The_Seeker

This website might help: HolyFetch.com - Mormon Urban Legend and Folklore Site

I suppose it might be different depending on which ward one attends, but I used to read from the NKJV in Sunday School, and no-one commented on it at all -- positive or negative.

I was thinking of suggesting that. I would happily buy a book with commentary like this. :)thekabalist, is this the same way that you "deconstruct" (for lack of a better term) the Torah when you do scripture study? It's a fascinating way of looking at the text. I never would have imagined that there might be so many layers of meaning in the BoM -- but I guess most of this would only occur to someone who was familiar with the Hebrew language and Jewish culture.

Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy. -- 2 Nephi 2:25

Is that a separate thread? I don't think I've seen that, I'll have to go look..... Never mind, I found it. Here's a link for the lazy: http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/28067-help-requested-bom-sayings.html

thekabalist, your commentary is very illuminating. I appreciate the time and effort you are putting into this, and hope you continue with it. :)

I would do it, as long as I was sure it was something coming from the Church and not just the Bishop. I've made the covenant and had better live up to it. I imagine a *lot* of other things would be changing as well, either before or after this request was made. Not sure where that would fit in your poll choices, so I didn't vote.

So you're saying that in your experience most people leave the Church due to laziness? I can see how that would happen, especially considering the commitment level it takes to be a Latter-Day Saint.I admit that I struggle with that to some extent too, especially Church attendance. My job requires me to work sometimes on Sundays, and I've discovered that after having to miss church several weeks in a row sometimes it's hard to make myself get up and go once I do have the chance. But when I make the effort it's always worth it.

Speaking only for myself [of course]..... I am a member of the Church because I believe that is where Heavenly Father wants me to be. That's what it all boils down to. If at some point in time I felt (after much prayerful consideration) that God was leading me out of the Church, I would leave. To me, it's as simple as that, which isn't to say that it would be easy. I had to do a lot of praying and searching to convince me to join the Church, and it would take an equal amount to make me leave. As far as "denouncing my faith" -- I consider my belief in God and in Christ's Atonement to be something that I hold apart from or in addition to my faith in the Church. Even if I left the Church I would still have that.

Speaking as someone who used to be a JW and is now LDS, the idea that YWHW of the Old Testament was actually Jesus Christ was a tough one to wrap my head around at first. It smacked of blasphemy to me. After studying it out in my mind I think I understand how it would work, but I'm so used to associating "Jehovah" with "God the Father" that it still trips me up mentally sometimes.

So the NoD will be more like a great big co-op?

I read Rough Stone Rolling while I was investigating the church. It's been a while since I read it last, so the details are starting to get a little fuzzy -- I should read the book again. I think Bushman did a very even-handed job of portraying Joseph Smith, and it puzzles me that some church members have a negative reaction to the book. Then again, I had read No Man Knows My History first, so that might color my perception a bit.

I am. When I was investigating the church I tried to keep my Mom abreast of what I was doing and some of the things I was learning. To my surprise, she seemed pretty supportive of my studying. I think now that she was hoping it would just be a "phase" I was going through -- that I would take what I felt I needed from Mormon doctrine and move on.When I told her I wanted to get baptized, she kinda blew up, which caught me by surprise. I invited her to my baptism, but she told me in no uncertain terms that she didn't agree with what I was doing and couldn't in good conscience lend her support by attending. At this point (about a year later) we have a slightly uneasy truce. I occasionally still attend church or Sunday School with my Mom, but I find I feel more and more uncomfortable there. I still try to answer any questions she asks me about my beliefs or Church structure, but I don't bring up the topic myself because I don't want to start an argument. I'm hoping that over time my Mom will see that the Church is making a positive change in my life and not a negative one, but I realize that it isn't going to happen overnight. Other family members have been a little more supportive. My stepdad, who does not attend any church, has stood up for me a couple of times and overall seems slightly amused at my conversion. My grandmother, who lives in another state, doesn't seem bothered by it at all. The last time I talked to her, all she said was, "Well, at least it isn't the Jehovah's Witnesses!" (I was a JW for a few years in my teens.) I guess the only advice that I can give is not to let yourself be dragged into arguments. I learned that the hard way when I was a Witness, and I'm trying my best not to repeat that mistake. Arguing only makes things worse. Remember your family members are not your enemies, they are only worried about you and the destiny of your immortal soul. Also, any change of heart they have will probably take a long time. Don't expect immediate results. Sorry to ramble on so long, I tend to do that sometimes. Best of luck on your upcoming mission.

I know that you can get "expedited service" when ordering a passport, but I don't remember how fast this is. It does cost extra money to do so.

