American Family Asociation's Christmas "Ornament"

[StrawberryFields]

On that same link in the OP it has this at the bottom in Red

PLEASE NOTE: This product ships directly from the distributor. If you wish to order other products at this time from the AFA Online Store, please make a seperate order.

[Elphaba]

And Elphs, I love you, but you're wrong. It is entirely possible that the people working for the AFA couldn't catch this similarity this bears to the KKK symbol. You seem to be forgetting that the AFA is a collection of some of the worlds greatest morons that hates anyone that doesn't submit to their brand of Christianity.

MOE,

You should know by now that I am never wrong!

I can't tell if you're being facetious or not when you said I'm wrong. After all, you do have a rep here for your dry wit.

So, what I've written below assumes you were serious.

I didn't know who or what the AFA is, so I went to its website and was stunned at how large an organization it is. It even has its own periodical.

Because it is such a large business, even more eyes would have seen the product than I initially thought. In fact, I think this thread proves that at least one person at the AFA would have seen the comparison, as five people here saw it immediately.

Also, given how large the company is, I am sure it has at least the equivalent of a buyer, and there is no doubt in my mind the buyer saw the resemblance. Perhaps not right away like I and others here did, but given how much time the buyer and others spends with the product, even if s/he didn't see the resemblance, someone who did would have pointed it out.

It's the buyer's job to make sure the product is not offensive, and s/he would have vetted it to make sure it is not. When I was an assistant buyer as well as an ad designer, it was my job to catch these things. Companies do not want any of its customers to be offended.

Whether that's PC or not, that is how the business works.

As I said, it’s a lengthy process to get a product into the product line, and many eyes see it along the way. So if five people on this thread saw it, then at least one person at the AFA saw it as well.

Finally, remember, I am never wrong, and you're a bad boy for saying so!

Elphie

[MarginOfError]

MOE,

You should know by now that I am never wrong!

I can't tell if you're being facetious or not when you said I'm wrong. After all, you do have a rep here for your dry wit.

So, what I've written below assumes you were serious.

I didn't know who or what the AFA is, so I went to its website and was stunned at how large an organization it is. It even has its own periodical.

Because it is such a large business, even more eyes would have seen the product than I initially thought. In fact, I think this thread proves that at least one person at the AFA would have seen the comparison, as five people here saw it immediately.

Also, given how large the company is, I am sure it has at least the equivalent of a buyer, and there is no doubt in my mind the buyer saw the resemblance. Perhaps not right away like I and others here did, but given how much time the buyer and others spends with the product, even if s/he didn't see the resemblance, someone who did would have pointed it out.

It's the buyer's job to make sure the product is not offensive, and s/he would have vetted it to make sure it is not. When I was an assistant buyer as well as an ad designer, it was my job to catch these things. Companies do not want any of its customers to be offended.

Whether that's PC or not, that is how the business works.

As I said, it’s a lengthy process to get a product into the product line, and many eyes see it along the way. So if five people on this thread saw it, then at least one person at the AFA saw it as well.

Finally, remember, I am never wrong, and you're a bad boy for saying so!

Elphie

I was quite serious, Elphie. The people at the American Family Association really are so dumb that they wouldn't have noticed this.

[Truegrits]

"Mormon? I didn't know they had those in Connecticut!"

I just had to at this.

[Wingnut]

I just had to at this.

I laughed at it when the guy said it. Mostly I laughed at how preposterous the comment sounded to me. After saying it, he further mentioned that he didn't know there were Mormons in New England at all. I laughed to myself at that one, since the Church was founded in upstate New York (which isn't considered part of New England, but is pretty darn close).

[Elphaba]

When I first saw Elphaba OP I didn't see the link in her post so I read a few more on down before going to click on the word "this". I saw the Cross on the porch highly lit up but then I looked beyond that and saw the beautiful front doors with the matching header. :)

That is soooooo you!

Elphie

[Elphaba]

elph, darling, sweetie, though i agree with how it looks.... when was the last time you were in (or anywhere near) dear old mississippi in which you noted so much histroy?>snip<

Hello my friend. :)

I am not saying the people in Mississippi are at fault, or that they're not fairly tame (a great word to use, btw). I am not saying the AFA's employees are guilty of purposely buying a product because it could evoke the image of the burning cross. I don't think the AFA was being malicious at all.

However, I do not believe the residents of Mississippi are oblivious to its contribution to the horror of terrorizing black Americans. The three examples I gave are the most notorious and well-known. But they are not the only incidents.

