Lucifer Day Star Son of Dawn

[pam]

But when i see an american i instantly recognise you.

What do we have 3 arms instead of 2? An eye in the middle of our forehead? I find it offensive to stereotype Americans or any other people from any country. The common ground that the majority of us on this site have is that we are LDS. From many many different countries. We believe the same things. To say Americans are different in their beliefs or uneducated(which is what I'm getting from your comments) is offensive. Just because we don't want to entertain your theories.

[truthwalker]

I have read so many bad things about CIA. Iran contra for example. Drug dealings in vietnam where they hide drugs in dead bodies. Drug affairs in central and south america. Killing Allende, John F Kennedy (most probably). Training Usama Bin Ladin in Afghanistan in the 80. Training Fidel Castro in the 60s. Probably training Hugo Chavez. CIA is undermining United States and the constitution. CIA to me what i have read and heard doesnt seem like nice guys. So that mormons are in that organisation at all doesnt sound good in my ears. To much government control will kill you. It is the government who should be afraid of you, not the other way around.

I will give you some quotes.

“There are none so enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.”

Goethe

Quotes: Thomas Jefferson "Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have .... The course of history shows that

as a government grows, liberty decreases."

Quotes: Alan Greenspan "In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation.... The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves.

"Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights...

Quotes: Thomas Jefferson "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

Quotes: Committee of 300 medlemmen Zbigniew Brzezinski "It will soon be possible to assert almost continuous control over every citizen and to maintain up-to-date files containing even the most personal details about health and personal behavior of every citizen, in addition to the more customary data. These files will be subject to instantaneous retrieval by the authorities. Power will gravitate into the hands of those who control information....

This will encourage tendencies through the next several decades toward a Technotronic Era, a dictatorship, leaving even less room for political procedures as we know them. Finally, looking ahead to the end of the century, the possibility of biochemical mind control and genetic tinkering with man, including beings which will function like men and reason like them as well, could give rise to some difficult questions."

Quotes: Dr. Johannes B. Koeppl "The interests behind the Bush Administration, such as the CFR [Council on Foreign Relations], The Trilateral Commission - founded by Brzezinski for David Rockefeller - and the Bilderberger Group, have prepared for, and are now moving to, implement open world dictatorship within the next five years. They are not fighting against terrorists. They are fighting against citizens." Dr. Johannes B. Koeppl, Ph.D., former German defense ministry official and advisor to former NATO Secretary General Manfred Werner. “The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) is the American Branch of a society which originated in England … (and) … believes national boundaries should be obliterated and one-world rule established.”– Professor of History Carroll Quigley, Georgetown University, in his book “Tragedy and Hope”

Anthony C Sutton The Federal Reserve Conspiracy (1995)

"Nothing is more dangerous to the

power of the elite than the public discovery and understanding of the private control of the money supply."

Quotes: Henry Ford "It is well that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for

if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."

Thanks...

[sr_agent_riot]

It sounds to me as though truthwalker enjoys being highly antagonistic.

For one who claims to love the church and follow its precepts, you are awfully quick to force your opinion on others and to claim to have special knowledge of things that likely should be left to individual speculation. While there are some intriguing theories regarding the Nephilim, the pre-existence, etc, they are but that - theories, not proof. Our salvation on this earth at this time is not contingent on our full understanding of such things. We hardly have accurate records on the subject, so it is unwise to postulate too far out.

And I agree with a previous poster that much of what is in the Bible is symbolism. Not all, but quite a bit. Who is to say what is or isn't? Certainly you are no authority on the matter.

Lastly, if you want others to take you seriously, I wouldn't say things such as you love the church, but doubt its leadership. Or use tired and trite stereotypes to describe people from other countries. Not only is it offensive, but it shows that you do not have a good understanding or application of Christ-like principles.

[sr_agent_riot]

I have read so many bad things about CIA. Iran contra for example. Drug dealings in vietnam where they hide drugs in dead bodies. Drug affairs in central and south america. Killing Allende, John F Kennedy (most probably). Training Usama Bin Ladin in Afghanistan in the 80. Training Fidel Castro in the 60s. Probably training Hugo Chavez. CIA is undermining United States and the constitution. CIA to me what i have read and heard doesnt seem like nice guys. So that mormons are in that organisation at all doesnt sound good in my ears. To much government control will kill you. It is the government who should be afraid of you, not the other way around.

The simple fact that you believe this as fact with little or no real evidence to the contrary shows an inherent bias against government, in particular the U.S. government. I'm not saying the U.S. government is perfect or even remotely close to what God's government is like, but it certainly does not employ organizations with the sole purpose of undermining itself and taking away the freedoms of its citizens.

