inquirer_Jn1717 Posted August 8, 2008 Report Share Posted August 8, 2008 I've been sifting through the internet, trying to find a legitimate PRO-LDS site with a search engine that can show me any sermon, article, etc. For example, I go to The LDS home page, type in "King Follet Discourse" and all I get is a series of very recent articles about the sermon but not the sermon itself...grr.Of course I can pull it up on Google (after a while), and ironically, I've had better luck finding LDS sermons on ANTI-LDS websites than any other place, but that's not where I want to get all my info from.I've found a site for the Journal of Discourses which is legit, but it seems the JoD doesn't cover Joseph Smith's sermons. And I also know of the Scripture search engine on lds.org.But do any of you know where a non-member could peruse LDS literature hassle free? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytor2112 Posted August 8, 2008 Report Share Posted August 8, 2008 You might try FAIR, FARMS, Shields, Jeffllinday.com all good pro-LDS sites. Check out LDSVoices.com. Theyt have talks on MP3's dating back to the 1940's!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaviusHambonius Posted August 8, 2008 Report Share Posted August 8, 2008 here's a couple along the same vein: mormonfortress.com gapages.com byubroadcasting.org fortress and gapages have many links to other pro-mormon-sites:thumbsup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanhin Posted August 8, 2008 Report Share Posted August 8, 2008 It might be the way you search. :) If you type "King Follett Sermon" into the search on the Church's home page, it will bring up the "King Follett Sermon" as the first article.LDS.org - Ensign Article - The King Follett SermonRegards,Vanhin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted August 8, 2008 Report Share Posted August 8, 2008 King Follett discourse from the JoD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquirer_Jn1717 Posted August 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 Thx!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquirer_Jn1717 Posted August 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 Vanhin- thx for the tip! I was forgetting that last "t" on the end of "Follett" and so it kept giving me a sermon by President Hinckley! But now we're good. Thanks again you guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmy- Posted August 9, 2008 Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 Outstanding piece of LDS literature imo. It's a huge reason why I joined the church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquirer_Jn1717 Posted August 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 Outstanding piece of LDS literature imo. It's a huge reason why I joined the church.The King Follett Sermon? What about it persuaded you? In fact, I'm surprised you've ever read it! Too often I meet an LDS missionary, tell them what it says and they think I'm making things up, because apparently, I'm an "anti"! LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanhin Posted August 9, 2008 Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 The King Follett Sermon? What about it persuaded you? In fact, I'm surprised you've ever read it! Too often I meet an LDS missionary, tell them what it says and they think I'm making things up, because apparently, I'm an "anti"! LOL.Would not have been the case with me. I mean if you brought it up to me when I was a missionary. The thing with the King Follett Sermon is this: "Readers should be reminded that the account of the talk was reconstructed from longhand notes taken by four brethren." (From the link). Not everything in what we have of the sermon necessarily represent official doctrine of the Church, or even necessarily what Joseph Smith said.That said, there is obviously a lot of truth to it. Many quotes, for example, were included in the latest Joseph Smith lesson manual from the King Follett Sermon (LDS.org - Melchizedek Priesthood Table of Contents - Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith). The sermon itself was included in the 1971 Ensign, and has been an often repeated and referred to work in the Church, so, I'm not sure why the missionaries would think it was anti. But it doesn't really matter. The missionaries are taught the official and basic doctrine of the Church, which is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, in order to prepare people for baptism and confirmation. They are not usually concerned with the speculations of leaders and members past or present.This is a good time to repeat something that needs to be repeated from time to time. * Not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. A single statement made by a single leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, but is not meant to be officially binding for the whole Church. With divine inspiration, the First Presidency (the prophet and his two counselors) and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications. This doctrine resides in the four “standard works” of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith. Isolated statements are often taken out of context, leaving their original meaning distorted. * Some doctrines are more important than others and might be considered core doctrines. For example, the precise location of the Garden of Eden is far less important than doctrine about Jesus Christ and His atoning sacrifice. The mistake that public commentators often make is taking an obscure teaching that is peripheral to the Church’s purpose and placing it at the very center. This is especially common among reporters or researchers who rely on how other Christians interpret Latter-day Saint doctrine.(Approaching Mormon Doctrine - LDS Newsroom)One of the truths in the sermon, that is accepted as official doctrine, is the fact that God the Father and Jesus Christ are both Exalted Men, and that in addition to the immortal spirit, they have glorified bodies of flesh and bone (D&C 130:22, Ether 3:14-17) . We also accept as doctrine the truth that we are also co-eternal with God, and that we are his children (D&C 93:29,33-36, LDS.org - Family Chapter Detail - The Family: A Proclamation to the World). And we are privileged, because of the merits of Christ, to have an opportunity to become like God, exalted, and to dwell in his presence forever (D&C 132:20, John 17:20-24).Here is a favorite quote of mine from the sermon about the spirit of man:"I want to reason more on the spirit of man; for I am dwelling on the body and spirit of man—on the subject of the dead. I take my ring from my finger and liken it unto the mind of man—the immortal part, because it had no beginning. Suppose you cut it in two; then it has a beginning and an end; but join it again, and it continues one eternal round. So with the spirit of man. As the Lord liveth, if it had a beginning, it will have an end. All the fools and learned and wise men from the beginning of creation, who say that the spirit of man had a beginning, prove that it must have an end; and if that doctrine is true, then the doctrine of annihilation would be true. But if I am right, I might with boldness proclaim from the housetops that God never had the power to create the spirit of man at all. God himself could not create himself.Intelligence is eternal and exists upon a self-existent principle. It is a spirit from age to age and there is no creation about it. All the minds and spirits that God ever sent into the world are susceptible of enlargement.The first principles of man are self-existent with God. God himself, finding he was in the midst of spirits and glory, because he was more intelligent, saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself. The relationship we have with God places us in a situation to advance in knowledge. He has power to institute laws to instruct the weaker intelligences, that they may be exalted with Himself, so that they might have one glory upon another, and all that knowledge, power, glory, and intelligence, which is requisite in order to save them in the world of spirits." (LDS.org - Ensign Article - The King Follett Sermon)Regards,Vanhin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquirer_Jn1717 Posted August 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 Thank-you Vahnin! That last post actually helps me out a lot. I have heard the response before: "not everything an LDS leader says is doctrine," which is also true in regular christianity: Calvin taught that some are actually pre-destined to hell, Luther said the James is a book of straw, and even I myself, a youth pastor have said and will continue to say stupid things that the Bible will not support. But the difference is that those men never claimed to be Prophets or Apostles, while the LDS Leaders in question do claim it. So then what standard do you (personally and the the Church as a whole) use to choose what is doctrine and what is not? I would appreciate it if you would clarify. Also, the quotes from the Sermon you noted are good to see there as accepted LDS doctrine (I have also found them in GOSPEL PRINCIPLES and other places confirmed), because as I'm sure you know, it is that central difference that separates us. In fact it is that very teaching, that God was once a mortal man, I have heard many LDS vehemently deny out of ignorance. But I don't mean to rag on you guys. There are plenty of Evangelicals who haven't made the connection between "Jesus is my Savior" and "Jesus is my Lord," myself included, most days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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