Just a quick question

[Bassistdude4HF]

This last sunday i was at church and i saw a picture of Christ on the wall. I started to ask myself how can a man who lived in the desert and walked miles and miles everyday look this cacuasian it made no sense to me at all. I had asked an elder about this and he gave no real response so i asked the bishop and he told me to look at again with my heart and asked what i saw. What i had told him completley offended him. I said when i picture my savior on that cross he doesnt have long hair (Paul worte that it is offensive to have long hair) i see a dark skinned man who was mutliaited beyond sight. I said the picture in the chrch looked like a guy from a head shop. I know that we dont know what christ ever really looked like but i do try and use common sense with this subject. He just told me hes not too sure what to tell me and walked off.

Some missionaries and I started to talka bout Judas and what i had told them made them call me weak in my faith. Now i have been reading the bible for some time now and I just dont see an evil man. I just see a man who gave into temptaion and finally decided to take his life for his actions. I told these elders this and they fought and aurgued with me about how he worked for the devil and was possed. Now if you read from Mark to mathhew its weird how it can just say he gave him to the romans to how he was possed by Lucifier himself. I asked these missionaries if they ever gave into money before the lord they had told me yes they have and i asked them a question which brought my session with them to an end I had told them this : "So since you put money and greed b4 the Lord isnt that the same thing judas did now why arent u posssed by satan. THey gave me no real answers and said they had some other meeting to go to.

My question for who ever may be reading this is this. Why am i not seeing and beliving what everyone else seems to in my church. I belive J.Smith restored the gospel and i belive all scriptures and the church are true so why am i being treated like an outcast amongst the people who brought me into the faith? Just beacuse i belive god has revealed a few truths ot me im not pushing on people just when im asked so why do they treat me like this

[Hemidakota]

Which picture was it?

[Bassistdude4HF]

was the portait of his face and nothing more

[skylercollins]

It's only a rendering according to the artist. What did you tell the Bishop to offend him?

[Hemidakota]

was the portait of his face and nothing more

The one with a red robe?

[Elgama]

we have no idea what the Saviour looked like whilst on Earth or if his appearence is the same now - remember not even his disciples recognised him intially after the resurrection until he spoke, so there must have been some changes. The Christ you imagine on the cross may not look exactly like that now

I like the Christ in the Red-Robe for me thats the one that has his essence captured, something about the expression. I also like personally the fact that he is well built, he was the 1st Century ADs version of a builder not some little weedy guy, I love the power in the picture. But its probably OK not to like it - But then I like long hair and a beard, never quite forgiven President Hinckley for the speech that resulted in my clean shaven, short back and sides hubby lol

-Charley

[Hemidakota]

Would you give credit to President Hinckley when the church decide to construct a new Christ statue in bronze had to correct the artist several occasions to perfecting the statue?

[Hemidakota]

we have no idea what the Saviour looked like whilst on Earth or if his appearence is the same now - remember not even his disciples recognised him intially after the resurrection until he spoke, so there must have been some changes. The Christ you imagine on the cross may not look exactly like that now

I like the Christ in the Red-Robe for me thats the one that has his essence captured, something about the expression. I also like personally the fact that he is well built, he was the 1st Century ADs version of a builder not some little weedy guy, I love the power in the picture. But its probably OK not to like it - But then I like long hair and a beard, never quite forgiven President Hinckley for the speech that resulted in my clean shaven, short back and sides hubby lol

-Charley

There are those who have witnessed Him in both forms [mortal and eternal].

Though, good choice of images. This is the one I have in my office, next to my computer screen, along with Joseph Smith.

[Saguaro]

My question for who ever may be reading this is this. Why am i not seeing and beliving what everyone else seems to in my church. I belive J.Smith restored the gospel and i belive all scriptures and the church are true so why am i being treated like an outcast amongst the people who brought me into the faith? Just beacuse i belive god has revealed a few truths ot me im not pushing on people just when im asked so why do they treat me like this

The problem you are facing is that a lot of people in the church are not open to ideas other than those that they have been taught their whole life, even if those ideas are based on church culture and tradition, rather than doctrine.

