MORMON 6:6 by Jerry L. Ainsworth

[Hemidakota]

[E-mail from last Friday]

While living in Salt Lake City for the past few months and giving numerous firesides, I am amazed at how many church members are still perplexed about the location of Cumorah, the hill mentioned in the Book of Mormon. In my efforts to explain this conundrum in short order, rather than a protracted discussion, I have finally reduced this explanation to one scripture, a scripture that pretty well eliminates the hill Cumorah as the hill where Moroni buried the plates that Joseph Smith retrieved.

Once this scripture is appreciated, it is all a person should need to know in order to eliminate the hill in up-state New York, (where Joseph Smith recovered the plates), as a candidate for the hill Cumorah mention in the Book of Mormon. The scripture I am referring to is Mormon 6:6, which is given below:

“And it came to pass that when we had gathered in all of our people in one to the land of Cumorah, behold I Mormon, began to be old; and knowing it to be the last struggle of my people, and having been commanded of the Lord that I should not suffer the records which had been handed down by our fathers, which were sacred, to fall into the hands of the Lamanites, (for the Lamantes would destroy them) therefore I made this record out of the plates of Nephi, and hid up in the hill Cumorah all the records which had been entrusted to me by the hand of the Lord, save it were these few plates which I gave unto my son Moroni.”

Mormon buried the whole Nephite library, around AD 385, when he was 75 years old. There are four events/dates of importance related to the burying of these records, as well as those buried by Moroni:

Mormon 4:16-19

These verses indicate that the Lamanites and Nephites were still fighting around the city Desolation around AD 379. The city Desolation was very close to the narrow neck of land. In other words, six years before the battle of Cumorah, and before Mormon moved the Nephite library from the hill Shim to the hill Cumorah, the whole Nephite nation was living close to the narrow neck of land. Most LDS scholars consider this narrow neck to be in Southern Mexico – over 3,000 miles from up-state New York.

Mormon 6:6

Some time between AD 380 and AD 385, Mormon buried the whole Nephite *library in the hill Cumorah. All the records except the few (the abridgment) he gave to his son Moroni. The final major battle of the Nephite nation took place in the shadows of the hill Cumorah in AD 385.

Mormon 8:6

After the battle at Cumorah, Mormon was chased for fourteen years, at which time the Lamanites finally killed him in AD 399. Moroni then assumed responsibility for completing the abridgment of his father, some fifteen years after the battle of Cumorah. It appears that the hill Cumorah was not that far from the narrow neck of land, but even if it was, say, in up-state New York, the scriptures state that Mormon was chased for around fourteen years after the battle of Cumorah. It is hard to imagine that for fourteen years Mormon ran from the Lamanites, yet stayed close to the hill where he had earlier buried the complete Nephite library. Since the Lamanites controlled and occupied all the lands southward, common sense suggests that Mormon was chased into and through the lands northward, possibly even further, into one of the “north countries.”

Ether 1:1 suggests that Moroni received the plates from his father, prior to Mormon’s death, while in one of these north countries.

Moroni 10:1

Moroni received the plates from his father in AD 399, and buried them in up-state New York in AD 421. Once again, if Moroni buried the plates in the hill Cumorah, the hill mentioned in Mormon 6:6, then the Lamanites would have had to chase him for twenty one additional years, in the same vicinity of the hill were the Nephite library was buried. I just don’t envision either Mormon or Moroni traveling in circles around the hill Cumorah for 36 years, while being chased by the Lamanites. This would especially be true if, as we assume no one buried the 230,000 Nephites killed around the hill Cumorah, during the battle of AD 385. Not only would Mormon and Moroni have had to travel around that same vicinity, but be subjected to the desolation of those conditions, foul odor, dead and decaying bodies, diseases, etc.

In AD 385 Mormon buried the whole Nephite library in the hill Cumorah, which logic would place close to the narrow neck of land. Scripture tells us that the only plates that Mormon did not bury in the hill Cumorah, was the abridgment which his son Moroni buried some 36 years later in up-state New York. These were the few plates which Joseph Smith retrieved under the direction of Moroni.

As a form of logic, about the only hill on this continent, that could not be the hill where Moroni buried his father’s abridgment, would be the hill Cumorah. Mormon and Moroni were chased northward, away from the hill Cumorah, for 36 years, which took Moroni to up-state New York. In AD 421 Moroni buried the plates in a small hill, which Joseph Smith referred to as, “That hill in up-state New York.”

