Testing Book of Mormon geography theories

[Hemidakota]

MormonTimes - Testing Book of Mormon geography theories

Article snippet: "There is a group of people who consider that everything took place in Peru," Carr said. "Others (think it took place) right around the Isthmus of Panama. Others in Mesoamerica. Others in (the) New York state, Eastern United States, Great Lakes area. And then there is the overall pervading idea that came back from the early days in the church that it was the entire Western Hemisphere -- from Tierra del Fuego to Point Barrow, Alaska."

[skalenfehl]

Yeah, lots of good theories out there. One thing to note that by the time Christ visited the Nephites, the entire civilization was already 600 years old. How quickly was America settled? We're barely over 200 years old. I replied to your other thread with a link and a website of some interesting images and discoveries.

[rameumptom]

While we have an idea of Nephite territory, such as travels through the entire land that take less than 2 weeks (suggesting a distance of maybe 250 miles for the Nephite Empire), we do not know the extent of the Lamanite lands.

Another issue is the concept of cultural adoption. Both sides did it, as we see Nephites adopting the Ammonites, Mulekites, and others groups. Lamanites adopted several Nephite apostate groups, and perhaps other groups that were non-Nephite in origin. The term "Lamanite" eventually came to mean anyone who did not culturally affiliate with the Nephites. That could potentially mean a western hemispheric model for the Lamanites, even though the core Lamanites (by birth and tradition) were perhaps in an equally small area as the Nephites.

[ninjormon]

This is an old thread but I saw it and had to enter my personal thoughts, The nephites had to have landed on the western coast of America/South America, they traveled east from Jerusalem for 9 years was it? that is definitely long enough to travel across all of asia. I personally believe that they traveled from asia to the americas and that asia had the gospel a long time ago. Therefore in order for them to get to New York for Moroni to bury the plates the civilization may have expanded throughout the entire continent/s.

[rameumptom]

The Nephites traveled to Arabian peninsula, where they built a ship and sailed the rest of the way, with the trade currents to the western shores of the Americas. The Jaredites may have gone either direction (west or east), as I've seen good evidence for both.

The internal textual clues of the Book of Mormon definitely show that the Nephites, during their 1000 year history, did not cover more than a 400 square mile area. Distances between the Lamanite lands and the Land of Desolation (about 2 weeks travel) is too short for a continental or hemispheric theory.

Other groups were already here. DNA and the textual clues in the Book of Mormon already witness to this. The modern Native Americans are therefore primarily cultural descendants of the Lamanites.

[hordak]

The modern Native Americans are therefore primarily cultural descendants of the Lamanites.

The problem with this idea is that it conflicts with what the Prophets have taught. Not to mention the Lamanite placement program.

[Hemidakota]

Which prophets and why?

[rameumptom]

I agree with Hemi. Some prophets have given their opinions in the past as to literal descendancy. But based upon what? Elder McConkie had placed in the 1981 BoM introduction the concept that the Lamanites were the "principle" ancestor of the Native Americans. That was recently removed, as we move past the Mormon Doctrine era, and into an era with more understanding of BoM textual criticism and other evidences.

The Book of Mormon shows cultural ties as the most important ties. Mulekites become Nephites. Nephites become Lamanites. Zoramites and Amulonites become Lamanites or Nephites. Others are absorbed as needed. How else did Nephi build a temple the size of Solomon's, if he only had his own family to build it? Reality shows that they had absorbed others, just as Mosiah later absorbed the Mulekites. Suddenly, DNA becomes meaningless, as other distinct peoples become part of the group and use the group label.

[rameumptom]

BTW, I don't understand how the Lamanite Placement program becomes a problem for my statement. We placed cultural Lamanites into white homes.

[LittleWyvern]

I've never understood the point of these endeavors. The Book of Mormon wasn't meant to be a geography book.

[Hemidakota]

Perhaps not right now but in the future, we will know the exactness of the history and locations of all cultures that the Lord brought forth from other lands. For me, it adds a richness when I do read the Book of Mormon.

[Islander]

Look, Mexico is 1/8 the size of the US and has close to 300 dialects, many of which has no written records.. It is, at this junction, impossible to determine how many more just vanished in 500 years after the conquest and to sift thru all that jigsaw puzzle.

The debate about who is a descendant from whom is not only insubstantial but also inconsequential. Part of my family descended from the horn of Africa, another from Spain, some from France and some even from China (got paperwork on it, by the way). That was just about 120 years ago. Now, can anybody take a shot?

[Hemidakota]

It isn't...it is important as to historical record keeping. It will be made known.

Remember what the Lord asked for when He wanted to see the records.

[poulsenll]

I've never understood the point of these endeavors. The Book of Mormon wasn't meant to be a geography book.

It certainly is not. Otherwise it would not be so difficult to put together a reasonable picture of the geography. Even with over 500 verses that imply geographical relationships, most of the details are still obscure and subject to debate.

Larry P