You're right, no one knows what Jesus looked like, you're perfectly in your right to form a well thought out opinion of what he may have looked like. In our church Jesus has always been portrayed as white, handsome, with long but clean-cut hair. Those are artists interpretations, but they have become ingrained in our culture, so by stating a differing opinion others may become defensive or offended because they can't imagine him being any different.

Regarding Judas, we are quick to judge him, but only Christ can truly judge him. It's easy to blame Satan for what he did, but Satan can only tempt, Judas did what he did of his own free will, and none of us know what was going on in his head or know how he will ultimately be judged.

It is frustrating when you get in this kind of situation, my advice to you is to be patient and understanding when others disagree with you, follow your conscience and follow the spirit. People get defensive when their views are challenged, so try to present your ideas in a non-threatening way. I hope this helps.

[Hemidakota]

The Prophet Joseph Smith made this statement:

"From apostates the faithful have received the severest persecutions. Judas was rebuked and immediately betrayed his Lord into the hands of His enemies, because Satan entered into him. There is a superior intelligence bestowed upon such as obey the Gospel with full purpose of heart, which, if sinned against, the apostate is left naked and destitute of the Spirit of God, and he is in truth, nigh unto cursing, and his end is to be burned. When once that light which was in them is taken from them, they become as much darkened as they were previously enlightened, and then, no marvel, if all their power should be enlisted against the truth, and they Judas like seek the destruction of those who were their greatest benefactors." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 67.)

[Wingnut]

This last sunday i was at church and i saw a picture of Christ on the wall. I started to ask myself how can a man who lived in the desert and walked miles and miles everyday look this cacuasian it made no sense to me at all. I had asked an elder about this and he gave no real response so i asked the bishop and he told me to look at again with my heart and asked what i saw. What i had told him completley offended him. I said when i picture my savior on that cross he doesnt have long hair (Paul worte that it is offensive to have long hair) i see a dark skinned man who was mutliaited beyond sight. I said the picture in the chrch looked like a guy from a head shop. I know that we dont know what christ ever really looked like but i do try and use common sense with this subject. He just told me hes not too sure what to tell me and walked off.

I think you are correct to an extent. We know that Jesus was Jewish. We also know that he lived his life outdoors, for the most part (at least more so than we do today). Those two things would lend credence to the idea that he would be darker skinned that your average Caucasian. However, if you go to a Christian church in Africa, you might find Jesus portrayed as black. In Latin America, you might think He looks like a Mexican. In Asia, He could look Chinese. I could go on. The point is that He is portrayed as the artist imagines him.

As to the idea of mutilation, etc., you are also probably correct. He was beaten 39 stripes with something that may have been similar to a cat of nine tails, which has bone or rock shards attached to the ends of the whips. This beating came after He had dragged the cross through the streets of Jerusalem, but before the crown of thorns was pressed onto His head. He was likely quite beat up. This of course all took place after the Garden of Gethsemane, where we are told He bled from every pore. It is my belief that He hung on the cross naked, as part of further humiliation. Additionally, in order to breathe while hanging on the cross, He would have had to push His body up, putting all of his weight on His feet, then sink back down as that pain became too much. He would have repeated this process for the duration of the 12 hours He was on the cross. I'm sure the wood was not finely sanded, which would have caused greater mutilation to His back. It would not have been a pretty sight.

So why is this not portrayed in art? Frankly, because no one wants to see it. It's graphic. It does not inspire feelings of reverence or the Holy Spirit. How are children to find faith and comfort in Christ if they are terrified of Him because He looks like he belongs in a horror film?