The hill the Book of Mormon refers to as the hill Cumorah was south of the lands traveled by Mormon and Moroni for 36 years. Thirty six years of traveled that culminated in Moroni’s arrival at the hill in up-state New York, where he buried his father’s abridgment. From statements made by Brigham Young and Joseph Smith, we know that Moroni dedicated the Manti and St. George temple sites, as well as the Nauvoo and Kirtland temple sites. We therefore know that he walked the distance from Utah to up-state New York, assumedly being chased by the Lamanites. This and other information make it fairly certain that Moroni was circumnavigating the hill Cumorah after receiving the plates from his father, but traveled a great distance during those 21 years. It’s a safe assumption he was traveling away from, not towards the hill Cumorah mentioned in Mormon 6:6.

*When describing the number of plates Mormon buried in the hill Cumorah, Brigham Young stated there were enough gold plates stored there to “fill many wagons loads.” He obtained that information from statements made by the prophet Joseph Smith, who indicated that he and Oliver Cowdery, while in the spirit, were allowed to see the contents of the cave inside Cumorah, where the Nephite library was concealed.

And one last personal observation. If I were Mormon one of my objectives would be to to keep the Lamanites from locateing the Nephite library and then destroying the records, after the battle of Cumorah. Knowing I was going to be chased by the Lamanites, I would set my course to take me as far from that sacred hill as possible. It seems to me that the last thing either Mormon or Moroni would do, would be to hang around the hill Cumorah for 36 years, so when the Lamanites had finally caught and killed these two prophets, they would be in the very neighborhood of the hill with the Nephite library. It seems to me that they would want to lead them as far as possible from that location, which it appears they did.

[justamere10]

I posted in Jerry's forum on the LDS1.org board an interesting email exchange Jerry had regarding his message in the January issue of the Mormon Sites newsletter. Here it is:

Email to Jerry:

Jerry what if the Yucatan peninsula was at a time divided as seen in two of the maps in your book, and as you speculate, but perhaps still connected by a narrow strip of land? The peninsula does represent a land northward. That would then shift or twist the speculative Book of Mormon lands into an orientation that seems more fitting with the concentration of discovered ancient cities of it's period. It's also interesting that records of an invading army inscribed on monuments, have it coming into this area the same years that Mormon records the exact same sort of thing, maybe its a coincidence that two military powers were defending cities against an overwhelming invading army unsuccessfully in the exact same time period in the same general location of mesoamerica, but that shift in orientation would put the events of 378 right on top of each other. That would then put cumorah in northern Yucatan? And the other hill Shim perhaps in the Maya mountains near or in Beliese? Then the Jaradite great northern body of water is the gulf. And the Books north south east and west orientation would also fit better. I guess it just depends how one speculates, you can look for a narrow neck and then look for cities near it and history near it and search for a match, or you can use the reverse approach looking for cities and history and type of civilization that match the time frame and description and then look for where the narrow neck might have been. Until its pinpointed precicely I think both options are worthy of exploration.

Jerry's response:

Thanks for your comments, suggestions and questions. At some point what most of us end up doing is speculating. I try to have my speculations based on the best history and archaeology available. I find when I do so, my speculations become more believable, more factual and less speculative, as do others who have supporting data for their speculations.

Having said that, I will respond to your questions, suggestions, etc.

First of all, it is not my speculation that the Yucatan was an island, as I have 13 maps that show it as such. The speculation would be that it was not an island. I put two of those maps in my book, but did not put all that I had. I assumed that two maps would be adequate, and now realize that may not be the case. Each time I see a reliable map that purports to represent ancient southern Mexico, the first thing I look for is the Yucatan, to see if they have it as an island. With rare exception, it is represented as an island during those Pre-Columbian times.

Therefore, if I have over a dozen maps documenting that the peninsula was an island, is that then a speculation on my part?

Secondly, to the best of my knowledge there are only a few sites on the Yucatan that date to Book of Mormon times, and those are in the northern tip. I know of no ancient sites in the middle part of the Yucatan that date to time periods before Christ. I do know there were small nomadic habitations that date to those times, but nothing anyone could mistake for the cities mentioned in the Book of Mormon during the times of Alma, Helaman, Christ, etc.

