Most Stress in 35 years of marriage...

[BenRaines]

Male hormones raging? That is the reason for irresponsibility? I know it can cause problems but did not realize it caused traffic offenses and not taking care of them.

Ben Raines

[mightynancy]

I think a discussion like this is a good heads-up for parents of younger children. Teach your kids that actions have consequences while they are young and the stakes are low. Let them be responsible. Let them learn the satisfaction that comes from finding a solution. Let them see that there's a way out that doesn't include a rescue, but does include work and compromise.

Third grader forgot his homework? Let him work it out with his teacher.

Little girl carelessly broke something? Let her work to earn the money for restitution.

If you step in and rescue them when they're little, how can you expect them to take responsibility when they're older? When do you stop bailing them out?

[applepansy]

Male hormones raging? That is the reason for irresponsibility? I know it can cause problems but did not realize it caused traffic offenses and not taking care of them.

Ben Raines

No Ben, raging hormones are not the reason for irresponsibility but they are the reason boys "dont't think" before they act. I do not want to speculate on why my son chose to ignore the tickets he received. I'm not in his head. . .he has me baffled and even now at age 23 he still has me baffled. I still can't figure out how this kid thinks.

Raging teenage male hormones cause more than just babies. Statistically more teenage boys get into trouble between the ages of 14 and 20 than girls and its not just with sex. Its with cars and going fast, and doing more and daring more. This is changing with the times though. . . Girls want to be where the boys are. The old "boys will be boys" is becoming "girls will be girls" and I even heard someone say that to excuse bad behavior.

It very important to teach our children while they are young. But we need to remember that they too have their agency. We have our agency the day we are born, it isn't magically bestowed upon us at age 18. We cannot force our solutions on our children, but we can be there to help them find their own . . . and hopefully they learn before age 18.

My grandmother used to tell me "You can't put old heads on young shoulders" when I tried to insist my oldest son to do things my way.

Matt. 13: 9, 15-16, 43

9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

15 For this people’s aheart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

I wish our childrens' ears and eyes weren't so full of worldly things which often drown out their parents and leaders voices.

I hope that those who have rebellious or irresponsible adult children will find hope in knowing they aren't alone.

applepansy

[applepansy]

Often, we as parents, make it too comfortable for our children to want to leave home.

Ben Raines

First, I agree. Second, sometimes no matter how uncomfortable parents try to make it . . . adult kids can't be dislodged.

My parents moved from a 5 bedroom home to a three bedroom apartment . . . didn't work . . . Next move was to a one bedroom apartment . . . That worked!!!

applepansy

[justme78]

But I'm not going to let him go to jail over traffic tickets and I'm not going to let him live on the streets. A roof, a warm bed, food and a ride to work is where I draw the line.

The one thing that seems to be missing from this is what you have the right to expect. Even as your child, you SHOULD let him go to jail over traffic tickets, and you SHOULD let him live on the streets if he is not giving you the respect that you deserve for the help that you provided.

Now...jail and homelessness is a bit of an exaggeration, but it seems that he has a few too many "perks" if you ask me. The WoW account he's not paying for. Why does it have it to play? Is it his computer or is it yours? If it is his...why does he still own it when he could use money from it's sale to go towards paying you back? Why is he spending money going on dates when there are LOTS of free and fun things that can be done? These are the things that I don't understand.

Now...I'm not married yet. At 30, however, I *have* dealt with a situation where my "best friend" was living with me and literally sucking away every ounce of energy I had. Long story short...my time has always been stretched thin...but it it's even remotely possible I will do everything that I can for just about anyone. Not a good trait...I'm working on boundaries. In this particular situation...she had been evicted. She literally has no family, and no other friends who could take her in. I stayed up all night on no notice completely clearing out a room for her, and when it came down to it, I even allowed her to bring her 2 cats (which I'm *extremely* allergic to) on the condition that they stay in her room until she could make other arrangements.

