Fullness of Times / Second Coming

[Hemidakota]

There are hundreds of articles and references I could list but I do admire President John Taylor insights to the last days. In his book called 'Government of God', he wrote:

[CHAPTER XII]

"Second, we hear the Lord God pronounce the earth, as well as every thing else, very good. From this we learn that there were neither deserts, barren places, stagnant swamps, rough, broken, rugged hills, nor vast mountains covered with eternal snow; and no part of it was located in the frigid zone, so as to render its climate dreary and unproductive, subject to eternal frost, or everlasting chains of ice,—

Where no sweet flowers the dreary landscape cheer,

Nor plenteous harvests crown the passing year;

but the whole earth was probably one vast plain, or interspersed with gently rising hills, and sloping vales, well calculated for cultivation; while its climate was delightfully varied, with the moderate changes of heat and cold, of wet and dry, which only tended to crown the varied year, with the greater variety of productions, all for the good of man, animal, fowl, or creeping thing; while from the flowery plain, or spicy grove, sweet odours were wafted on every breeze; and all the vast creation of animated being breathed nought but health, and peace, and joy.

"Next, we learn from Genesis 1:29, 30,—'And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree, yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.' From these verses we learn, that the earth yielded neither nauseous weeds nor poisonous plants, nor useless thorns and thistles; indeed, every thing that grew was just calculated for the food of man' beast, fowl, and creeping thing; and their food was all vegetable; flesh and blood were never sacrificed to glut their souls, or gratify their appetites; the beasts of the earth were all in perfect harmony with each other; the lion ate straw like the ox—the wolf dwelt with the lamb—the leopard lay down with the kid—the cow and bear fed together, in the same pasture, while their young ones reposed, in perfect security, under the shade of the same trees; all was peace and harmony, and nothing to hurt nor disturb, in all the holy mountain.

"And to crown the whole, we behold man created in the image of God, and exalted in dignity and power, having dominion over all the vast creation of animated beings, which swarmed through the earth, while, at the same time, he inhabits a beautiful and well-watered garden, in the midst of which stood the tree of life, to which he had free access; while he stood in the presence of his Maker, conversed with him face to face, and gazed upon his glory, without a dimming veil between. O reader, contemplate, for a moment, this beautiful creation, clothed with peace and plenty; the earth teeming with harmless animals, rejoicing over all the plain; the air swarming with delightful birds, whose never ceasing notes filled the air with varied melody; and all in subjection to their rightful sovereign who rejoiced over them; while, in a delightful garden—the capitol of creation,—man was seated on the throne of his vast empire, swaying his sceptre over all the earth, with undisputed right; while legions of angels encamped round about him, and joined their glad voices, in grateful songs of praise, and shouts of joy; neither a sigh nor groan was heard, throughout the vast expanse; neither was there sorrow, tears, pain, weeping, sickness, nor death; neither contentions, wars, nor bloodshed; but peace crowned the seasons as they rolled, and life, joy, and love, reigned over all his works. But, O! how changed the scene.

"It now becomes my painful duty, to trace some of the important changes, which have taken place, and the causes which have conspired to reduce the earth and its inhabitants to their present state.

"First, man fell from his standing before God, by giving heed to temptation; and this fall affected the whole creation, as well as man, and caused various changes to take place; he was banished from the presence of his Creator, and a veil was drawn between them, and he was driven from the garden of Eden, to till the earth, which was then cursed for man's sake, and should begin to bring forth thorns and thistles; and with the sweat of his face he should earn his bread, and in sorrow eat of it, all the days of his life, and finally return to dust. But as to Eve, her curse was a great multiplicity of sorrow and conception; and between her seed, and the seed of the serpent, there was to be a constant enmity; it should bruise the serpent's head, and the serpent should bruise his heel.

"Now, reader, contemplate the change. This scene, which was so beautiful a little before, had now become the abode of sorrow and toil, of death and mourning: the earth groaning with its production of accursed thorns and thistles; man and beast at enmity; the serpent slily creeping away, fearing lest his head should get the deadly bruise; and man startling amid the thorny path, in fear, lest the serpent's fangs should pierce his heel; while the lamb yields his blood upon the smoking altar. Soon man begins to persecute, hate, and murder his fellow; until at length the earth is filled with violence; all flesh becomes corrupt, the powers of darkness prevail; and it repented Noah that God had made man, and it grieved him at his heart, because the Lord should come out in vengeance, and cleanse the earth by water.