Thirdly, if the battle of Cumorah were to have taken place on the Yucatan, then so did the battle of the Jaredites, as both took place in the same location. I have never heard an authoritative claim that at 299bc, (the date of the last Jaredite battle), there was a battle in which over a million people were killed in or around the Yucatan. This would also mean that those one million people would have had to have water and food to support them. During that time period, I don't believe it would have, as it had no surface rivers and almost no topsoil. Besides, the Book of Ether states that the Jaredites never went south of narrow neck. If the narrow neck was a strip of land that connected the Yucatan, and the land northward was the peninsula, then the Jaredites would have had to live on the peninsula for 2500 years. Had they done that, there would have been ample evidences of their cities, their populations, etc. I know of no such evidence in the peninsula - just to the contrary. Besides, Moroni tells us where a big chunk of the Jaredites were, as he indicates in Ether 1:1 that they were in one of the north countries, (not land northward). There is fairly good evidence that when Moroni wrote that, he was in southern Utah, as we know he dedicated temples sites in Utah, as well as else where in the U.S.A.

Fourthly, because so many people have speculated similar things about the Yucatan, I have spoken, numerous times, to the minister of Agriculture of Mexico, (which he is getting tired of by the way), and asked him about growing things in the Yucatan, in such a way so as to support a civilization. I am told the same thing every time I ask, which I have already known independently:

a. The Yucatan has no surface rivers to use in the watering of crops.

b. The Yucatan, during the time of the Book of Mormon, had almost no topsoil, and has precious little now. The soil therefore does not support the growing of crops. Although brush does grow on the peninsula, since there are almost no nutrients in the soil, things that are grown there have very low levels of nutrients - and had even lower levels during Book of Mormon days. It is why all of the food for the tourist areas of Cancun, Costa Maya, etc, are imported and not grown on the peninsula. This is not speculation. This is supported by historical data and confirmed by current authorities. The Yucatan is not a hospitable place, and large populations can only be maintained from large numbers of food imports via trucks, etc.

If this is where the Lord led the Jaredites, and other of his people, then he led them to one of the most uninhabitable and unproductuve places on this continent.

Prior to the peninsula being turned into a tourist Mecca, it had one of the highest levels of poisonous snakes in all of Mexico, which was another reason people were reluctant to live there. In fact, when they started building the tourist site now known as Cancun, they gave it the name the locals called it, Cancun means "the snake pit." Remember the Jaredites drove all the snakes out of the land northward, across the narrow neck and into the land southward. This means that the one place the snakes would not have been, would be on the Yucatan, (if that is where the Jaredites lived). And just the opposite appears to be the case. This is where the Jaredites drove the snakes to, not from.

Five. My calculations put the Yucatan north of Zarahemla, not northward, (northwest). And remember, Mormon and Moroni refer to the "north countries," which were north of the land northward. If the Yucatan is the land northward, then the north countries would have had to be in the Gulf of Mexico.

Sixth. I don't know what invading armies you are talking about in the Yucatan. I don't know of any document, stela, monument, record, that has an invading army entering the Yucatan in 378ad. I'm willing to be educated in that regard, but as of this writing, I have never seen such evidence. In 387ad, I don't know what an army would have invaded, as there were almost no cities worth invading. The ancient writings of Chemuel(sp?) state that the main reason people migrated to this area was to get away from the nutty folks who were always warring with each other, trying to take over their cities. These people therefore moved to the Yucatan, as it was so unattractive, that they assumed no one would be crazy enough to invade them, as no one would want what they had. (That record that I just referenced, dates to 421ad)

Seventh. If I was Mormon and decided to select a place for a final battle, in order "to gain advantage over the Lamanites," (see Mormon 6:4), the absolute last place I would schedule the battle would be on the Yucatan, as it would place me in a location with no retreat. Since the armies of the Lamanites came from their lands, it means they came from the south, marching to the north. That would place Mormon's army in the north of the Yucatan, with absolutely no direction for a retreat.

Mormon describes the land of Cumorah and states it is a land of rivers and fountains, (see Mormon 6:4). There are no rivers on the Yucatan, nor are there any fountains that I am aware of. There are ceynotes, but Mr. Webster and I have already resolved that issue. We know that a ceynote is not a fountain, nor is it a spring, as some people try to convert what Mormon wrote into something different. They say what Mormon really meant to say was spring, not fountain. Wrong. He meant exactly what he wrote. He was a supurb historian. Had Mormon meant a spring, rather than a fountain, I am confident that he would have written spring, rather than fountain.

