The Nation of Deseret

[Justice]

... and possibly excommunicated if they joined.

[deseretgov]

Don't worry. From what I've been in on, many of these problems will be taken care of in the upcoming months.

[gabelpa]

Make sure that you publish the legal findings on the web site, both as a transcript and as a downloadable PDF so we can verify that the documents are from a verifiable source. I'd be especially interestedin the letter from the Prophet.

[Just_A_Guy]

From what I've been in on, many of these problems will be taken care of in the upcoming months.

Re the flag design--copyright law also covers derivative works. In other words, you can't take an existing copyrighted image (as NoD has apparently done, based on your very thorough knowledge of the "differences" between the two designs) and reverse-engineer it in an attempt to make it "different enough" to skirt the existing copyright. You're going to have to start from scratch.

I won't even get into the question of why anyone should subject themselves to a "government" whose first action has been to appropriate the property of an individual without that individual's consent or compensation.

[gabelpa]

Don't forget the fair use loopholes, i.e. parody, but I don't think claiming the NoD flag to be a parody would fly.

[rayhale]

Whether or not you consider your ‘government’ to treason against the United States government, the simple fact that you are trying to acquire all ready occupied land, and if by some miracle, you do get your own ‘country‘ within United States of America, what will you do with all the millions of people that live inside ‘your’ country?

Even if the U.S. government doesn’t consider what you are doing is an act of treason, or an act of war, the people that don’t want to live in your country, will!

In the eighteen hundreds, when the Nation of Deseret was first envisioned, we weren’t displacing anyone, taking away any ones freedom, besides the natives of this country, which is a discussion for another time. You may not think that you’re declaring war on the United States government, but for all the millions of people inside your country, territory, or whatever you want to call it, it will be WAR!!! So don’t think that acquiring your country won’t be a bloody one.

[deseretgov]

Re the flag design--copyright law also covers derivative works. In other words, you can't take an existing copyrighted image (as NoD has apparently done, based on your very thorough knowledge of the "differences" between the two designs) and reverse-engineer it in an attempt to make it "different enough" to skirt the existing copyright. You're going to have to start from scratch.

The design did come from scratch. My "very thorough knowledge of the 'differences' between the two designs" is because I clicked on the link you provided and compared them. It's not that hard to do. The hard thing to do would be to prove it was a derivative work or not. Similarity does not equal derivative.

rayhale as I said all of these things will be taken care of in the next couple months.

[Just_A_Guy]

Deseretgov, I'm just telling you what the law is and giving you a friendly warning. What you do with that warning is up to you. If you think you can convince a jury that you had never seen this:

http://www.lds.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=103&d=1231175549

when you came up with this:

http://www.lds.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=104&d=1231175553

then feel free to disregard what I've written.

[deseretgov]

I'm pretty sure that I didn't see that design before the NoD flag was created. And if you compare the designs the only thing that is the same is the white background and most of the three horizonatal lines(again from observation only). The design I had seen was that "church" flag that was in the upper part of that link you gave. That's a design I have seen before.

But as I said don't worry all of this will be taken care of shortly.

[justamere10]

I'm pretty sure that I didn't see that design before the NoD flag was created. And if you compare the designs the only thing that is the same is the white background and most of the three horizonatal lines(again from observation only). The design I had seen was that "church" flag that was in the upper part of that link you gave. That's a design I have seen before.

But as I said don't worry all of this will be taken care of shortly.

I remain sceptical deseretgov but still interested, especially the way the signs of the times have accelerated in the past few weeks. So far most of the criticisms of your group would become invalid if our nation lost its cohesion, as is prophesied to happen sometime. (I think many people in North America are losing confidence in government and politicians.)

Most of the negativity I think is because you have not established a connection with LDS authorities and your website lacks the professional touch and evidence of funding that one would expect of such an important entity as you present yourself as being or becoming.

My guess is that there are quite a few members of this board who are rightfully sceptical, but also interested in yours or a similar organization appearing in our time. But I think you must prove that you have the encouragement of the Senior Brethren who would know better about the timing.

Keep us posted on new happenings within your group.

[deseretgov]

Well I guess I can tell you. the new direction we are heading is not to create in independant government. Instead we are focusing on something much more basic and arguable more important. We are establishing a movement to create an economically independant region. Not secceeding from the union but creating a region that can be economically stable dispite outside influences. There will be many similar things with the old project such as the deseret alphabet and the name Nation of Deseret. But there will be many new ideas too.

The goal is that if something ever happened that cause the United States to fall apart the "Nation of Deseret" would be minimally affected.

This movement will, eventually, impact most areas of life, transportation, energy, education, media, agriculture, etc.

EDIT: The flag design will be different too.

[The_Seeker]

So the NoD will be more like a great big co-op?

[gabelpa]

that sounds like something that will be more legally maintainable, and regulatable by the current government. Remember, if governments collapse, that nation's currency becomes worthless.