"How far the flood may have contributed, to produce the various changes, as to the division of the earth into broken fragments, islands and continents, mountains and valleys, we have not been informed; the change must have been considerable. But after the flood, in the days of Peleg, the earth was divided.—See Genesis 10:25,—a short history, to be sure, of so great an event; but still it will account for the mighty revolution, which rolled the sea from its own place in the north, and brought it to interpose between different portions of the earth, which were thus parted asunder, and moved into something near their present form; this, together with the earthquakes, revolutions, and commotions which have since taken place, have all contributed to reduce the face of the earth to its present state; while the great curses which have fallen upon different portions, because of the wickedness of men, will account for the stagnant swamps, the sunken lakes, the dead seas, and great deserts.

"Witness, for instance, the denunciations of the prophets upon Babylon, how it was to become perpetual desolations, a den of wild beasts, a dwelling of unclean and hateful birds, a place for owls; and should never be inhabited, but should lie desolate from generation to generation. Witness also the plains of Sodom, filled with towns, cities, and flourishing gardens, well watered: but O, how changed! a vast sea of stagnant water alone marks the place. Witness the land of Palestine; in the days of Solomon it was capable of sustaining millions of people, besides a surplus of wheat, and other productions, which were exchanged with the neighbouring nations; whereas, now it is desolate, and hardly capable of sustaining a few miserable inhabitants. And when I cast mine eyes over our own land, and see the numerous swamps, lakes, and ponds of stagnant waters, together with the vast mountains and innumerable rough places; rocks having been rent, and torn asunder, from centre to circumference; I exclaim, Whence all this?

"When I read the Book of Mormon, it informs me, that while Christ was crucified among the Jews, this whole American continent was shaken to its foundation, that many cities were sunk, and waters came up in their places; that the rocks were all rent in twain; that mountains were thrown up to an exceeding height; and other mountain became vallies: the level roads spoiled; and the whole face of the land changed.—I then exclaim, These things are no longer a mystery; I have now learned to account for the many wonders, which I everywhere behold, throughout our whole country; when I am passing a ledge of rocks, and see they have all been rent and torn asunder, while some huge fragments are found deeply imbedded in the earth, some rods from whence they were torn, I exclaim, with astonishment, These were the groans! the convulsive throes of agonizing nature! while the Son of God suffered upon the cross!

"But men have degenerated, and greatly changed, as well as the earth. The sins, the abominations, and the many evil habits of the latter ages, have added to the miseries, toils, and sufferings of human life. The idleness, extravagance, pride, covetousness, drunkenness, and other abominations, which are characteristics of the latter times, have all combined to sink mankind to the lowest state of wretchedness and degradation; while priestcraft and false doctrines, have greatly tended to lull mankind to sleep, and caused them to rest, infinitely short of the powers and attainments which the ancients did enjoy, and which are alone calculated to exalt the intellectual powers of the human mind, to establish noble and generous sentiments, to enlarge the heart, and to expand the soul to the utmost extent of its capacity. Witness the ancients, conversing with the Great Jehovah, learning lessons from the angels, and receiving instruction by the Holy Ghost, in dreams by night, and visions by day, until at length the veil is taken off, and they permitted to gaze, with wonder and admiration, upon all things past and future; yea, even to soar aloft amid unnumbered worlds; while the vast expanse of eternity stands open before them, and they contemplate the mighty works of the Great I AM, until they know as they are known, and see as they are seen.

