Progression between KIngdoms

[Hemidakota]

I recently was involved in a Missionary lesson by the full time missionaries about this very thing. As they stated.. you are who you are when you die. All of your experiences that make you .. you.. you remain so. It is much harder for someone to accept the gospel.. though possible.. in the spirit world. From my understanding.. Spirit Prison is were you go for being a bad person.. not that you don't have a testimony of the gospel. There are many good people who die.. who go to paradise and are taught the gospel. So the Gospel is being taught in both places.. Paradise and Spirit prison. Just not sure if there is a library there that you can go get a copy of the bible to prove the teachers wrong.

Only the sinful portion will be removed from our memories....I do want to keep those moments I have with the Three while in mortality. Something I will always cherish forever.

I do remember when Professor Nibley spoke on his NDE, he was allowed to visit the library and the most unique portion of that statement he made, we touch the material and instantly retain the information. I guess I can now learn how to play a piano.

[Hemidakota]

We will eventually find out the answer to your question, but I think it is best to repent in this life. If someone else has a reliable source on progression between kingdoms I would love to hear it. I just know now is the time to be prepared for your judgement.

:)

It starts with laying the foundation of a planted seed as I did regarding this subject year’s back and then allowing the Holy Ghost and other members of the Godhead in providing instructions over a given time [spiritual Maturity] in providing a clearer understanding of this progression notion. Our character must shift from the natural man to a man sincerity and humbleness, thus, must be obedience and allow HIS will be that driving force in our lives when we ask such things, in being edified. It then becomes part of us in mortality, a force that ensures daily our garments remain unspotted from the world. Sin will become a 'hiss' and epitome with our lives as we will want to be Them in the end.

The key to start the seed, Intelligences were not created by GOD and matter is eternal.

[HiJolly]

It starts with laying the foundation of a planted seed as I did regarding this subject year’s back and then allowing the Holy Ghost and other members of the Godhead in providing instructions over a given time [spiritual Maturity] in providing a clearer understanding of this progression notion. Our character must shift from the natural man to a man sincerity and humbleness, thus, must be obedience and allow HIS will be that driving force in our lives when we ask such things, in being edified. It then becomes part of us in mortality, a force that ensures daily our garments remain unspotted from the world. Sin will become a 'hiss' and epitome with our lives as we will want to be Them in the end.

The key to start the seed, Intelligences were not created by GOD and matter is eternal.

Hemi, I'm glad I understand what you're trying to say, because otherwise that was a really cryptic post. (no offense intended).

We often try to nail down what happens in the heavens, and just as often we fail to grasp the reality. Have faith. God is good, and He loves us all.

HiJolly

[MrNirom]

Only the sinful portion will be removed from our memories....

So when we die.. and either go to Paradise or SP.. the sins we committed are removed from our memories?

[bytor2112]

I read a talk by James Faust about wayward children and Sealing power. Basically, if our children have been sealed to us and they transgress and fall away that through the Sealing power we will be able to reclaim them. Sounds like the Lord has extended his mercy well beyond our minds ability to understand..... and boy am I thankful!!

[Hemidakota]

Correct...having a still-born child, I told my wife that she will have that opportunity to raise that child in the next life. However, I don't recall who will be building her mansion. LOL

MrNirom, there’s three ways that will effect our death: 1] unrepented goes to the Spirit Prison, 2] Repentable will go to Paradise, or 3] those of the elect maybe called early with being resurrected in order to carry-out a special tasking for the Savior [i.e. 144,000 as John spoke about in Revelation]

I need to look for the reference, which I stated, while listening intently during a leadership meeting [answered by a church official] about those repented will not have memories of sin any longer. I will need to get back to you...

[Hemidakota]

As I have previously said, in modern revelation the Lord has said to his prophet: "Behold, he who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more." (D&C 58:42.) Our Lord gave the same word through the prophet Jeremiah: "... For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more." (Jer. 31:34.) How gracious is the Lord!