Eighth. I have spent an inordinate amount of time in the Yucatan. I have driven and/or walked most of it. I know of no hill on which Mormon and Moroni could secret themselves and not be discovered by the Lamanites, and yet stay there long enough for Mormon to recover from his wounds. Remember, he was wounded and left for dead during the battle, (see Mormon 6:10). The hill also had to be tall enough to see cohorts of 10,000 fall in battle, (see Mormon 6:10-13).

The Yucatan is flat, and from what Mosiah 8:8 says, as well as Mormon 6:4, the land/hill Cumorah was by the ocean. There are a few hills in the center of the Yucatan, the Puuc hills, but none that I know of by the ocean. If you read Mormon 6:7 carfully, it tells us, "...that my people,...did behold the armies of the Lamanites marching towards them; and with that awful fear of death, which fills the breasts of all the wicked, did they await to receive them."

The land of Cumorah undulates enough that allowed the Nephites to be high enough to see across a valley, to the other side, in order to see the Lamanites marching toward them. I know of no place in the Yucatan, by the coast, that would allow for such a visual for the Nephites. Indeed, just the opposite. The brush of the Yucatan is so thick and so tall, that you cannot see squat when standing at ground level.

Ninth. There were 230,000 Nephites killed at the battle of Cumorah. The Lamanites lost at least that many men, probably more like 500,000. I know of no location in the Yucatan that has evidence of that kind of battle, the remains of dead people, their weapons of war, etc. Nor am I aware of any record that indicates such a battle. And we then have to add the million Jaredites that were killed in the same land, with all of their weapons.

Tenth. Mormon selected a place for the battle that was to give him an advantage. If he selected the Yucatan, that means he would have selected a place with no rivers, land that was almost non-productive, because of the lack of top soil, (remember, he had to feed 230,000 for five years, as well as have water for them, etc.). The Yucatan would have placed them in one of the hottest places in Mesoamerica, remember the gathering took close to five years - so for at least four years they would have had to stand the brutal sun of the Yucatan summers. It would have placed them in a place where water was hard to come by, food was almost impossible to produce, was infested by snakes, and left no place for them to retreat. That does not sound like an advantage to me.

I could give many additional reasons for my conclusions about the Yucatan, but it seems as if these should suffice.

Once again, I appreciate your willingness to write, question, speculate and offer alternative views. Until someone with authority speaks, we are all free to have our own views about this, and I have learned that every view is worthy of consideration and discussion. I thank you for yours.

Ask a Mormon - LDS Cyber Missionaries Forum lds1.org • View topic - Jerry's Mormon Sites Newsletters 2009

Feel free to write your own comments and ask questions for Jerry on the LDS1.org board. He is not comfortable with discussion boards but I often email posts to him and copy his reponses in his forum there.

http://www.lds1.org

http://www.ctr1.org

Edited January 3, 2009 by justamere10

[cjmaldrich]

Jerry Ainsworth is a pretty cool guy... Very smart, but man he writes a LOT

[justamere10]

Jerry Ainsworth is a pretty cool guy... Very smart, but man he writes a LOT

Check out the two "Reading Rooms" at Mormon Sites:

Book of Mormon Geography - Reading Room - page 5

[Maya]

Jerry Ainsworth is a pretty cool guy... Very smart, but man he writes a LOT

I agree! Only I would say AND he wites a lot! :) I could read his writtings more often! He is a great guy!

Thanks Hemi and Justamare.

I think that I have always understood it the way that Moroni travelled with the plates a pretty long time before he burryied then down.

Anybody a link to it when Moroni blessed (or what word you use) the Templeplaces in Utah.

[Hemidakota]

When we come together in collaboration, it is moments like this I truly look forward too every day. I deeply appreciate those who want to gain further light and knowledge of not only our historical records but a deeper knowledge of WHAT WAS, WHAT IS, and WHAT SHALL BE.

Thanks again with the sincere gratitude.

[poulsenll]

Although I do not agree with everything Jerry says, I do agree with what he says about the Yucatan. One of the problems with many speculations about BofM geography is the lack of considering all elements of their choice for a location and concentrating on a few verses that fit their desired location. Many of the arguments listed by Jerry also apply to the New York Hill Cumorah. The major one is the size of hill required to give visibility for long distances and the need to be capable of Hiding the survivors from the large numbers of surviving Lamanites.