"Compare this intelligence, with the low smatterings of education and worldly wisdom, which seem to satisfy the narrow mind of man in our generation; yea, behold the narrow-minded, calculating, trading, overreaching, penurious sycophant, of the nineteenth century, who dreams of nothing here, but how to increase his goods, or take advantage of his neighbour; and whose only religious exercises or duties consist of going to meeting, paying the priest his hire, or praying to his God, without expecting to be heard or answered, supposing that God has been deaf and dumb for many centuries, or altogether stupid and indifferent like himself. And having seen the two contrasted, you will be able to form some idea of the vast elevation from which man has fallen; you will also learn, how infinitely beneath his former glory and dignity, he is now living, and your heart will mourn, and be exceedingly sorrowful, when you contemplate him in his low estate—and then think he is your brother; and you will be ready to exclaim, with wonder and astonishment, O man! how art thou fallen! once thou wast the favourite of Heaven; thy Maker delighted to converse with thee, and angels and the spirits of just men made perfect were thy companions; but now thou art degraded, and brought down on a level with the beasts; yea, far beneath them, for they look with horror and affright at your vain amusements, your sports and your drunkenness, and thus often set an example worthy of your imitation. Well did the apostle Peter say of you, that you know nothing, only what you know naturally as brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed. And thus you perish, from generation to generation. While all creation groans under its pollution; and sorrow and death, mourning and weeping, fill up the measure of the days of man. but O my soul, dwell no longer on this awful scene: let it suffice, to have discovered in some degree, what is lost. Let us turn our attention to what the Prophets have said should be restored.

"The Apostle Peter, while preaching to the Jews, says, 'And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you, whom the heavens must receive, until the times of restitution (restoration) of all things which God hath spoken, by the mouth of all the holy prophets, since the world began.' It appears from the above, that all the holy prophets from Adam, and those that follow after, have had their eyes upon a certain time, when all things should be restored to their primitive beauty and excellence. We also learn, that the time of restitution was to be at or near the time of Christ's second coming; for the heavens are to receive him, until the times of restitution, and then the Father shall send him again to the earth.

"We will now proceed to notice Isaiah 40:1-5. 'Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God. Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the Lord's hand. double for all her sins. The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.'

"From these verses we learn, first, that the voice of one shall be heard in the wilderness, to prepare the way of the Lord, just at the time when Jerusalem has been trodden down of the Gentiles long enough to have received, at the Lord's hand, double for all her sins, yea, when the warfare of Jerusalem is accomplished, and her iniquities pardoned; then shall this proclamation be made as it was before by John, yea, a second proclamation, to prepare the way of the Lord, for his second coming; and about that time every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low, and the crooked shall be made straight, and rough places plain, and then the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together, for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

"Thus you see, every mountain being laid low, and every valley exalted, and the rough places being made plain, and the crooked places straight, that these mighty revolutions will begin to restore the face of the earth to its former beauty. But all this done, we have not yet gone through our restoration; there are many more great things to be done, in order to restore all things.

"Our next is Isaiah 35th chapter, where we again read of the Lord's second coming, and of the mighty works which attend it. The barren desert should abound with pools and springs of living water, and should produce grass, with flowers blooming and blossoming as the rose, and that, too, about the time of the coming of their God, with vengeance and recompense, which must allude to his second coming; and Israel is to come at the same time to Zion, with songs of everlasting joy, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away. Here, then, we have the curse taken off from the deserts, and they become a fruitful, well-watered country.

"We will now inquire whether the islands return again to the continents, from which they were once separated. For this subject we refer you to Revelation vi. 14,—'And every mountain and island were moved out of their places.' From this we learn that they moved somewhere; and as it is the time of restoring what had been lost, they accordingly return and join themselves to the land whence they came.

"Our next is Isaiah 13:13, 14, where 'The earth shall move out of her place, and be like a chased roe which no man taketh up.' Also, Isaiah 62:4, 'Thou shalt no more be termed forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed desolate; but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the Lord delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.'

"In the first instance, we have the earth on a move like a chased roe; and in the second place, we have it married. And from the whole, and various Scriptures, we learn, that the continents and islands shall be united in one, as they were on the morn of creation, and the sea shall retire and assemble in its own place, where it was before; and all these scenes shall take place during the mighty convulsion of nature, about the time of the coming of the Lord.

"Behold! the Mount of Olives rend in twain:

While on its top he sets his feet again,

The islands at his word, obedient, flee;

While to the north, he rolls the mighty sea;

Restores the earth in one, as at the first,

With all its blessings, and removes the curse.