We shall not remember those sins whom the Lord already forgave. President Spencer W. Kimball wrote:

Promises to the Repentant Sinner

Certainly the Lord loves the sinner, and especially the one who is trying to repent, even though the sin is abhorrent to him. (D&C 1:31.) Those who have transgressed can find many scriptures which will comfort them and impel them to move forward into total and continuing repentance. For instance, continuing his revelation to all men dated November 1, 1831, and referred to above, the Lord stated:

Nevertheless, he that repents and does the commandments of the Lord shall be forgiven;

And he that repents not, from him shall be taken even the light which he has received for my Spirit shall not always strive with man, saith the Lord of Hosts. (D&C 1:32-33.)

It should be remembered that these commandments from the Standard Works of the Church are to "all men, and there is none to escape." This means that the call to repentance from sin is to all men and not to the members of the Church only, and not to those only whose sins are considered major ones. And the call promises forgiveness of sin to those who respond. What a farce it would be to call people to repentance if there were no forgiveness, and what a waste of the life of Christ if it failed to bring the opportunity for salvation and exaltation!

Sometimes a guilt consciousness overpowers a person with such a heaviness that when a repentant one looks back and sees the ugliness, the loathsomeness of the transgression, he is almost overwhelmed and wonders, "Can the Lord ever forgive me? Can I ever forgive myself?" But when one reaches the depths of despondency and feels the hopelessness of his position, and when he cries out to God for mercy in helplessness but in faith, there comes a still, small, but penetrating voice whispering to his soul, "Thy sins are forgiven thee."

The image of a loving, forgiving God comes through clearly to those who read and understand the scriptures. Since he is our Father, he naturally desires to raise us up, not to push us down, to help us live, not to bring about our spiritual death. "For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth," he has said, "wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye." (Ezek. 18:32.)

From Ezekiel too come these words of solace and hope:

Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;

If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.

None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live. (Ezek. 33:14-16.)

The same prophet wrote also, in the name of the Lord:

Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. (Ezek. 36:25-26.)

We are indebted to John for the encouraging and beautiful expression: "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9.)

As he fervently prayed at the dedication of the Kirtland Temple in 1836, the Prophet Joseph Smith expressed his assurance that sins could be blotted out: "O Jehovah, have mercy upon this people, and as all men sin forgive the transgressions of thy people, and let them be blotted out forever." (D&C 109:34.) The thought of blotting out of sins during the process of forgiveness was also expressed by the Lord when he said: "I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins." (Isa. 43:25.)

"Great are the words of Isaiah," said the Savior (3 Ne. 23:1), and that prophet's words rise to the sublime in the well-known passage wherein he made a promise of forgiveness to all who will repent:

Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. (Isa. 55:6-7. Italics added.)

What a glorious promise of forgiveness the Lord made through the great Isaiah! Mercy and pardon! What more could men want or hope for!

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. (Isa. 1:18.)

Specific assurances of forgiveness are several times recorded in the Doctrine and Covenants. For instance, on the bank of the Missouri River, down which the Prophet and ten elders were traveling in canoes, the Lord gave the group these words of comfort :

Behold, verily thus saith the Lord unto you, O ye elders of my church, who are assembled upon this spot, whose sins are now forgiven you, for I, the Lord, forgive sins, and am merciful unto those who confess their sins with humble hearts. (D&C 61:2.)

And speaking of his elect who subscribe to his requirements, the Lord says:

For they will hear my voice, and shall see me, and shall not be asleep, and shall abide the day of my coming; for they shall be purified, even as I am pure. (D&C 35:21.)

The promise is again given "that by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins." Here the reader is urged to read the whole of the 76th Section of the Doctrine and Covenants, but particularly from the 51st verse on. Those who have overcome their sins and been perfected are "... the church of the Firstborn. They are they into whose hands the Father has given all things." (D&C 76:54-55.) [Miracle of Forgiveness by Spencer W. Kimball]

If the Lord does not remember it, we won't either....

[tubaloth]

My friend believes that everyone will Eternally Progress.Progression within a Kingdom-yes, but to other Kingdoms? Is repentance available to a non-repentant member in the Spirit world? Any thoughts?

Yes this was brought up in another thread. This is Elder McConkies take on it. (I assume his views are better then mine).

Heresy five: There are those who say that there is progression from one kingdom to another in the eternal worlds or that lower kingdoms eventually progress to where higher kingdoms once were.

