Smith observed that Muhammad was "descended from Abraham and was no doubt raised up by God on purpose" to preach against idolatry. He sympathized with the plight of Muslims, who, like Latter-day Saints, found it difficult "to get an honest history" written about them. Speaking next, Elder Pratt went on to express his admiration for Muhammad's teachings, asserting that "upon the whole, … [Muslims] have better morals and better institutions than many Christian nations." 9

Latter-day Saint appreciation of Muhammad's role in history can also be found in the 1978 First Presidency statement regarding God's love for all mankind. This declaration specifically mentions Muhammad as one of "the great religious leaders of the world" who received "a portion of God's light" and affirms that "moral truths were given to [these leaders] by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals." 10"

"Ishmael, Our Brother" Ensign, June, 1979

LDS.org - Ensign Article - Ishmael, Our Brother

"The Lord describes Ishmael's descendents, the Arabs, in these terms: "And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation" (Gen. 16:12; Gen. 17:20). "

[NeuroTypical]

Anyone ever get tired of reading end-times sensational predictions? Had enough of people telling you you're foolish, blind, deluded, or not a good Mormon because you won't buy their x-filesesque adrenalin fest predictions of the near future?

Here's a pretty well-reasoned article from the professional smart people at Stratfor. They feel like peace is about to break out in the Middle East. I don't know if they're correct or not, but they certainly prove the point - nobody needs to be forced into accepting one crystal ball prediction over any other.

Geopolitical Intellegence Report: The New Era

Exerpts:

Israel and Syria are looking to bury the hatchet, somewhere in the Golan Heights most likely,

...

The outline of the deal, then, is surprisingly simple: Israel gains military security from a peace deal in exchange for supporting Syrian primacy in Lebanon. The only local loser would be the entity that poses an economic challenge (in Lebanon) to Syria, and a military challenge (in Lebanon) to Israel — to wit, Hezbollah.

...

While the deal is not yet a fait accompli, the pieces are falling into place quite rapidly. Normally we would not be so optimistic, but the hard decisions — on Israel surrendering the Golan Heights and Syria laying preparations for cutting Hezbollah down to size — have already been made. On July 11 the leaders of Israel and Syria will be attending the same event in Paris, and if the French know anything about flair, a handshake may well be on the agenda.

It isn’t exactly pretty — and certainly isn’t tidy — but peace really does appear to be breaking out in the Middle East.

...

The post-World War II interregnum brought about the Korean War as China’s rise slammed into America’s efforts to entrench its power. The post-Cold War interregnum produced Yugoslav wars, a variety of conflicts in the former Soviet Union (most notably in Chechnya), the rise of al Qaeda, the jihadist conflict and the Iraq war.

All these conflicts are now well past their critical phases, and in most cases are already sewn up. All of the pieces of Yugoslavia are on the road to EU membership. Russia’s borderlands — while hardly bastions of glee — have settled. Terrorism may be very much alive, but al Qaeda as a strategic threat is very much not. Even the Iraq war is winding to a conclusion. Put simply, the Cold War interregnum is coming to a close and a new era is dawning.

[Islander]

I think that, by far, The Latter-Day Saints had tried to see the better, more benign part of Islam throughout history. Every religion has good people and, keep this in mind, God has always commanded us to love and care for our neighbor. That portion of the scripture has been rejected in favor of a more radical and aggressive agenda that overshadowed the more gentle parts in the Muslim world. But overall LDS leaders had a more conciliatory tone towards Islam and the Muslim world than they had towards us as Christians in general. We collaborate with Muslim charities in the ME for relief and the like at present.

In the last 50 years Christian communities that have existed throughout all the Middle East since the 1st century have been exterminated systematically. Others have been driven out of all Islamic countries and into Israel who has given them sanctuary.

[shemightbelina]

Islam's Koran commands Muslims to force the entire planet to submit to literal control by Islam, the Jewish Torah promises the children of Israel a modest and reasonable allotment of land. Israel is a democratic nation the size of Main, surrounded by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 times her size, 60 times her population. How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of 22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world be blamed for the problems of the 300 million Arabs with ties to 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide?