"Having restored the earth to the same glorious state in which it first existed; levelling the mountains, exalting the valleys, smoothing the rough places, making the deserts fruitful, and bringing all the continents and islands together, causing the curse to be taken off, that it shall no longer produce noxious weeds, and thorns, and thistles; the next thing is to regulate and restore the brute creation to their former state of peace and glory, causing all enmity to cease from off the earth. But this will never be done until there is a general destruction poured out upon man, which will entirely cleanse the earth, and sweep all wickedness from its face. This will be done by the rod of his mouth, and by the breath of his lips; or, in other words, by fire as universal as the flood. Isaiah 11:4, 6-9, 'But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf, and the young lion, and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 'And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice's den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.'

"Thus, having cleansed the earth, and glorified it with the knowledge of God, as the waters cover the sea, and having poured out his Spirit upon all flesh, both man and beast becoming perfectly harmless, as they were in the beginning, and feeding on vegetable food only, while nothing is left to hurt or destroy in all the vast creation, the prophets then proceed to give us many glorious descriptions of the enjoyments of its inhabitants. 'They shall build houses and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine of them; they shall plant gardens and eat the fruit of them; they shall not build and another inhabit; they shall not plant and another eat; for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth in trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them; and it shall come to pass, that before they call I will answer, and while they are yet speaking I will hear.' In this happy state of existence it seems that all people will live to the full age of a tree, and this too without pain or sorrow, and whatsoever they ask will be immediately answered, and even all their wants will be anticipated. Of course, then, none of them will sleep in the dust, for they will prefer to be translated; that is changed in the twinkling of an eye, from mortal to immortal; after which they will continue to reign with Jesus on the earth." Pp. 110-122.

[funkymonkey]

-What happens at the beginning of the Seventh Seal? That is the key....

Rev 8:1

"1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour."

I this what you are referring to?

I'm a little mixed up between the 6th and 7th. The 6th seal shows this...

Rev 6:12-17

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great aday of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Thoughts on this?

[HiJolly]

Perhaps more correctly, "all things are .... into one great whole." That takes away many of the fears and tears.

Oh, very nice!!

"fears" --- "ogre"

"tears" -- "onion".

VERY NICE!!

HiJolly

[justamere10]

Also there is talk that the gospel will be taught among ALL nations... China is a pretty big country and I don't see them allowing the gospel anytime soon. Same for Cuba. Comments?

It's mere speculation on my part but it is possible that we will take the gospel to every nation, kindred, tongue and people by doing cyber missionary work.

The Church does have branches in mainland China right now but we are not allowed to proselyte there. We could register but that would give the Chinese government the right to appoint our bishops and branch presidents. The Church has a very good relationship with the government in Beijing and carefully abides by their laws.

Having recently served as a senior missionary in Macau, China I am aware of the eagerness for the gospel of some of the mainland Chinese. We are allowed to proselyte in Hong Kong and Macau.

[Hemidakota]

Rev 8:1

"1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour."

I this what you are referring to?

In Richard Draper's book, Opening the Seven Seals, he wrote;

SILENCE IN HEAVEN (vv. 1-4)

1. And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

2. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

3. And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

4. And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

The interlude over, John resumes where chapter six left off. But once again, there is no clash of thunder, no outpouring of wrath. The Lamb breaks the seventh seal; the scroll of destiny lies open, but quiet prevails. God's testament, his will for the nations, stands ready to be executed. The day of judgment has come. The world will now receive its inheritance and just reward. Six thousand years of indifference, of carelessness toward God, of transgression, of deliberate corruption of his ways, of willfull rejection and sometimes slaughter of his prophets, of conscious rebellion and evil—all these will now receive their just compensation.

As the seal is broken, "there is silence in heaven for the space of about half an hour" (v. 1, AT). A solemn moment intervenes before judgment commences. Nothing breaks the solitude, but tension builds as seven angels, as captains over a host, receive seven trumpets and prepare to give their commands. The image of the trumpets creates a feeling of foreboding, for soon their blast will shatter the world. But an interval is needed: a period of preparation, of devotion and worship, of readying before heaven executes God's will, a moment of mourning for a world sick unto death.

