Does Evil Really Exist?

[Amillia]

Subject: DOES EVIL EXIST???

Does evil exist? The university professor challenged his students with this question.

Did God create everything that exists?

A student bravely replied, "Yes, he did!"

"God created everything?" The professor asked.

"Yes sir", the student replied.

The professor answered, "If God created everything, then God created

evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our

works define who we are then God is evil".

The student became quiet before such an answer.

The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to

the students that he had proven once more that the Christian

faith was a myth.

Another student raised his hand and said, "Can I ask you a question

professor?"

"Of course", replied the professor.

The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?"

"What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have

you never been cold?" The students snickered at the young man's

question.

The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist.

According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality

the absence of heat. Everybody or object is susceptible to study when

it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or

ransmit energy.

Absolute zero (- 460 degrees F) is the total absence

of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature.

Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel

if we have no heat."

The student continued. "Professor, does darkness exist?"

The professor responded, "Of course it does".

The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness

does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light.

Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton's prism

to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each

color.

You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a

world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain

space is?

You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this

correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when

there is no light present."

Finally the young man asked the professor. "Sir, does evil exist?"

Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course as I have

already said.

We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man's

inhumanity to man.

It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world.

"These manifestations are nothing else but

evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at

least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God.

It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe

the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or

love that exist just as does light and heat.

Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present

in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness

that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.

The young mans name --- Albert Einstein

[Guest curvette]

This is a great story, but they shouldn't have attached Einstein's name to it. I'm 99.9% certain that Einstein took part in no such class discussion.

[StrawberryFields]

Thanks for sharing this with us Amillia. :)

[Ray]

Originally posted by curvette@Nov 2 2004, 08:49 AM

This is a great story, but they shouldn't have attached Einstein's name to it.  I'm 99.9% certain that Einstein took part in no such class discussion.

Maybe not, I don't know, but I have heard that Albert Einsteen once set out to prove that God does not exist and later claimed that He must. I don't remember exactly how I heard the story, but He walked into a room filled with chalk boards and after considerable time came away saying that the odds are about the same as pieces of a watch forming themselves into specific parts over time and then forming into a watch. The idea is basically ludicrous.

Btw, thanks for that story Amillia. I'll remember it for truth in the story itself without attributing it to Albert Einstein since that seems to be detracting from the main message. :)

[Guest Unorthodox]

Originally posted by Ray+Nov 2 2004, 10:32 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ray @ Nov 2 2004, 10:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--curvette@Nov 2 2004, 08:49 AM

This is a great story, but they shouldn't have attached Einstein's name to it.  I'm 99.9% certain that Einstein took part in no such class discussion.

Maybe not, I don't know, but I have heard that Albert Einsteen once set out to prove that God does not exist and later claimed that He must. I don't remember exactly how I heard the story, but He walked into a room filled with chalk boards and after considerable time came away saying that the odds are about the same as pieces of a watch forming themselves into specific parts over time and then forming into a watch. The idea is basically ludicrous.

Btw, thanks for that story Amillia. I'll remember it. :)

I know there was a famous quote by Einstein about God existing or not existing...I'll need to find it.

But didn't Einstein drop out of school...that is the only thing that would make me skeptical that he had this discussion.

But it is still a good story, and thanks for sharing it :)

[Guest curvette]

It is a great story. It has some very good arguments in it. Ever since the Paul Dunn thing though, I've been very skeptical of urban legends. I don't like being skeptical, but it annoys me when famous people's names are tacked on to good metaphorical stories like this one. I know Amillia didn't write this, so I'm sure I'm not offending her. I know it's meant to boost the credibility of the story, but in the end I think it takes away from the integrity of the lesson.

[Amillia]

I received this as an email from a friend. It doesn't really matter whether it was Einstein who did it or not. Someone did and it is a great argument.

[Guest Unorthodox]

Yes, the message is the most important thing!

It doesn't prove the existence of God, but it does help defend it.

UPDATE:

I did a google search on the words "einstein" and "existence of god".

Look what I found!

http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp

So although it is a good lesson, it is a documented urban legend.

I do agree with the author of that website that these stories do tend to stereotype atheist professors as arrogant, and sometimes even fanatical.

It reminds me of the Jack Chick comic with the evolutionist professor foaming at the mouth as he yelled at the calm reasonable Christian student

[Amillia]

I liked the fact that the prof was found to have no brain.

[Snow]

I can't stand this kind of imbecilic blather, especially when it is based on a lie (that Einstein was behind it) and specifically when it is wrong.