It sounds to me as though you buy into far too many conspiracy theories.

[john doe]

Truth walker, it is sad that you actually believe this stuff you keep spewing.

Yes, it is true that LDS believe in being patriotic to their country, it is an admirable trait to love your country. We do believe in being subject to our country's leaders. That does not mean that we don't work within the system to bring about good works or promote righteousness. Were there LDS members in Hitler's Germany? I don't know, but I would guess that your assertion might be true. But I would also guess that there were far larger numbers of Lutherans, Catholics, and other Christian denominations as well. And I can't imagine that any good LDS members were involved in the death camps. Do you have any evidence of that?

Sure, we have nutjobs in our church, just like any other church has their fair share. Steven Jones would be counted as one of them as far as I'm concerned. He has proven nothing in his conspiracy theory. I don't know who Alex Jones is, so I can't speak to his wackiness, or if he is even LDS.

I won't even address your disdain for Americans. Your wackiness speaks for itself. I fear that there are many Euros who have forgotten what we Americans have sacrificed so that they may enjoy the freedom to speak so poorly of us.

And please, don't muddy the waters by saying that CIA is all LDS, it simply is not true. Do US federal agencies like LDS officers? Yes, that is true, because LDS have a reputation for their honesty and integrity. That does not mean that LDS were involved in killing Kennedy, training Castro or Chavez, or bin Laden as you claim. You made the claim, I ask you to prove it or quit claiming it is true. And don't just drop a link to a nutjob website that makes those claims. Anybody can claim any kind of conspiracy as you have already shown. I want more proof to back up the claim.

Yes, LDS do believe in ongoing revelation, it is one of the cornerstones of our faith. Your mocking of our prophets and our leaders is not something that will sway my belief in our ordained prophets either. Sorry.

I will warn you as a moderator, though, that mocking our prophets and modern revelation is one sure way to earn more moderation infractions quickly.

And just because I don't believe in UFO's doesn't mean that I am asleep. You're the one making the claim, I ask you to prove it.

BTW, you're wrong, God is not a human being. He is a physical being with a much more glorified body than we have. He is a God. He doesn't need spaceships to travel. I suspect He has a much more efficient mode of transport. You need to expand your mind and explore other possibilities. Jesus didn't hop on a spaceship when He rose into the heavens, He just rose up. And don't even try to explain away His miracles, you can't do it. He didn't step on stones that Peter couldn't see, He actually walked upon the water. No machines, He did it through the Power of God.

As for Ezekial's visions, how do you know he wasn't seeing jet planes from today? Those are flying ships with wheels. Not that that's what he saw, I don't know what he saw. He simply gave descriptions of things he had never seen before to people who could not comprehend what he saw.

[funkymonkey]

Its not how we express ourself in Sweden, we are more moderate in general, careful. Of course people are different in all of Europe, and so are people from different states. But when i see an american i instantly recognise you. Dont get me wrong, i like americans, But sometimes. Wake up man. Its not holloywood, its not the tabernacle choir. Its just the fact. realise it. God is a human being, with a star fleet. yes maybe Millenial Falcon :)

Have you even been to America? Why do you feel like you have a right to judge Americans like this?

My mom's from Sweden...been over to Sweden several times. She'd be very embarassed if she read what you were saying. I gotta say, you're not doing the Sweeds any favors right now.

It doesn't take a genius to pick out a foreigner in Sweden...they're the only people in a crowd that aren't white, tall, blonde, and thin.

Not scoring any points with this one.

Edited August 17, 2008 by funkymonkey

[YoungMormonRoyalist]

Exactly what nazi mormons did in Germany

Heinreich Hubener - The youngest man (Age 16) lawfully executed by the Nazi Government for treason and suberversion of the state. He was raised in the church, and active in it. He became a member of the Nazi Party and the Hiter Youth because, let's face it, Hitler helped improve things in Germany after the travesty that was the Treaty of Versaille. However, he protested the outbreak of the war, and began using his position as a minor worker at a government office to secure news of the war and spread it through pamphlets.

At his trial he spoke so well, full of conviction that the Nazi Party was an evil organization, and full of eloquence such that the Gestapo Officer who arrested him asked that he be given only 15 years in prison. But the judges, being fearful of such a charismatic, upstanding man, ordered his execution by guillotine.

As for other saints in Germany, the major membership was concentrated in Hamburg. They were ordered not to sing songs talking of Israel, and were told, straight to their faces that 'after all is settled we are coming for you'.