John sees an angel approach the altar in heaven holding a golden censer, "and there was given to him much incense, consisting of the prayers of all saints" (v. 3, AT). 2 Thus, both heaven and earth, angels and Saints, combine to create a holy crescendo of expectant, if painful, silence. Never has heaven been filled with the sweet smell of earthly prayers as now. The moment of anguished calm is about to end. But the silence will not end until the heavenly priest, the mighty angel, performs at the altar a priesthood act—the judgment of the nations.

The theological importance of the half hour of silence is derived from the Old Testament. In Habakkuk 2:20, the prophet commands, "the Lord is in his holy temple: let all the earth keep silence before him" (KJV). Then follows a description of the Lord moving in glory and anger against wickedness. The day of judgment has arrived. Zechariah also commands silence as the Lord arouses from his holy dwelling (2:13). Zephaniah does the same thing, "For the day of the Lord is at hand: for the Lord hath prepared a sacrifice" (1:7, KJV), and will move against the wicked (see 1:7-18). In each of these three instances, the silence heralds a wrathful theophany and may indicate a period of mourning before calamity. The Doctrine and Covenants supports this view. The Lord states:

But the day soon cometh that ye shall see me, and know that I am; for the veil of darkness shall soon be rent, and he that is not purified shall not abide the day. . . . For all flesh is corrupted before me; and the powers of darkness prevail upon the earth, among the children of men, in the presence of all the hosts of heaven—Which causeth silence to reign, and all eternity is pained, and the angels are waiting the great command to reap down the earth, to gather the tares that they may be burned (38:8, 11-12).

Doctrine and Covenants 88:95 also speaks of a half hour of silence associated with the last days. In this case, it follows the acts of judgment and immediately precedes the coming of the Lord. Though it is out of position with that of Revelation, it carries the same import: it signals a theophany, but this time of total victory.

The period of silence, the Seer states, lasted "about half an hour" (AT). The idea of approximation is clear in the Greek: The word used, hs, means "approximately" or "nearly."Thus, getting an exact fix on the amount of time John had in mind is impossible. The half hour, it has been speculated, may actually approach twenty-one years, based on the Lord's time being 1,000 years to the day (see Abr. 3:4; 2 Pet. 3:8). If such is correct, it will be a period when all will seem to be at rest, a return to the normal after the pounding taken during the sixth seal. The earth will cease to shake, the stars to fall, and the cosmos will return to a definite pattern. However, no matter what the duration, wickedness will not cease. Therefore, the half hour represents a short interval during which angels and Saints prepare in sorrow for the sentence of destruction to be executed upon the world.

One idea stands out: this is the period in which the heavenly and earthly churches of God will be linked as never before, a period in which the Saints will make their final preparation for what is to come. The Doctrine and Covenants states, "The servants of God shall go forth, saying with a loud voice: Fear God and give glory to him, for the hour of his judgment is come; and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters—calling upon the name of the Lord day and night, saying: O that thou wouldst rend the heavens, that thou wouldst come down, that the mountains might flow down at thy presence" (133:38-40). The devastations that follow will be, at least in part, a response to this prayer of God's servants. Thus, the righteous will not be caught off guard. They will follow the Lord's admonition: "The coming of the Lord draweth nigh, and it overtaketh the world as a thief in the night—therefore, gird up your loins, that you may be the children of light, and that day shall not overtake you as a thief" (D&C 106:4-5).

Things to think about....:)

[Hemidakota]

Rev 8:1

I'm a little mixed up between the 6th and 7th. The 6th seal shows this...

Rev 6:12-17

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great aday of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Thoughts on this?

Nothing given below is an official representation on church doctrine...

Interesting! To explain the meaning of departed as a scroll, it would be better to show it in its entirety then that phrase.What I see, as the Lamb broke it, a terrible scene of earthly events met the eyes of John. There is a tremendous earthquake rocked the planet, affecting every mountain and island. Looking back in history, this happened before when the Savior's was crucified. Then, the Sun ceased to shine, the moon hung blood red, and the stars seemed to fall from heaven. Utilizing ancient Jewish thought, earthly or cosmic order is co-depended upon man's obedience to God. They felt that when man became so wicked that he attempted to set up his own system against God, the cosmic constellations or the earth would abandon their harmony and the universe and world would begin to disintegrate (see, e.g., Ps. 19) around them. John's point seems to be that man cannot sin without influencing heaven and the earth (cf. Moses 7:28, 37, 48). You can clearly see, the cosmos will echo back thes unholy deeds.