And what is a 41-year-old married Catholic man doing reading a thread about looking for young single women? Hmmm?

^^You have a point there, Hemi. :) Perhaps the NoD is not expecting to kick this into full force until something like that occurs?

I still don't see how this would work out well. Why do you think the US government is going to willingly surrender claim to part of it's own land, no matter how many of the inhabitants of it say they want to form a new nation? It didn't work for the Confederate States of America, what makes you think things would be different today? Yes, at this point there is not much reason for any country to declare war on the NoD. :) I wouldn't be surprised if your website is being monitored on a few watchlists, however. Maybe I'm missing something here, but I think your view of how things will turn out is overly optimistic. I think that if you continue on this course and your movement gains momentum, it will only be a matter of time until the US will try to crush you. Thus, war would be pretty much inevitable IMO. You said that you are not encouraging anyone to head to a compound in the mountains with plenty of guns and ammo, but isn't that what would be needed eventually if this effort is going to succeed? Personally I don't see any way around it. Looping back to the land issue: you said that at first the NoD will only claim land that is given it by it's citizens. Eventually you hope to gain enough critical mass so that you can claim an entire region. (Please correct me if I have this wrong.) I would think that the first stage would net you a rather patchy claim to a bunch of land that may or may not be physically connected. If you do reach the next stage, wouldn't you be left with a scattered group of people who do not want to be part of your nation, who refuse to give up their land to the NoD or recognize it's sovereignty over them? What will you do with these people? Will they become refugees if they don't want to be citizens of Deseret? I do appreciate your answers to my questions. I am certainly no expert on the topic of creating nations (far from it!), so perhaps there are things that I am missing that makes this idea seem feasible to you and the leaders of this organization. Personally, I can't see this effort turning out well if it gains strength.

I'm sure you are not encouraging anyone to hoard guns, stock up on ammo, and flee to the mountains. :) I'm just trying to think of how this might play out. It seems to me that any nation needs a physical space to claim (land). How do the leaders of the Nation of Deseret intend to acquire this land? What will it do if the current owners of the land are not willing to give it up? If citizenship is open to anyone in the world, what happens to whatever members do not live within the physical boundaries of the Nation of Deseret when the nation does acquire land? Are they expected to immigrate to Deseret, or stay at home as citizens-in-exile? What kinds of laws would a member of this nation be expected to follow? It seems from what you've posted thus far that all citizens of Deseret would hold dual citizenship with whatever other country they live in currently. What would happen if the laws of Deseret and the laws of the other country conflict? What if the the citizen's parent country declares war on Deseret? (I could also ask how Deseret expects to enforce any laws it does make, but it doesn't look like you even have that kind of infrastructure set up yet.) I hope you don't feel I'm trying to pick on you and your organization, but these are just some of the thoughts that make me uncomfortable about this idea.

This new "nation" sounds interesting, but I'm still leery of the idea. Could becoming a member of the Nation of Deseret be seen as treason (or something along those lines) by the US government?

Reorganized? How so?

I had never thought of it that way. So Satan isn't capable of repenting? Interesting thought. I wonder if there are others who are past redeeming as well.

I use triox bars in my 72-hour kit, and they work well. I've only used them to boil water or heat up food in a cup, and they are perfectly safe for that as long as you have enough ventilation. I'm thinking about buying one of those little Esbit stoves and the tablets for it, which work about the same from what I've read about them. I don't have one myself, but a lot of people seem to swear by the little alcohol-fueled stoves. They work best if you use denatured alcohol (can be found in the paint section of the hardware store). They burn cleaner than triox or hexi tablets. They aren't much good in very cold weather, though.I'm not sure how long the alcohol would last in storage, but from what I've read it's best not to keep it near your food (it will make it taste awful), and you should make sure that the bottle you use to store it has a very tight-fitting lid.

You make a very good point. Perhaps I should focus more on my personal scripture reading, and look into ways to apply it to life on my own. That would be a more meaningful way to learn, in the long run. Thanks for the insight! :)

Thanks candyprpl, I'll look into that as well. :) (At this rate I am going to have my email box full of devotionals every morning -- LOL!)

An Upper Room devotional is made up of the following: 1) suggested scripture reading (could be anything from a couple verses to an entire chapter) 2) key verse or two, usually taken from the scripture reading but not always (sort of a highlight) 3) short story or discourse on the scripture reading that helps you apply it to daily life 4) written prayer 5) thought for the day that sums up the lesson so that it's easy to keep in mind I posted a link to a sample in my first post. The parts that I'm most interested in are the scripture reading and the attached story. The "thought for the day" is nice too. I'm not so worried about the rest.