The only other saint of considerable note in the war was a young sergent (I have the documents and the book with me, but....too tired to look up the name) who accidently called down an artillery strike that somehow managed to obliterate half a Russian division.

So John Doe. what do you think about Steven E Jones and Alex Jones.

My uncle, a non-member and architectural engineer, snorted at the idea that the Twin-towers were demolished in a conspiracy type fashion. He said one of the reasons is that the gas tanks ignited by the crashing tanks heated the steel to such a degree that it lost half its structural integrity, something that would give the impression that it was demolished.

You talk about that you in Utah and US mormons are so educated. Then prove it.

My father is the prinicpal of an educational institute, my mother was a major whistle-blower in a law/government organization. A guy in my ward was the lead economic advisor to Suriname, South America.

Pretty darn educated....but then again, I'm Canadian so the above quote may not apply to me.

And how do you try to change the world, except of preaching the gospel, and preaching the gospel, and preaching the gospel? There must be more things in this world than always preaching the gospel.

There was once the story of a certain man. He spent his life preaching the gospel, and paid for it with his life, submitting himself to the laws of the government which ruled his area of the world, and accepting execution by torture. He advocated paying your taxes, and concerning yourself more with the word of God and living it than bringing down the government. This man could have brought down the government of his area, raised his people in rebellion, but instead he preached that the kingdom of God was not of this world, and is of greater importance than all the ones of this world.

The first man to guess who this was gets major blessing requests to the Big Guy from me.

Im just saying that you are uneducated on nephilim, UFO and New World Order.

UFO - I've always had a pet theory, I don't take it to seriously because it doesn't matter if it's right or not, that there are other planets out there with other people, not really aliens, just people. And that because this is the most wicked world (With also the most righteous), they have had more time to advance than us. Perhaps they've visited here, and some decided to stay. Who knows...it's just a theory, that I personally couldn't care either way about, and I don't even know if I believe. But what I do know is that I'm going to serve a full-time mission, get home, get educated, marry in the temple, and have kids. Do you know why? Because I believe God think's that's more important, and more eternal than UFO's.

As for the New World Order - Yah it's out there, and I think that we know a lot more about it than one thinks. It's a giant secret combination, or a bunch of little ones, something most saints acknowlegdge exist. It's the Kingdom of Satan set up in opposition to the Kingdom of God....conflict in everything you know? A worldly kingdom set up to oppose the heavenly one. The best way to combat it is by preaching the gospel, not through 'fighting fire with fire', for someone truly converted to the teaches of Heavenly Father will not, in good conscience take part in it.

It feels like you are above those things, like you dont need it. You have revelations. You dont need to read my suggestions, because you feel in your heart it is wrong.

Believe me, i have meet 400 missionaires from United States here in Sweden, during my mission i have meet even more. I know you americans, sometimes you just live in a dream fantasy world. Its either black or white, not balanced. everything sugarcoated.

Everything wonderful, amazing, superlatives... Its not how we express ourself in Sweden, we are more moderate in general, careful. Of course people are different in all of Europe, and so are people from different states. But when i see an american i instantly recognise you. Dont get me wrong, i like americans, But sometimes. Wake up man. Its not holloywood, its not the tabernacle choir. Its just the fact. realise it.

I'm sorry, this is just a tad bit too stereo-typical. We need to see past the bounds of nationalities and realize that we are all human beings, all children of god, and especially among the saints, all brothers and sisters.

And yes the world is black and white. The Gospel never talks about shades of grey. Humanity however, is a mix of good and evil, but the two can never mix, they're like oil and water. We are made up of both, but not a mix.

God is a human being, with a star fleet. yes maybe Millenial Falcon :)

God is not of our race, we are a sub-species of his. On a lighter note, does this mean God is played by Harrison Ford?

QUOTE=truthwalker;244051]How can you else explain from the psalms that he have thousands of chariots. What are these chariots? And Hezekiel said they had Wheels. Not feet. How can an angel, a physical being have Wheels? thats a mechanical thing. Explain that to me.. please.[

They could be actual chariots...and chariots usually have wheels....they're kinda useless without them.

[YoungMormonRoyalist]

Also truthwalker, despite the fact that I disagree with you on almost everything....love you bro....and I love your love for us and the gospel.

[truthwalker]

I apologize if it feels that i have offended americans. I can think of ten times more qualites that makes me like you and your country. For many years i have thought of moving to US, but your immigrant laws are quite hard. Yesterday i was on the negative mood, i am a little bit more positive today. Feels good that you love me though. i hope God will cool and ease my mind.