Not every detail is to be taken literally as you can read. A good example, the moon will not become blood. (John prophesied that the moon would become red, the color of the second horse, and the sun black, the color of the third.) But behind the symbol stands reality. The cosmos around the planet really does react to events on earth, and the earth itself reacts through great convulsions. Something that happened to the previous creation of this planet when it failed in the development of the animal kingdom.

Moving on, biblical recordings regularly associated earthquakes with divine visitation. Remember when God revealed his presence on Mount Sinai to Moses? It reads, "the whole mount quaked greatly" (Ex. 19:18, KJV). Even Isaiah stated that men would hide in caves from the terror of the Lord "when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth" (Isa. 2:19, KJV). "For thus saith the Lord of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land; and I will shake all nations" (Hag. 2:6-7, KJV). By using earthquakes, the Lord shows his power as He begins to warn the nations of the earth. Such power will be sufficiently terrifying to drive men to wish for death rather than face vengeance as John depicted. John's symbols as written, dramatically convey great natural disasters that will bring the sixth millennium to a close and act as forerunners to the final catastrophes.

Next, the Lord revealed to Joseph Smith those events destined to occur as the sixth seal closed: "Not many days hence and the earth shall tremble and reel to and fro as a drunken man; and the sun shall hide his face, and shall refuse to give light; and the moon shall be bathed in blood; and the stars shall become exceedingly angry, and shall cast themselves down as a fig that falleth from off a fig-tree" (D&C 88:87; see also Isa. 34:4). On another occasion the Lord said, "Before that great day shall come, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon be turned into blood; and the stars shall refuse their shining, and some shall fall, and great destructions await the wicked" (D&C 34:9).

Using some statements on this subject from Elder McConkie, he states that "some heavenly meteors or other objects, appearing as stars, will fall 'unto the earth.' In witnessing the events of that day shall be beyond human experience, that prophets who seen this vision were total loss for words to describe those events conveyed by the Spirit of revelation." The threat of the awesome desolation of the world will bring all to their knees.

Another event will transpire of such consequence that only symbolic language can describe it: "The heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together" (v. 14, KJV).

John gives the heaven an attribute of a flexible material that can be withdrawn by being rolled up like an ancient scroll. Without seeing it for ourselve for a clear meaning, what is meant here is still unknown. The Greek word apochorizein does not mean to split or rend, but to remove to another place. This goes along the same line as the article called the 'The Kolob Theorem". The present heaven, from the standpoint of those on earth, will be removed (see Mark 13:31; 2 Pet. 3:10) or the earth will be moved to another location that is not part of this solar system. Doctrine and Covenants 88:95 suggests that after the folding up of the heavens, there shall be an unfolding in which "the face of the Lord shall be unveiled."

Look closer at what John noted with the seven consequences for the wickedness of mankind:

(1) the earthquake,

(2) the darkened sun,

(3) the reddening of the moon,

(4) the stars falling,

(5) the heavens rolling up,

(6) the mountains and islands moving out of their places, and

(7) the universal consternation of mankind.

Further, John includes seven classes of men who will be affected:

(1) kings,

(2) great men,

(3) rich men,

(4) chief captains,

(5) mighty men,

(6) bondmen, and

(7) free men.

In conclusion, using such a number - SEVEN - seems to be deliberate on John's part. Seven emphasizes the idea of completeness: no enemy of God, no matter how high or low birth, will escape the wrath of the Savior. He will move in his fury when patience ceases to be a virtue: "It shall come to pass, because of the wickedness of the world, that I will take vengeance upon the wicked, for they will not repent; for the cup of mine indignation is full; for behold, my blood shall not cleanse them if they hear me not" (D&C 29:17).

If we believe in the three degree of glories as described by both Paul and Joseph Smith, when the Earth becomes Terrestrialize, I seriously doubt this planet will reside in the same sphere of the Telestial worlds. As to those who are embodied as Telestial cannot abide with those who are Terrestrial.

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

OK, so I've been reading about the calamities and stuff that happen...got a couple of questions.