Why on earth would anyone compare evil to temperature or electomagnetic radiation (light). They are not analogous. It is a juvenile comparison. Evil is not the absence of something. Absent goodness, the natural state of things is not murder and rape and torture and hate. Those are things that people, evil people, elect to do, or their own volition.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Snow@Nov 2 2004, 07:15 PM

I can't stand this kind of imbecilic blather, especially when it is based on a lie (that Einstein was behind it) and specifically when it is wrong.

Why on earth would anyone compare evil to temperature or electomagnetic radiation (light). They are not analogous. It is a juvenile comparison. Evil is not the absence of something. Absent goodness, the natural state of things is not murder and rape and torture and hate. Those are things that people, evil people, elect to do, or their own volition.

You are such a bull smicker roy. Blather blather blather. That is all you got.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Amillia@Nov 2 2004, 11:17 PM

You are such a bull smicker roy. Blather blather blather. That is all you got.

I'm sorry Amilia, you're groining have to make more sense than that to offend me.

What's all I got?

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Snow+Nov 3 2004, 12:30 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ Nov 3 2004, 12:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Nov 2 2004, 11:17 PM

You are such a bull smicker roy. Blather blather blather. That is all you got.

I'm sorry Amilia, you're groining have to make more sense than that to offend me.

What's all I got?

Maybe the Einstein story was too much for you. Here is one more to your level.

Why did the chicken cross the road?

MARTHA STEWART: 'No one called to warn me which way that chicken was going. I had a standing order at the farmer's market to sell my eggs when the price dropped to a certain level. No little bird gave me any insider information.'

CAPTAIN KIRK: 'To boldly go where no chicken has gone before. '

FOX MULDER: (from the TV series, "X-Files") 'You saw it cross the road with your own eyes! How many more chickens have to cross before you believe it?'

BILL GATES: 'I have just released eChicken 2003, which will not only cross roads, but will lay eggs, file your important documents, balance your checkbook - and Internet Explorer is an inextricable part of eChicken. '

ALBERT EINSTEIN: 'Did the chicken really cross the road or did the road move beneath the chicken? '

SADDAM HUSSEIN: 'This was an unprovoked act of rebellion and we were quite justified in dropping 50 tons of nerve gas on it. '

GRANDPA: 'In my day, we didn't ask why the chicken crossed the road. Someone told us the! the chicken crossed the road, and that was good enough for us. '

BARBARA WALTERS: 'Isn't that interesting? In a few moments we will be listening to the chicken tell, for the first time, the heart-warming story of how it experienced a serious case of molting and went on to accomplish its life-long dream of crossing the road.'

RALPH NADER: 'The chicken's habitat on the original side of the road had been polluted by unchecked industrialist greed. The chicken did not reach the unspoiled habitat on the other side of the road because it was crushed by the wheels of a gas-guzzling SUV. '

PAT BUCHANAN: 'To steal a job from a decent, hard-working American. '

RUSH LIMBAUGH: 'I don't know why the chicken crossed the road, but I'll bet it was getting a government grant to cross the road, and I'll bet someone out there is already forming a support group to help chickens with crossing-the-road syndrome. Can you believe this? How much more of this can real Americans take? Chickens crossing the road paid for by their tax dollars, and when I say tax dollars, I'm talking about your money, money the government took from you to build roads for chickens to cross. '

GEORGE W. BUSH:' We don't really care why the chicken crossed the road. We just want to know if the chicken is on our side of the road or not. The chicken is either with us or it is against us. There is no middle ground here. '

AL GORE: 'I invented the chicken. I invented the road. Therefore, the chicken crossing the road represented the application of these two different functions of government in a new, reinvented way designed to bring greater services to the American people. '

COLIN POWELL: 'Now at the left of the screen, you clearly see the satellite image of the chicken crossing the road. '

HANS BLIX:' We have reason to believe there is a chicken, but we have not yet been allowed access to the other side of the road. '

MOHAMMED ALDOURI: (Iraq ambassador) 'the chicken did not cross the road. This is a complete fabrication. We don't even have a chicken. '

JERRY FALWELL: 'Because the chicken was gay! Isn't it obvious? Can't you people see the plain truth in front of your face? The chicken was going to the "other side. That's what they call it -- the other side. Yes, my friends, that chicken is gay. And, if you eat that chicken, you will become gay too. I say we boycott all chickens until we sort out this abomination that the liberal media whitewashes with seemingly harmless phrases like "the other side." '

DR. SEUSS:' Did the chicken cross the road? Did he cross it with a toad? Yes, the chicken crossed the road, but why it crossed, I've not been told! '

MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR.:' I envision a world where all chickens will be free to cross roads without having their motives called into question. '

JOHN LENNON:' Imagine all the chickens crossing roads in peace. '

RONALD REAGAN: 'What chicken? '

BILL CLINTON: 'I did not cross the road with THAT chicken. What do you mean by chicken? Could you define chicken, please? '

COLONEL SANDERS: 'I missed one?'