Things went downhill from there. She ended up being hospitalized in the psych ward for 10 days due to her depression. At the time, I was playing a single working mom of 4 kids 45 minutes away from where she was being hospitalized. Every day I left work, went straight out to my brother's house to make sure the kids got dinner, then stopped at my house to pick things up for her (she realized new things that she needed *every* day), then drove up to the hospital to make sure she had a visitor for the 1 hour she was allowed (I will admit that I was late sometimes). I would then turn around to get home in time to get the kids to bed, crash, and wake up to be back at work at 7am the next day again to do it all again.

When she got out of the hospital, the only thing she could tell me was how I had abandoned her. I could not believe my ears. Because she could tell that I was stressed when I would come to see her...that was considered abandonment. It was as if any sacrifice made by me to be there in the first place didn't exist. I tried to understand her emotional state at the time...and allowed her to stay (again, she literally had nowhere to go). My not giving her ground rules at that point...my not demanding appreciation or at the VERY least the respect that I deserved in my own home...was my downfall. That would have resolved the situation at that time one way or another. As time went on, I would come from from work knowing that she had let her cats wander around my condo (again...allergic), knowing that I would be doing her dishes again, knowing that the money that I had loaned her (and many of her other friends as I had later found out) was being spent on eating out at least 2 meals every day because she didn't want anything that was in the house or getting her nails done because she needed *something* to make her happy. She was even offering to buy things for the guy that she liked to try to "buy" his love at the time.

Sorry this is so long, I just wanted to explain where my experience came from because it's different from yours, but so very similar in the way it it being handled. I didn't have a marriage for her to ruin...but it was literally taking a toll on *everything* else in my life. I couldn't get things done at work. I was getting snippy with everyone else all the time. I was getting to a point where I was literally questioning my own sanity.

Lack of appreciation for what you're doing and the lack of respect that he seems to have for you, your wife, and your house are the biggest issue here. I would first suggest sitting down with your wife to discuss the situation. Try approaching it from a different angle. Start the discussion with a simple question like "What is your ultimate goal for our son? Where would you like him to be in 5 years?" Once she answers that, you can slowly move on breaking the steps down. Allow her the opportunity to come up with the plan rather than telling her how she should be treating him. Ask her if she thinks that he has learned anything since being in your home. If she says yes...ask her to explain how he learned, and why she thinks he has learned that particular lesson. I think that through discussion where she needs to tell you the answers...she'll start to find that she doesn't have them.

One thing that my parents have done with my siblings that have moved back in for assistance, is they have required rent...but it was always an amount that was discussed with the adults first as to what would be possible. They would then put the money away for the child so that when they moved out, they would have something to work with. Like a forced savings account. Sometimes my brother would have to go sell plasma in order to get my mom $50 a month...but there are always ways. Again...he still has possessions that are necessities...doesn't he? :-)

(Again, I apologize for being so long winded!)

[rameumptom]

I am of the opinion that we need to teach our children self-responsibility. If the child is not paying his own tickets, and has the ability to work and pay for them, then he deserves to have his car impounded and perhaps spend a few days in jail.

If you don't force him to be an adult by making his own choices and receiving the consequence of those choices, he will never be able to become exalted.

[Guest SisterofJared]

1K a month and single could be dadgum tight.... if they are paying rent,etc.

But living with mommy and daddy paying the bills, no utilities... these kids have it made!

Sad thing is, nothing that comes so easily is valued... not even a college education.

SoJ

[Elgama]

OK I know this is an old thread, but I am going to take a different tack, because you say your wife's maternal instincts are usually good - is your son depressed or has another problem? I know my husband struggled after his mission and was very much the way you describe your son, finally collapsing completely after his Dad died a year into his mission. It was a horrible time for us - but he did eventually climb out of it he has a good job and for 6 months cycled 6 miles a day to get there I am very proud of him.

Have you asked your wife what her maternal instinct is?

When my husband and I have disagreement that seems insurmountable we both get blessing before we even start - have you offered your wife a blessing?

-Charley