Additionally, I grew up in So. CA, where I never saw any white supremacist groups burning any crosses. Yet, as Wing said, I have read history books that included the history of the civil rights movement and the KKK.

So, if I knew about them, why wouldn't Mississippi’s citizens know about them as well? Especially since the state's relatively recent history was rife with this violent hate.

i can see this being totally missed by non extream yungsters whose minds are focused on one thing.

The AFA is such a large entity, and its product line is so extensive, I'm sure the people who make these decisions are professionals. It's not a few youngsters making the decision to accept the product or not.

for the record we have many lighted crosses in our town at christmas (i'm in alabama) that do not look like they are on fire. the issue isn't a lighted cross it's the poor design of this one with lights sticking out everywhere which remove the clean lines that make it look like they are on fire.

I agree, and it goes to my point. The design of this particular cross evokes the image. And as you point out, it’s caused by the way the lights are attached.

i see this as an innocent mistake and we can throw it in the file with the obama sock monkey to pull out for a good laugh about ignorance when a good laugh at someone's expense is needed.

The company that designed and marketed that sock puppet consisted of a few family members, or at least I think they were family. Either way, it is an extremely small company run by people who had no knowledge of the do's and don'ts of marketing. They just thought they were making a fun puppet to sell, and that was it. But when they discovered the puppet offended a number of people, they stopped selling it, which was the right thing to do.

And the AFA should do the same.

The company does not drop the product simply because it's not PC to offend anyone. It drops the product because it would lose its profit, and tarnish its image. If people don’t trust the company, they won’t purchase its products.

and though i know many would disagree and i do not advocate forgetting history in the least... >snip<if that makes any since.

Yes, it makes perfect sense, and I think it’s a very good point when looking at the social implications of moving on.

However, wanting to move on beyond the negative history has nothing to do with a product's viability. If the product evokes an abhorrent image to some of its customers, the product is dropped. It's too risky not to.

As Cutler Beckett said: "It's just good business."

I am curious to see if the AFA responds to my e-mail.

Elphie

Edited November 20, 2008 by Elphaba

[KristofferUmfrey]

Should the United Methodist Church have to redesign their logo?

[Look it up, I don't know how the post pictures in a post]

[Wingnut]

Should the United Methodist Church have to redesign their logo?

[Look it up, I don't know how the post pictures in a post]

Why should they redesign it? It is a flame AND a cross, both of which have separate and distinct symbology. It doesn't in the least resemble a cross set on fire.

[KristofferUmfrey]

You are just going to disagree with me on anything I say now, aren't you.

[Wingnut]

You are just going to disagree with me on anything I say now, aren't you.

When everything you post is absurd, then yes.

[Guest DeborahC]

Hmmm... I thought it was a pretty good question...

[KristofferUmfrey]

Sweet, so I have two ladies that are never going to look at my posts objectively again! Maybe you can start a "Hate Kris" committee.

Good to know that there are others who can move on when someone realizes they were a bit out of hand, apologizes, and tries to do better. But I guess not everybody is so generous.

[Elphaba]

Sweet, so I have two ladies that are never going to look at my posts objectively again! Maybe you can start a "Hate Kris" committee.

Good to know that there are others who can move on when someone realizes they were a bit out of hand, apologizes, and tries to do better. But I guess not everybody is so generous.

Oh wah.

Quit being such a wuss. No one hates you.

We debate here. If you don't want to do that that's fine. But if you post something I disagree with, then we disagree.

And personally, I can't let that slide, because I'm obnoxious.

Elphaba

[Wingnut]

Sweet, so I have two ladies that are never going to look at my posts objectively again! Maybe you can start a "Hate Kris" committee.

Good to know that there are others who can move on when someone realizes they were a bit out of hand, apologizes, and tries to do better. But I guess not everybody is so generous.

I haven't been looking at your posts objectively for some time. Most of what I've seen you post on here is absurd.

[KristofferUmfrey]

I haven't been looking at your posts objectively for some time.

No kidding. I will continue to objectively evaluate everyone's posts even those I have disagreements with (ok, except for maybe Venkman).

[MarginOfError]

No kidding. I will continue to objectively evaluate everyone's posts even those I have disagreements with (ok, except for maybe Venkman).

You mean like when you looked at this objectively

or when you replied to this one so objectively

or how about when you studied this so thoroughly and with objectivity.

For someone who is so objective you have a terrible case of know-it-all syndrome.

