Becoming gods

[KristofferUmfrey]

Who are the gods that the LORD God is God of?

-a-train

The people or objects people set up as gods.

The is no God but our God, and Jesus is His Son.

[a-train]

Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. (1 John 3:1-3)

Do you not believe that we shall be the sons of God, that we shall be like Him, that we shall be as pure as He is?

-a-train

[a-train]

The people or objects people set up as gods.

The is no God but our God, and Jesus is His Son.

Would you say the same of the lords over which He is LORD?

Going outside that verse, what of the kings over which He is King?

-a-train

[Interested]

This is true. I take into account, however, that since I don't believe God has ever procreated, that Jesus is his only begotten son. We are sons through adoption.

[KristofferUmfrey]

Do you not believe that we shall be the sons of God, that we shall be like Him, that we shall be as pure as He is?

-a-train

I believe we will become perfected in our capacities but we will never become a God, because there is only one. We will assist Him in His work, but we will never be what God is.

Instead of responding to the other post in another post I will respond to you other post to me here...

Yes, He is Lord over those set up as lords and King over all who would be called kings. Now I DO believe we will be Lords and Kings in the Kingdom of God (it is called a Kingdom for a reason) as the NT teaches. But that will in no way make us what God is.

[a-train]

This is true. I take into account, however, that since I don't believe God has ever procreated, that Jesus is his only begotten son. We are sons through adoption.

So if then through the Blood of Jesus and by adoption the children of men are become the sons of God, heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ, sitting in the throne of God with Him and crowned with the glory, the purity, the perfection, and the very appearance of God, what is left for us to deny?

If it is nothing more than the word "god", you can have it. What does a man raised to such an exalted status require of this faulty collection of but three english letters? Indeed, it is not the Mormons who so often mention this blessed state "godhood", but it is most often referred to by them as "exaltation" which is indeed the word of Jesus when speaking of the very subject of the order of His Kingship over His Kingdom. For He said: "And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted." (Matt. 23:12)

Call the missionaries, get with your LDS friends and stop kicking the pricks. Take the discussions and read the Book of Mormon. Learn of the truthfulness of the Restored Gospel and enjoy it. This message is not one of rejection, but a call to come forth.

-a-train

[KristofferUmfrey]

I think this from the Philadelphia Church of God best expresses my ideas on the subject (although I may not agree with all their teachings...)

Literature | theTrumpet.com

[KristofferUmfrey]

So if then through the Blood of Jesus and by adoption the children of men are become the sons of God, heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ, sitting in the throne of God with Him and crowned with the glory, the purity, the perfection, and the very appearance of God, what is left for us to deny?

If it is nothing more than the word "god", you can have it. What does a man raised to such an exalted status require of this faulty collection of but three english letters? Indeed, it is not the Mormons who so often mention this blessed state "godhood", but it is most often referred to by them as "exaltation" which is indeed the word of Jesus when speaking of the very subject of the order of His Kingship over His Kingdom. For He said: "And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted." (Matt. 23:12)

Call the missionaries, get with your LDS friends and stop kicking the pricks. Take the discussions and read the Book of Mormon. Learn of the truthfulness of the Restored Gospel and enjoy it. This message is not one of rejection, but a call to come forth.

-a-train

I can agree with at least one thing a-train said...

Read the Book of Mormon!

When you know it's true, then we can discuss where to go from there. There are plenty of options to explore for a Book of Mormon Believer.

[a-train]

I believe we will become perfected in our capacities but we will never become a God, because there is only one. We will assist Him in His work, but we will never be what God is.

Instead of responding to the other post in another post I will respond to you other post to me here...

Yes, He is Lord over those set up as lords and King over all who would be called kings. Now I DO believe we will be Lords and Kings in the Kingdom of God (it is called a Kingdom for a reason) as the NT teaches. But that will in no way make us what God is.

Why? Why is He the King of real kings, the Lord of real lords, but not the God of real gods? What is a god?

And what is God? Is He not a man raised to immortality? Did He not come forth from the womb of woman and grow from infancy to manhood as any other? Did He not suffer the pains of human mortality? Was He not perceived to be so plainly human that his own people rejected Him in Nazereth? Did He not eat and drink and work as any other man? Did He not die and come forth from the grave in a glorious resurrection? Did He not eat with the apostles after He was so raised from the grave? Did they not feel the flesh and bone of His literal physical body? Does He not sit enthroned in yonder heavens in glory and immortality?

What is the great difference between His species and ours? Some have imagined that He only took up the form of man in an effort to communicate with us. These suggest that this form is not His natural shape or image. Why then does the scripture say that man was made in the image of God? This must mean that God has an image and that it is the image of man.

All of these efforts to mystify and glorify God in some philosphical mind trick are foolishness. The scriptures are plain. Do not believe these philosophers and their extra-biblical theories. The LDS belief in the raising of man to the throne of God is not extra-biblical. It is explicitly biblical. And the revelations from Jesus Christ to Joseph Smith only confirmed what was already written.

Satan is a cunning and crafty lier. His first and foremost work is to deny God and to deny man's ability to approach God. He wants us to deny our Heavenly Heritage. He wants us to doubt the literal corporeal nature of God. He wants us to deny the blessings of God which he will never receive. That is his very work. The scriptures are certain on the notion that man is God's offspring whose ultimate capabilities are only fulfilled in ascending to God's throne to sit in it with Him.