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Amillia+Nov 3 2004, 08:35 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Amillia @ Nov 3 2004, 08:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Snow@Nov 3 2004, 12:30 AM

<!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Nov 2 2004, 11:17 PM

You are such a bull smicker roy. Blather blather blather. That is all you got.

I'm sorry Amilia, you're groining have to make more sense than that to offend me.

What's all I got?

Maybe the Einstein story was too much for you. Here is one more to your level.

Why did the chicken cross the road?

MARTHA STEWART: 'No one called to warn me which way that chicken was going. I had a standing order at the farmer's market to sell my eggs when the price dropped to a certain level. No little bird gave me any insider information.'

CAPTAIN KIRK: 'To boldly go where no chicken has gone before. '

FOX MULDER: (from the TV series, "X-Files") 'You saw it cross the road with your own eyes! How many more chickens have to cross before you believe it?'

BILL GATES: 'I have just released eChicken 2003, which will not only cross roads, but will lay eggs, file your important documents, balance your checkbook - and Internet Explorer is an inextricable part of eChicken. '

ALBERT EINSTEIN: 'Did the chicken really cross the road or did the road move beneath the chicken? '

SADDAM HUSSEIN: 'This was an unprovoked act of rebellion and we were quite justified in dropping 50 tons of nerve gas on it. '

GRANDPA: 'In my day, we didn't ask why the chicken crossed the road. Someone told us the! the chicken crossed the road, and that was good enough for us. '

BARBARA WALTERS: 'Isn't that interesting? In a few moments we will be listening to the chicken tell, for the first time, the heart-warming story of how it experienced a serious case of molting and went on to accomplish its life-long dream of crossing the road.'

RALPH NADER: 'The chicken's habitat on the original side of the road had been polluted by unchecked industrialist greed. The chicken did not reach the unspoiled habitat on the other side of the road because it was crushed by the wheels of a gas-guzzling SUV. '

PAT BUCHANAN: 'To steal a job from a decent, hard-working American. '

RUSH LIMBAUGH: 'I don't know why the chicken crossed the road, but I'll bet it was getting a government grant to cross the road, and I'll bet someone out there is already forming a support group to help chickens with crossing-the-road syndrome. Can you believe this? How much more of this can real Americans take? Chickens crossing the road paid for by their tax dollars, and when I say tax dollars, I'm talking about your money, money the government took from you to build roads for chickens to cross. '

GEORGE W. BUSH:' We don't really care why the chicken crossed the road. We just want to know if the chicken is on our side of the road or not. The chicken is either with us or it is against us. There is no middle ground here. '

AL GORE: 'I invented the chicken. I invented the road. Therefore, the chicken crossing the road represented the application of these two different functions of government in a new, reinvented way designed to bring greater services to the American people. '

COLIN POWELL: 'Now at the left of the screen, you clearly see the satellite image of the chicken crossing the road. '

HANS BLIX:' We have reason to believe there is a chicken, but we have not yet been allowed access to the other side of the road. '

MOHAMMED ALDOURI: (Iraq ambassador) 'the chicken did not cross the road. This is a complete fabrication. We don't even have a chicken. '

JERRY FALWELL: 'Because the chicken was gay! Isn't it obvious? Can't you people see the plain truth in front of your face? The chicken was going to the "other side. That's what they call it -- the other side. Yes, my friends, that chicken is gay. And, if you eat that chicken, you will become gay too. I say we boycott all chickens until we sort out this abomination that the liberal media whitewashes with seemingly harmless phrases like "the other side." '

DR. SEUSS:' Did the chicken cross the road? Did he cross it with a toad? Yes, the chicken crossed the road, but why it crossed, I've not been told! '

MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR.:' I envision a world where all chickens will be free to cross roads without having their motives called into question. '

JOHN LENNON:' Imagine all the chickens crossing roads in peace. '

RONALD REAGAN: 'What chicken? '

BILL CLINTON: 'I did not cross the road with THAT chicken. What do you mean by chicken? Could you define chicken, please? '

COLONEL SANDERS: 'I missed one?'

Now that one is funny because it's obvious satire. One is not led to think that those people really said those things.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Snow@Nov 2 2004, 11:30 PM

I'm sorry Amilia, you're groining have to make more sense than that to offend me.

What's all I got?

Snow--you are still about the only person who can make me laugh at 8:47 in the morning! :)

[Lindy]

Originally posted by Snow@Nov 2 2004, 11:30 PM

I'm sorry Amilia, you're groining have to make more sense than that to offend me.