Some missionaries and I started to talka bout Judas and what i had told them made them call me weak in my faith. Now i have been reading the bible for some time now and I just dont see an evil man. I just see a man who gave into temptaion and finally decided to take his life for his actions. I told these elders this and they fought and aurgued with me about how he worked for the devil and was possed. Now if you read from Mark to mathhew its weird how it can just say he gave him to the romans to how he was possed by Lucifier himself. I asked these missionaries if they ever gave into money before the lord they had told me yes they have and i asked them a question which brought my session with them to an end I had told them this : "So since you put money and greed b4 the Lord isnt that the same thing judas did now why arent u posssed by satan. THey gave me no real answers and said they had some other meeting to go to.

I agree with both sides of this argument to an extent. Mostly I don't worry about it because it affects Judas' salvation, not mine. I actually don't think that Judas had any idea what his actions would result in. He betrayed Jesus' location...that was it. He revealed where Jesus could be found, but we have no indication that he knew that Jesus would be tortured and hung on the cross.

My question for who ever may be reading this is this. Why am i not seeing and beliving what everyone else seems to in my church. I belive J.Smith restored the gospel and i belive all scriptures and the church are true so why am i being treated like an outcast amongst the people who brought me into the faith? Just beacuse i belive god has revealed a few truths ot me im not pushing on people just when im asked so why do they treat me like this

People can be close-minded. They may have a hard time thinking outside the box. I think that they don't want to think about a bloody Jesus. I don't want to think about it. But it doesn't mean I would (or should) shun you for it.

[Hemidakota]

Let me quote this out of the book of 'Miracle of Forgiveness' by President Spencer W. Kimball concerning those who will contend that Judas is a Son of Perdition.

Speculation as to individual sons of perdition is at best unprofitable. Some have consigned Judas Iscariot to this doom, based on certain scriptural passages. (See John 12:6; 6:70; 17:12; Acts 1:20.) President Joseph F. Smith questions this interpretation:

To my mind it strongly appears that not one of the disciples possessed sufficient light, knowledge nor wisdom, at the time of the crucifixion, for either exaltation or condemnation; for it was afterward that their minds were opened to understand the scriptures, and that they were endowed with power from on high; without which they were only children in knowledge, in comparison to what they afterwards became under the influence of the Spirit.

[Hemidakota]

I was referring too this statue:

[Hemidakota]

Most common picture you will find in the hallways is this one:

Credit: LDS.Org

[YoungMormonRoyalist]

May I point a key factor in regards to Christ's physical appearance:

While some of his DNA would've come from Mary, a lot of it would have been made up from what God himself created. It is quite possible that he would have looked very distinct because of this. Who knows what God shaped and molded him to look like?

[Elgama]

There are those who have witnessed Him in both forms [mortal and eternal].

Though, good choice of images. This is the one I have in my office, next to my computer screen, along with Joseph Smith.

ok lol I should have said I have no idea what Jesus looks like:) it is true other mortals on this site may have greater knowledge than myself. My own reaction to it was initially was his hair should be a little darker, but thats Him.

-Charley

[Elgama]

May I point a key factor in regards to Christ's physical appearance:

While some of his DNA would've come from Mary, a lot of it would have been made up from what God himself created. It is quite possible that he would have looked very distinct because of this. Who knows what God shaped and molded him to look like?

Also it is not impossible that he may have had Arab/Greek/Roman DNA within Him at this time. We know his direct lineage but not the direct lineage of all those that contributed. A slightly Mediteranean/Jewish appearance would have been no more remarkable than a 1st Century Jew - there is not that big a gap between Rome and Greece and Israel

My family history is 100% British for over 300 years, and with the surnames probably a thousand years with some Scandinavian Influence. but my appearance indicates I have some Mediteranean/Middle Eastern background at some point, in the summer I used to get chatted up by Jewish and Arab guys as they assumed I was either Jewish or Middle Eastern

-Charley

[hordak]

What Jesus would have looked like according to Forensic anthropology.

http://media.popularmechanics.com/images/tb_jesuslead-lg.jpg

[Elgama]

What Jesus would have looked like according to Forensic anthropology.

http://media.popularmechanics.com/images/tb_jesuslead-lg.jpg

it is what the first century jew who's skull they used look like - unless that skull actually belonged to Jesus its not what he looked like. If they reconstructed your neighbour's skull it may tell you what a 21st Century American looks like but not what you look like

-Charley

[Elgama]

Most common picture you will find in the hallways is this one:

Credit: LDS.Org

thats the one I like I really don't like the weedy renaissance style one that has started creeping in.