-a-train

[a-train]

I think this from the Philadelphia Church of God best expresses my ideas on the subject (although I may not agree with all their teachings...)

Literature | theTrumpet.com

Do you believe that Mr. Armstrong receives modern revelation? Do you believe that the spirit of man is not distinct, but one great spirit for all men?

-a-train

[KristofferUmfrey]

I believe that trying to bring God down to our position is also dangerous. I don't believe in some mystical "something but nothing" "here but not" being, but I also do not believe in a "once mortal" "progressed to His position" God either.

I believe God has always been God and we were created in His image spirit and body, but that we can never become what He is. He is IT the ultimate, there never has been and never will be one like Him.

[KristofferUmfrey]

Do you believe that Mr. Armstrong receives modern revelation? Do you believe that the spirit of man is not distinct, but one great spirit for all men?

-a-train

Well, Mr. Armstrong is dead, so no.

But I do believe he was inspired in some of his teachings.

I believe we each have individual spirits, and that the Holy Spirit unites all covenant believers with the Spirit of God and Jesus Christ (Lectures on Faith)

[Interested]

I'm reading it definitely. It may bring me some secular and philosophical insight, but I am and will always be a staunch Non-Denominationalist.

[a-train]

Unfortunate but true: Non-Denominationalism is a denomination.

-a-train

[Interested]

Hehe. I suppose it is. It doesn't matter to me.

[a-train]

No matter a man's paradigm, it is classified and catalogued. If it can't be, then it is mere psychosis, which of course has been heavily classified and catalogued.

-a-train

[Interested]

I have put a label on you, therefore you are what I say you are. That it was it sounds like to me....

:)

I'm not trying to argue here... except to say it sounds like people are getting angry.

[YoungMormonRoyalist]

Romans 8

1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

18For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

What this? :/

This only says we get to sit on the Throne with him.

It refers to verse seventeen, where it says that we are heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ. What did Christ inherit? Everything the Father has. What will we inherit? Everything the Father has.

There's that verse that says (and I'm paraphrasing this bad boy): What child shall ask for bread and his father giveth him a stone?

If we are truly the children of God, what good father would deny his children everything he has? God created us not only that we might love and serve him, but that he may love us and share with us every good attribute, ultimate love and eternal compassion, and a full understanding and knowledge of our priesthood and potential.

[Interested]

Well... I don't get it where it would say we would get everything Jesus has. You could kind of squeeze that out of that passage I suppose. But its a stretch. We would definitely get what verse 17 says... but "Join heirs with Christ" sounds alot more like receiving his authority and the rights to the throne of God.

I don't see where that would make us gods except in a figurative sense like Satan is the god of this world.

[a-train]

I have put a label on you, therefore you are what I say you are. That it was it sounds like to me....

:)

I'm not trying to argue here... except to say it sounds like people are getting angry.

?

-a-train

[KristofferUmfrey]

I'm reading it definitely. It may bring me some secular and philosophical insight, but I am and will always be a staunch Non-Denominationalist.

"Reading it" as in intending to? Because (not to be rude) believing the Book of Mormon may offer "secular or philosophical insight", shows me you have not read it yet. When you do I believe you may be greatly surprised that it is much different then you believe or have been taught.

Here's a non-denominational Book of Mormon believing site for you to ponder also:

http://www.bomchristian.com

[Justice]

We don't even need to open the Book of Mormon...

John 1:

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Where was there ever a son that could not become like his father?

The telling thing about this scripture is that it does not say Christ does all the work for you. In fact, it says He gives us the ability to become. Still, without this gift we cannot become, so Christ is responsible. But, without something from us we cannot become, just the same.

It is what we become by believing in and following Christ. There IS a result. That is what Christianity has always been about.

This is one of the truths that is caught and not taught. The words are there but one can't comprehend them until they are ready to.

[Dr T]

Do you not believe that we shall be the sons of God, that we shall be like Him, that we shall be as pure as He is?

-a-train

I am a son of God.

be like him in what sense?

NO, not as pure as God but if you're talking about how he sees us, throught the work of Christ then I'd agree that he sees us as pure because of that but "As God"-no

[Interested]

"Reading it" as in intending to? Because (not to be rude) believing the Book of Mormon may offer "secular or philosophical insight", shows me you have not read it yet. When you do I believe you may be greatly surprised that it is much different then you believe or have been taught.

Here's a non-denominational Book of Mormon believing site for you to ponder also:

http://www.bomchristian.com

I'm reading some of it. I haven't gotten far.

[YoungMormonRoyalist]

Well... I don't get it where it would say we would get everything Jesus has. You could kind of squeeze that out of that passage I suppose. But its a stretch. We would definitely get what verse 17 says... but "Join heirs with Christ" sounds alot more like receiving his authority and the rights to the throne of God.

I don't see where that would make us gods except in a figurative sense like Satan is the god of this world.

Actually, that's exactly what it's ment to sound like. It is recieveing his authority, it is recieving rights to a throne 'like' Gods. Not the throne of God. Heavenly Father's plan is to give those who suceed in turning to Christ everything he has, everything he knows, and everything he teaches.

Uhh...I don't want to be a figurative god like Satan.