- Someone said that we are in the seventh seal... after what I have read I believe we are still in the sixth. Anyone have any comments as to why it would be the seventh?

- Also it sounds like a LOT of righteous people will die just in the commotion and calamity that is supposed to happen. So to me, even if I see this stuff in my lifetime it's pretty unlikely that I live through it all.

What seal you perceive this world to be in depends a lot upon how you interpret the scriptures. I presented a reference to D&C 38 which seams to suggest an interpretation conducive to the 7th seal having been opened. As Hemi said, what happens in the beginning of the 7th seal is the key. Below I offer one of my theoretical interpretations.

1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

- D&C 38 Tells how the heavens were silenced by the abominations of the Earth. It also states that the "Angels are waiting the great command to reap the earth".

2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

- In Hebrew tradition, trumpets often represent revelation.

3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

- Incense represents prayer, the smoke of the incense (the prayer) rising up to the Lord.

4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel’s hand.

- as above.

5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

- This is the big one. According to the Law of Moses, ashes and blood were often sprinkled or "cast" as a sign of purification. In the Old Testament the word "voice" most often refers to the "Voice of the Lord" usually through one of His prophets. Very often the voice of the Lord is heard as a great thunder.

- I suggest that this verse, in conjunction with the preceding 2 verses may be talking about the restoration of the Gospel. The laws and ordinances for worship (incense/prayer) will be restored, revelation and prophets (voices) will be restored, the Lord's voice (prophets, revelation) will echo around the world as thunder and the whole world will tremble (earthquake) at His word. These are things that are happening right now. And what better way to purify the Saints than to restore the whole Gospel? How better to seperate the wheat from the chaff than by the preaching of the word?

6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

- once the Gospel has been restored and filled the whole world, the 7 angels will sound and the tribulation will begin.

This is one interpretation, out of literally thousands. I recommend that you study and pray and find your own interpretation through personal revelation.

The fun part, now, is going back to the 6th seal and discovering what the symbolism there means to our history :)

[Prodigal_Son]

Excuse my late arrival. I just cruised through this thread and wanted to comment a bit:

I visited Jerusalem earlier this year and was taken to a different Garden of Gethsemane than the one most tourists are taken to. My guide told me that is where the Twelve ask to be taken when they visit. The guide himself has witnessed miraculous things happen there.

I'm a tour guide to Israel and have never heard this. Moreover, Kimball and Lee both declared the "Garden Tomb" the site. I'd be very interested in any "new" information you may have...

is there any advisement from the church and keeping money in banks?

When the banks crash, paper money will only be good for burning to keep warm.

Often the question would be asked when would the New Year begin?... It was not that an expert would not know when the events would occur only that the signs were difficult to see for the final sign and witness.

I submit that many righteous will look forward to and know the day when Jesus will return. For example – when two prophets are killed on the streets of Jerusalem I will be able to tell you what day Jesus will come. When they rise from the dead – I will be able to tell you the hour. When certain events occur I will be able to tell you what year he will return. I believe I can tell you that Jesus will not come within the next couple of years.

I'm going to respectfully disagree. Modern revelation has reiterated that NO MAN KNOWS. And based on prophecies regarding the state of the world when the 2 are killed in the streets, it is unlikely that you will even know the murders happened.

Someone said that we are in the seventh seal... after what I have read I believe we are still in the sixth.

The seals, as I'm sure you're aware represent the 1,000 year dispensations. the big exciting events happen at the beginning of the 7th seal. The seal is opened, but unless we can fathom what Heavenly Father considers to be "the beginning" of this thousand years, speculation could be rampant.

Edited September 7, 2008 by Prodigal_Son

[justamere10]

Excuse my late arrival. I just cruised through this thread and wanted to comment a bit:

I'm a tour guide to Israel and have never heard this. Moreover, Kimball and Lee both declared the "Garden Tomb" the site. I'd be very interested in any "new" information you may have...

I was referring of course to the Garden of Gethsemane and not the Garden Tomb.

There's no secret to it, the Garden of Gethsemane that I was taken to is just further up the hill from the commercial one. Go to the commercial gate and walk up the hill along the narrow road (possibly the road Jesus rode the donkey on?) The entrance to the Garden I was taken to is on the right side.