-Charley

[rameumptom]

The key is to separate out core doctrine from personal views. Your view of the picture of Christ is as valid as the bishop's. Neither view is wrong, just different. But you won't always get people to change their views, as we don't know what has caused those views in the first place.

You may be seeing an inaccurate portrayal of the Christ. The bishop may be seeing a symbol of the God he loves. Both may be correct, but if two people talk past each other it can cause angst and confusion. The bishop may have been correct to just walk away, rather than argue, as there was no correct answer.

I find that in discussing topics with people, we need to learn to determine who is ready/not ready, in order to not cause confusion, chaos, or contention.

You see things differently than others. That is neither right nor wrong. But since it is different, you must also allow them the room to believe as they will.

[Hemidakota]

May I point a key factor in regards to Christ's physical appearance:

While some of his DNA would've come from Mary, a lot of it would have been made up from what God himself created. It is quite possible that he would have looked very distinct because of this. Who knows what God shaped and molded him to look like?

It can be made known for your personal edification...that is a true statement. Do not sell yourself short.

[Guest DeborahC]

The fact is that nobody knows what Jesus looked like and it must not be too important since none of the Gospels address the issue except to say he wasn't particularly comely.

As a Portuguese person who people often refer to as "looking Irish" I can tell you that there is no one formula. We are ALL a mixed up mess, and in the time of Christ it was no different! Just as Portuguese people come dark-skinned with black hair (Moorish influence) they also come with red hair and fair skin like mine (Flemish, perhaps?). I have three sons, none of whom look alike. One has blond hair, one has black, and one has brown. The eldest is short, the youngest is tall, and the middle is, well, shall we say "portly."

The area where Christ came from was no different - and people came along trade routes and war from various cultures. Here is a photo of a current Nazareth citizen... the one in the red is brother to the dark one...

Older photos show the same type of cross-cultural looks:

In my travels I've seen red headed, black headed, brown headed, blond Jesus pictures. I've seen Jesus dressed in red robes, white robes, blue robes, and even a white skirt.

It doesn't matter... his words are what we are to pay attention to, not his appearance, which could get in the way of the words.

Edited December 8, 2008 by DeborahC

[workofart2]

it come down to artist interruption if you where to picture god what would he look like

( an old man with long grey hair and grey beard? ) but god dose not age so he would not have grey hair.

but that is usually the picture we have in our heads.

[Hemidakota]

The fact is that nobody knows what Jesus looked like and it must not be too important since none of the Gospels address the issue except to say he wasn't particularly comely.

As a Portuguese person who people often refer to as "looking Irish" I can tell you that there is no one formula. We are ALL a mixed up mess, and in the time of Christ it was no different! Just as Portuguese people come dark-skinned with black hair (Moorish influence) they also come with red hair and fair skin like mine (Flemish, perhaps?). I have three sons, none of whom look alike. One has blond hair, one has black, and one has brown. The eldest is short, the youngest is tall, and the middle is, well, shall we say "portly."

The area where Christ came from was no different - and people came along trade routes and war from various cultures. Here is a photo of a current Nazareth citizen... the one in the red is brother to the dark one...

In my travels I've seen red headed, black headed, brown headed, blond Jesus pictures. I've seen Jesus dressed in red robes, white robes, blue robes, and even a white skirt.

It doesn't matter... his words are what we are to pay attention to, not his appearance, which could get in the way of the words.

That is not correct statement. There are witnesses on this earth, who had that special witnessed of the Godhead. They will all agree upon a common image that most resembled of what they were privy in witnessing.

Your phrase should be restated: "I DO NOT know what Jesus looked like and it must not be too important since none of the Gospels address the issue except to say he wasn't particularly comely. "

It does matter in this mortality to know the Godhead.