I laughed and laughed......groining.......

thanks for the smiles!!!

[Amillia]

I haven't a clue why, but this reminded me of Snowboy.

"The commander of the huge C-141 transport plane was in a hurry to fly out of the frigid U.S. Air Base in Thule, Greenland. But everything was working against him. The truck to pump the sewage from the plane was late, and then the airman pumping out the tank was taking his sweet time. The commander began berating the lowly airman, threatening to have him punished.

"Turning to the officer, the airman said, "I have no stripes, it's 40 degrees below zero, I'm stationed in Thule, and I'm pumping sewage out of airplanes. Just how do you plan on punishing me?"

[Snow]

Originally posted by Amillia@Nov 2 2004, 12:52 PM

I received this as an email from a friend. It doesn't really matter whether it was Einstein who did it or not. Someone did and it is a great argument.

Peace,

Of course it matters if Einstein said it. The story depends upon Einstein's credibility and stature to make it plausible and entertaining (no one would give a pitute if Bella Abzug's name were attached to it.

And just the opposite of what you claim - it is an appallingly horrendous argument. It doesn't take a physicist to understand that the argument that cold is just the absence of heat, ergo God exists, is bunch of patooey. There is zero logic in the thought, coupled with the lie that a logical man (Einstein) is behind it make the whole thing a dishonest and manipulative work of bad fiction.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Snow+Nov 3 2004, 11:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ Nov 3 2004, 11:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Nov 2 2004, 12:52 PM

I received this as an email from a friend. It doesn't really matter whether it was Einstein who did it or not. Someone did and it is a great argument.

Peace,

Of course it matters if Einstein said it. The story depends upon Einstein's credibility and stature to make it plausible and entertaining (no one would give a pitute if Bella Abzug's name were attached to it.

And just the opposite of what you claim - it is an appallingly horrendous argument. It doesn't take a physicist to understand that the argument that cold is just the absence of heat, ergo God exists, is bunch of patooey. There is zero logic in the thought, coupled with the lie that a logical man (Einstein) is behind it make the whole thing a dishonest and manipulative work of bad fiction.

You are so retarded.

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Amillia+Nov 4 2004, 09:52 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Amillia @ Nov 4 2004, 09:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Snow@Nov 3 2004, 11:48 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Nov 2 2004, 12:52 PM

I received this as an email from a friend. It doesn't really matter whether it was Einstein who did it or not. Someone did and it is a great argument.

Peace,

Of course it matters if Einstein said it. The story depends upon Einstein's credibility and stature to make it plausible and entertaining (no one would give a pitute if Bella Abzug's name were attached to it.

And just the opposite of what you claim - it is an appallingly horrendous argument. It doesn't take a physicist to understand that the argument that cold is just the absence of heat, ergo God exists, is bunch of patooey. There is zero logic in the thought, coupled with the lie that a logical man (Einstein) is behind it make the whole thing a dishonest and manipulative work of bad fiction.

You are so retarded.

[Ray]

Good point, Snow. The opposite of good is evil, but the absence of either one is innocence. Amillia still made some good points, though, and you probably would have done more good if you acknowledged those good points instead of referring to everything she said as “imbecilic blather”. But I guess some people just have a hard time exhibiting both grace and truth.

I believe the main message Amillia was trying to convey is that God did not create evil, and that evil exists as a result of people who do things without the love of God in their hearts, or with the absence of God in their actions. Amillia didn’t mention the idea of people doing things, but because people ordinarily do things, what they do is considered to be either good or evil depending on the nature of the force prompting them to action. And btw, I’m referring to people who know good or evil and are therefore no longer innocent.

Or maybe Amillia only wanted to convey the idea that professors don’t know everything?

[Guest Unorthodox]

I don't think that story was intended to prove that God exists.

It was intended to DISPROVE the argument that He does not exist based on the fact that evil exists.

The conclusion is that God might exist, despite the existence of Evil.

[Ray]

I don’t think the existence of God was ever in question, at least not in Amillia’s post. The question was whether or not evil exists and whether or not God created it.

I think the story was intended to show that God did not create evil, while explaining what evil is.

I think the conclusion is that God did not create evil, and that evil exists in the minds and actions of people who do things contrary to the will of God.

[Guest Unorthodox]

Maybe I was not clear...

I was just trying to say that this argument does not prove that God exists...so I agree with Snow.

But...I disagree with Snow's accusation that the story was a useless argument...I was making the point that this argument was not intended to PROVE God's existence.

It was only intended to prove that God and Evil CAN both exist without contradiction.

Therefore it is a useful arguement for that purpose.

[Ray]

Ahh, yes. I see now. Good point. :)