On the left as you walk up the hill are open fields with many red poppies "lilies of the field" in them during their season. If I recall correctly we went through an iron gate, you've probably been there. (Watch out for thieves, I chased one off who climbed a steep wall to reach over and grab a bag while we talked...)

I was told that the Garden Tomb was offered for sale to the LDS Church but the Brethren declined because if a specific church owned the site some other churches might not take their tour groups there.

The Garden Tomb is the right place, I have that witness too, as probably do many other people who have been there, it's undeniable.

By way of factual evidence, the round stone on display would fit into the groove but would not cover today's full height entrance. The NT states that you had to stoop to get into the tomb. Look at the sides of the door opening and see that they are smooth to the height of the round stone, then jagged where the entrance was heightened later (possibly for American tourists :-)

I was told that Roman soldiers had to be at least 5'7" tall to serve in Palestine so they would tower over the shorter Jews. And that Christ was taller than the Roman soldiers.

Next time you are inside the tomb, notice that a notch is cut where the feet of the body were laid, so that the body of a man who was taller than 6' could be placed there without bending the legs.

But above all, feel for the Spirit if you get a chance to be alone or with just a few other faithful Saints inside the tomb with the door shut as I had. You can never forget that experience, you do not want to leave the place of the first resurrection!

Do you have a website describing your tours?

[Prodigal_Son]

I was referring of course to the Garden of Gethsemane and not the Garden Tomb.

Oops. I forsook my Sunday nap to discover this forum. Maybe I shoulda slept.

There's no secret to it, the Garden of Gethsemane that I was taken to is just further up the hill from the commercial one. Go to the commercial gate and walk up the hill along the narrow road (possibly the road Jesus rode the donkey on?) The entrance to the Garden I was taken to is on the right side.

The area directly across (to the south) from the Orson Hyde Memorial Park?

Do you have a website describing your tours?

I shall forbear for the moment and beg off - because I'm working with a partner on starting my own biz. We've been working for another company doing these tours, and are looking to start our own, so as to do things "our" way. I'll be taking another tour through over Thanksgiving.

[justamere10]

Oops. I forsook my Sunday nap to discover this forum. Maybe I shoulda slept.

The area directly across (to the south) from the Orson Hyde Memorial Park?

The easiest way I can describe to get to it is to take a taxi or bus or whatever to the "Garden of Gethsemane". You will be dropped off close to a gate where you have to pay a fee. Instead of going through that gate, walk straight up the hill along the very narrow paved road. The Garden of Gethesemane that I am referring to is on the right, accessed via a gate with no guard and no hand reaching for your shekels.

But be reverent there, it is reported that miracles take place in that location, though I personally witnessed none, possibly because I was watching for more thieves. :)

I encourage everyone who hasn't yet been to Israel to take a tour there if they can afford the humungous fees those tour guides charge.

I arrived in Israel after crossing the Sinai and under the Suez Canal in a small van with three Egyptian men to protect me from them or them from me, not sure which. :-) Soon after crossing into Israel I witnessed a naval gun battle and heavy artillery fire soon after. But only once did we have to stay out of Old Jerusalem and the same day have to detour to avoid a stone throwing mob two blocks ahead. But there are armed Israelis everywhere so if something happens just hit the dirt and it will very soon be over. I felt completely safe and at home in Israel. Most tourists probably notice nothing untoward, I happened to be there when Israeli tanks were moving into Gaza, an unusually tense time.

Crossing from the barren Egyptian wasteland into Israel is a huge treat. The Israelis have changed the climate and made their desert blossom as the rose. They planted 200 million trees and seeded the clouds so that today Jerusalem gets more rainfall than Salt Lake City. A beautiful testament to the power of industriousness and cooperation, and a common pressing enemy to unite a population that arrived with a huge diversity of cultures and beliefs.

Galilee especially is very beautiful and looking down on Armageddon from upper Nazareth will raise the hair on your head as you contemplate what has happened there and what is about to take place.

Go to Jerusalem if you can, the guides are actually very good, you'll be safe, have lots of fun, and may even come to know for yourself that the Savior still visits there sometimes...