[KristofferUmfrey]

You mean like when you looked at this objectively

or when you replied to this one so objectively

or how about when you studied this so thoroughly and with objectivity.

For someone who is so objective you have a terrible case of know-it-all syndrome.

When were these posts made? Apparently you have chosen to ignore my mea culpa from yesterday... Let me post it here...

"I can be brash, rude, blunt, upfront, obnoxious, and kind of a jerk sometimes. I do apologize. I'll try to tone it down a bit and calmly explain what I believe and why I believe it from the Bible and Book of Mormon from now on."

But hey, by all means, hold a grudge, continue contention, and berate me until you are satisfied. I will stick by my promise to try and behave a little better in here.

[MarginOfError]

Another stellar example.

[KristofferUmfrey]

As are you my friend, as are you.

[Gwen]

back on topic boys.

Hello my friend. :)

I am not saying the people in Mississippi are at fault, or that they're not fairly tame (a great word to use, btw). I am not saying the AFA's employees are guilty of purposely buying a product because it could evoke the image of the burning cross. I don't think the AFA was being malicious at all.

However, I do not believe the residents of Mississippi are oblivious to its contribution to the horror of terrorizing black Americans. The three examples I gave are the most notorious and well-known. But they are not the only incidents.

Additionally, I grew up in So. CA, where I never saw any white supremacist groups burning any crosses. Yet, as Wing said, I have read history books that included the history of the civil rights movement and the KKK.

So, if I knew about them, why wouldn't Mississippi’s citizens know about them as well? Especially since the state's relatively recent history was rife with this violent hate.

.............

Elphie

you are assuming the ppl of mississippi know their history as well as you do. as a society we have a tendency to live in the "grass is greener" mind set. i live an hour from selma. anyone that paid attention in history class while studying the civil rights movement will know what that means.

my stepson in 5th grade spent the entire school yr learning about new orleans history.. they even took an over night field trip there. some schools are taking field trips to new york and learning all about it's history. i have no idea why they do this. ask half the kids around here what is in selma and they will have little knowledge. i'd be thrilled if they even recognise the name.

on the other hand my nephew (from ut) came with grandma to my house for a visit and they had to drive through selma. he looked out the window, saw the sign saying where they were and got very curious "selma, the selma i learned about in history...." so on the way home they stopped at all the little museaums etc there that are dedicated to their history. (that was an experiance all it's own i'll exclude here.)

my point, yes i have one, is that in the south we learn about yall. many don't learn their own history and are lucky to remember what little they did learn once they leave school. other places aparently learn about our sordid ugly southern history. it's cool i can live with it.

it's possible they really didn't see it. i think the true measure is how they handle it now that it's been pointed out. will they stand up or ignore it... do let us know if they respond to your email.

[Elphaba]

you are assuming the ppl of mississippi know their history as well as you do. as a society we have a tendency to live in the "grass is greener" mind set. i live an hour from selma. anyone that paid attention in history class while studying the civil rights movement will know what that means.

my stepson in 5th grade spent the entire school yr learning about new orleans history.. they even took an over night field trip there. some schools are taking field trips to new york and learning all about it's history. i have no idea why they do this. ask half the kids around here what is in selma and they will have little knowledge. i'd be thrilled if they even recognise the name.

on the other hand my nephew (from ut) came with grandma to my house for a visit and they had to drive through selma. he looked out the window, saw the sign saying where they were and got very curious "selma, the selma i learned about in history...." so on the way home they stopped at all the little museaums etc there that are dedicated to their history. (that was an experiance all it's own i'll exclude here.)

my point, yes i have one, is that in the south we learn about yall. many don't learn their own history and are lucky to remember what little they did learn once they leave school. other places aparently learn about our sordid ugly southern history. it's cool i can live with it.

Okay Gwennie, you've convinced me!

I do think it unfortunate they don't teach the students about Mississippi's own past, sordid as it is. All that "if they don't know the history it will come back to kick the in the butt" kind of stuff.

it's possible they really didn't see it. i think the true measure is how they handle it now that it's been pointed out. will they stand up or ignore it... do let us know if they respond to your email.

I will. I'm anxious to see what they say.

Elphie

[christmasvalleyfarms]

It gets wearisome constantly walking on eggshells worrying about inadvertently offending someone. We live in a diverse world, and the truth is you can ALWAYS offend someone, even with the most innocent of words or actions. Sometimes it's you... sometimes it them.

Sister of Jared

Amen to that!