Israel is the ONLY Democracy in the middle of totalitarian Arab/Muslim Middle East states. For 55 years since she became a nation in 1948, Israel has sought peaceful coexistence with neighbors dedicated to her destruction. Thus far only Egypt and Jordan have formalized a peace treaty. I suspect some arm twisting from the US and UN sustained these treaties.

In the west we do not teach our children to hate. We do not train our children to die and to expect them to do so as a means to an end before their 25th birthday. We do not understand the psyche of the middle east, not are we exposed to the violence Israel lives daily from their neighbors. If we had bombs going off daily in Michigan we would see things differently, promise. How do you make "peace and negotiate" with somebody that wants you dead and will not change his mind?

Does Islam Promote Peace?

I think that addresses a lot of the things said above.

Just putting it out there!

Edited July 10, 2008 by shemightbelina

[Islander]

That (link) is a very eloquent article. But it is as far from the operating reality today as the crab nebula is from my back yard. The fact is that the academic interpretation and scholarly analysis of the Islamists makes for very good conversation but it does not transcend from the living room where they are gathered. I have read the Islamic texts, ancient and modern commentaries and, if they would live their religion and philosophy according to perhaps the original intent, we would all be friends.

I tend to be a pragmatist and I have traveled the region extensively. The average Muslim cannot read the Qur'an. They rely on the Imans and Mulah's to "translate" the text's into the current context. The aggressive rethoric is coming from inside the Islamic countries. The prevailing speech is one of intolerance and hate. So I am not too impressed with scholarly analysis at this junction.

Those that attempt to share a more modern, philosophically benign interpretation of Islam are ALL outside in the West. They have no political leverage or influence inside their own countries. My hope is that one way or another we could continue with the business of living but I am not optimistic that any long term peaceful solution can be achieve in the region. If you don't believe me, pick up a newspaper and read what Ahmadinejad, or Hamas, or Hezbolah said about Israel or the US last week. The fact remains that tolerance is not a trait cultivated, in reality, in current Islam.

Edited July 10, 2008 by Islander

[hethathathears]

Israel and Iran

Edited April 6, 2010 by hethathathears

[hethathathears]

Israel and Iran

Edited April 6, 2010 by hethathathears

[NeuroTypical]

In the year 626 B.C. Jeremiah went unto the people of Jerusalem and basically said that if the people didn't repent, they would be destroyed from an invading army from the North. (Babylon or modern Iraq) Now I'm sure that the people of that day were tired of hearing end-times sensational predictions? I'm sure they had Had enough of people telling them they were foolish, blind, deluded, or not a good Mormon because they wouldn't buy their x-filesesque adrenalin fest predictions of the near future? So what happened you ask? Well, they were either destroyed or taken into captive.

Newsflash - you ain't Jeremiah. And that you would compare yourself to a prophet of God in order to add oomph to your tired old message, says something about you, but it ain't something persuasive.

In the year 1983, the tune was "earth will be burned with a fire"-esque sensationalist predictions about immenent nuclear war. I was neither destroyed nor taken captive. In 1988, when the tune was "The commies are invading the UN, and the north-american union is immenent!", I was neither destroyed nor taken captive. In 1994, when the tune changed to "Bush/CFR/TPTB/Illuminati/Bilderbergers are using Iraq to bring martial law", I was neither destroyed nor taken captive. It was back to the UN during the Clinton years, then picked back up with Bush II and 9/11.

Now, our current sensationalist end-times doomsayer turns to Iran for inspiration. I am only as impressed with you, as I have been with your umpteen predecessors. You've all pointed to Daniel and Revelation, and made the same claims about how it was all at our doorstep. It's been a quarter of a century since I started paying attention to you guys, I'm sure you've been at it a lot longer than that.

LM

[hethathathears]

Israel and Iran

Edited April 6, 2010 by hethathathears

[hethathathears]

Israel and Iran

Edited April 6, 2010 by hethathathears