Larry P

[justamere10]

Although I do not agree with everything Jerry says, I do agree with what he says about the Yucatan. One of the problems with many speculations about BofM geography is the lack of considering all elements of their choice for a location and concentrating on a few verses that fit their desired location. Many of the arguments listed by Jerry also apply to the New York Hill Cumorah. The major one is the size of hill required to give visibility for long distances and the need to be capable of Hiding the survivors from the large numbers of surviving Lamanites.

Larry P

Are you still of the opinion Larry that the most likely candidate for Cumorah of the Final Battles is a hill not far from the one Jerry favors?

[poulsenll]

Justamere

I dont entirely discount Jerry's choice but based on the text, the BoM Cumorah has to be some place near the west coast of the gulf. I favor any small isolated mountain or mountain range. Jerry's choice is a single mountain and therefore does not provide much diversity in hiding locations. The range just north of Tepetzintla (south of Bernal) is larger, has a central valley that opens to the south (remember some of the Nephites escaped to the south) and provides several lookout peaks along the ridge surrounding the central valley. There are a number of smaller peaks in the area, one near the town and incidentally Tepetzintla translates to corn hill in English. A suggested translation for the Hill Shim is also corn hill. The Book of Mormon does not indicate how close these two hills were and they might have been part of the same isolated group of mountains. I dont think Mormon would have liked to transport all those records for too great a distance. I think he was more interested in changing their location, possibly because the Hill Shim was well known as the record storage location. Just changing them to a nearby unknown location would have kept them hidden from the Lamanites.

So I prefer Tepetzintla but dont rule out Bernal. They both meet the scanty criteria found in the Book of Mormon text.

Larry P

[justamere10]

Justamere

I dont entirely discount Jerry's choice but based on the text, the BoM Cumorah has to be some place near the west coast of the gulf. I favor any small isolated mountain or mountain range. Jerry's choice is a single mountain and therefore does not provide much diversity in hiding locations. The range just north of Tepetzintla (south of Bernal) is larger, has a central valley that opens to the south (remember some of the Nephites escaped to the south) and provides several lookout peaks along the ridge surrounding the central valley. There are a number of smaller peaks in the area, one near the town and incidentally Tepetzintla translates to corn hill in English. A suggested translation for the Hill Shim is also corn hill. The Book of Mormon does not indicate how close these two hills were and they might have been part of the same isolated group of mountains. I dont think Mormon would have liked to transport all those records for too great a distance. I think he was more interested in changing their location, possibly because the Hill Shim was well known as the record storage location. Just changing them to a nearby unknown location would have kept them hidden from the Lamanites.

So I prefer Tepetzintla but dont rule out Bernal. They both meet the scanty criteria found in the Book of Mormon text.

Larry P

Jerry is aware of course of the suggested location of Hill Shim where the records were at one time. (Not the Allen Shim.) It didn't connect with me that your favored Cumorah location was Shim. Am I right on that?

When I was at Bernal with Jerry I suggested that we go to Shim but if I remember correctly it was obvious from the excuses made that neither he nor Este would go there, nor would they go far up on Bernal. They had very frightening experiences there in the past and were afraid to go much further than where the armed Mexican guards stop vehicles from going futher up the mountain.

Apparently Shim is guarded by locals with some terrible penalties for anyone local who serves as a guide into the caves. At one time Jerry thought Shim might be the mountain the Brother of Jared moved, I don't know if he is still of that opinion.

And now George Potter is about to mess with the Mesoamerican theory with a new book about his findings in Peru!

Fascinating stuff, it will be exciting when the Lord finally allows the Nephite library to be translated. Garth Norman has done some interesting research at the Cedar Gap recently and Jerry is now focussed on Utah. (Probably nothing connected.)

Stay tuned to Mormon Sites, you never know when a plan might come together... :)

Mormon Sites - rising from the dust...

[Maya]

This is so interesting IMHO. I ofcourse go for Mayas!

PS IM aka Mailis, just in case you did not notice. Got my name finally changed to the right one Following eagerly all opinions and arceology.

[Justice]

I dont entirely discount Jerry's choice but based on the text, the BoM Cumorah has to be some place near the west coast of the gulf.

I haven't studied this issue enough to make any decision, but this is one truth that is mentioned in the Book of Mormon and should be part of every honest seekers answer.

I believe the Book of Mormon reveals more clues about the location of Cumorah than most people realize.

[justamere10]

I haven't studied this issue enough to make any decision, but this is one truth that is mentioned in the Book of Mormon and should be part of every honest seekers answer.