This belief lulls men into a state of carnal security. It causes them to say, "God is so merciful; surely he will save us all eventually; if we do not gain the celestial kingdom now, eventually we will; so why worry?" It lets people live a life of sin here and now with the hope that they will be saved eventually.

The true doctrine is that all men will be resurrected, but they will come forth in the resurrection with different kinds of bodies--some celestial, others terrestrial, others telestial, and some with bodies incapable of standing any degree of glory. The body we receive in the resurrection determines the glory we receive in the kingdoms that are prepared.

Of those in the telestial world it is written: "And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end" (D&C 76:112).

Of those who had the opportunity to enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage in this life and who did not do it, the revelation says:

Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven; which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever. [D&C 132:16­17]

They neither progress from one kingdom to another, nor does a lower kingdom ever get where a higher kingdom once was. Whatever eternal progression there is, it is within a sphere.

Brother So and So is faithful all of his life, but falls in to a serious transgression after 45 years of faithful activity. He passes away before repentance. He loses his exaltation? Or does he have the opportunity to repent and still be with his family forever in the Celestial Kingdom?

Lets have Elder McConkie answer this one also

If we keep two principles in mind we will thereby know that good and faithful members of the Church will be saved, even though they are far from perfect in this life.

These two principles are (1) that this life is the appointed time for men to prepare to meet God--this life is the day of our probation; and (2) that the same spirit which possesses our bodies at the time we go out of this mortal life shall have power to possess our bodies in that eternal world.

What we are doing as members of the Church is charting a course leading to eternal life. There was only one perfect being, the Lord Jesus. If men had to be perfect and live all of the law strictly, wholly, and completely, there would be only one saved person in eternity. The prophet taught that there are many things to be done, even beyond the grave, in working out our salvation.

And so what we do in this life is chart a course leading to eternal life. That course begins here and now and continues in the realms ahead. We must determine in our hearts and in our souls, with all the power and ability we have, that from this time forward we will press on in righteousness; by so doing we can go where God and Christ are. If we make that firm determination, and are in the course of our duty when this life is over, we will continue in that course in eternity. That same spirit that possesses our bodies at the time we depart from this mortal life will have power to possess our bodies in the eternal world. If we go out of this life loving the Lord, desiring righteousness, and seeking to acquire the attributes of godliness, we will have that same spirit in the eternal world, and we will then continue to advance and progress until an ultimate, destined day when we will possess, receive, and inherit all things.

http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6770&x=54&y=6

So not your two examples if your second guy goes out of this life wanting to repent! Then that same spirit well follow him. If he has the spirit of transgression, then that same spirit well follow him. There is time to repent after death and before the Final Judgment.

[ruthiechan]

Let's say there is progression between the Kingdoms, why on earth would God tell us? That leads to complacency and laziness!

And even if you can, it does not mean you'll be exalted. Let's say it takes a few million years for someone to get to the Celestial Kingdom from the Telestial Kingdom. Well, all sealing ordinances are done and over with, so no Godhood for them. Of course, the notion of becoming a diety scares people, but I figure by the time I get to that point it won't be a problem. I'll have passed all the tests, played the game right, found wisdom, endured all my trials and tribulations, repented, fulfilled my callings and basically be full of clue.

But if you can reclaim your lost children who are sealed to you, well, how much more important is the Temple then?

As I have previously said, in modern revelation the Lord has said to his prophet: "Behold, he who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more." (D&C 58:42.) Our Lord gave the same word through the prophet Jeremiah: "... For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more." (Jer. 31:34.) How gracious is the Lord!

We shall not remember those sins whom the Lord already forgave. President Spencer W. Kimball wrote:

If the Lord does not remember it, we won't either....

Okay, that just makes me feel weird.

I thought we would no longer feel guilt or harrowed up in our sins any longer. So we repent, we retain the memory of it all, but no longer feel the weight of our sins.

Ever look back at your old self and think, "I have come a long way?"

I do. It makes me feel better about the rough times I'm having now and I think if I could get through all that crap or if I could repent and let go of that sin I can do the same with this one. . .