I believe the Book of Mormon reveals more clues about the location of Cumorah than most people realize.

In addition to his book "The Lives and Travels of Mormon and Moroni" Jerry has written several articles about which hill's Cumorah of the Final Battles in the two Reading Rooms at Mormon Sites.

Book of Mormon Geography - Reading Room - page 5

[poulsenll]

My favored Cumorah is the mountain range north of the town of Tepetzintla. I think that Shim is in the same area , possibly just south of Tepetzintla. The BofM does not give us any idea of the size of Shim. It could be any of the hills around the town. I think the town may have been named after the Hill but after the records were moved its significance dissappeared with time.

Larry P

[justamere10]

My favored Cumorah is the mountain range north of the town of Tepetzintla. I think that Shim is in the same area , possibly just south of Tepetzintla. The BofM does not give us any idea of the size of Shim. It could be any of the hills around the town. I think the town may have been named after the Hill but after the records were moved its significance dissappeared with time. Larry P

Thanks for explaining, I misunderstood.

He admits that it is "highly speculative" and as usual proof of the Book of Mormon remains spiritual, but Jerry has some ideas about Shim. Here's the last part of an article on Mormon Sites that Jerry wrote titled "Mount Zerin and the Hill Shim:

This scenario therefore fulfills the two aspects of Chicomoztoc. It represents the seven families coming over in seven boats, and then emerging from seven caves. Part of my proposed scenario also assumes that the eight boats still exist in the caves of this mountain, which now is viewed as a very large hill. (It could easily be called a mountain)

There is such a hill in the Puebla/Tlaxcala area, called Malenchi. This hill, especially the caves, are viewed by the local people as so sacred, that no one is allowed in them, upon threat of death. Indeed a number of people have been killed trying to enter these caves.

I believe that the eight boats of the Jaredites still exist, and like the ark of Noah and the Ark of the Covenant, will at some future date be brought out of their “hiding places” and shown to the worthy public.

I also believe that the hill referred to, (Malenchi), is the hill that Ammaron refers to in Mormon 1:3, where he tells Mormon:

“Therefore, when ye are about twenty and four years old, I would that ye should remember the things that ye have observed concerning this people; and when ye are of that age go to the land Antum, unto a hill which shall be called Shim; and there have I deposited unto the Lord all the sacred engravings concerning this people.” (bold added)

I believe it was this same hill that Ammaron used to deposit the plates of Nephi, and from where Mormon retrieved them. You will notice that Ammaron renamed the hill. He states that the hill “shall be called Shim.” I believe the name of that hill, before Ammaron changed it, was Zerin. I believe Ammaron changed the name for two reasons:

a. It was no longer a mountain, but was now a hill, albeit a very large one.

b. People probably knew the history and sacred nature of Zerin. Ammaron therefore

re-named it so people of Mormon’s day would not be aware of its sacred nature and

therefore not go into it to destroy, or steal the plates, and other sacred artifacts

which are still in the seven caves of that hill.

As an aside to this story I do know of one person who has been into one of these caves, partially. He saw the remains of a very large person, (the Jaredites were large). The femur of those remains was the length of - from his hip to the ground. About twice the size of a regular femur. And, the sad part of this story - the local person who took him into the cave was killed for doing so. The local townspeople never knew the name of the person taken into the hill, or they would have hunted him down and killed him also.

Once again, as I stated at the beginning of this paper, this is a very speculative account of these pieces of information and of the Zerin/Jaredite story. But I believe it is an account worthy of discussion.

9-18-2005

As an addendum to this article I received an email from my ‘exploration partner” today which gives some insight into this proposed scenario of mine. The small village that is located by the entrance to these caves, is about half way down the side of this hill, currently named Malinche. Esteban just discovered that the ancient name of this village is las canoas,(the canoes). The obvious question is what a village on the side of a hill, where there are no lakes or rivers, and which does not make canoes, is named the village of the canoes. Is it possible because the village is by where the Jaredite boats are secreted?

Book of Mormon Geography - Reading Room - page 5

Highly speculative of course, but nonetheless fascinating. On one of my expeditions with Jerry the local villagers in several separate locations told of a recent flood where they saw the bones of huge people sticking out of the mud. On that expedition we were the first Americans to look at a large carved stone found the week before buried in a farmer's field. It's quite possible that it would date to the same time as the Olmec stone heads??

Edited January 4, 2009 by justamere10