When Jesus Comes

[Traveler]

Originally posted by curvette+Dec 6 2004, 04:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Dec 6 2004, 04:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Traveler@Dec 5 2004, 04:36 PM

it is recorded that when the Alexandrian library was burned that the daughter of the library’s administrator (A Trinitarian Heretic) was dragged nicked through the streets and skinned alive with seashells for her sins.

The Traveler

Yikes! It's good to be an American, huh? (I've heard that the Alexandrians were quite the rambunctious fellas!)

Although the library was burned by men in robes of priests it is believe they were a legion of the Roman army. The Greeks had little to do with the attack. The Romans attacked by ships (Roman ships) from the sea. Theodosius was the Christian Emperor of Rome that commanded the legion but many deny Theodosius gave the order. Rome controlled the waters and the attack could not have taken place without Theodosius knowing. It is important to note that this event ended a longstanding debate concerning the Trinitarian nature of G-d.

The Traveler

[Amillia]

Originally posted by speedomansam+Dec 5 2004, 09:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (speedomansam @ Dec 5 2004, 09:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Amillia@Dec 5 2004, 06:42 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Traveler@Dec 1 2004, 07:28 AM

I am taking an informal survey.  What is the final sign that you as a Christian are looking for that will convince you that Jesus has returned?  Please indicate what it is that convinces you, a short explanation of why and your Christian affiliation. 

I am aware that many, like doubting Thomas, do not have faith enough except they feel the prints in his side, hands and feet.  For you and the rest of you, if you would please indicate what you are looking forward to.  If you do not know of a sign or have not thought about it or do not think there will be a sign – please indicate your opinion and why.  In general how will you know Jesus (not an imposter as prophesied) has come again to live among mankind? 

The Traveler

I believe Christ has already come when He appeared to Joseph Smith and established his kingdom on earth again. Those who are zion know this already.

but what about every knee bowing? the millenium where Christ reigns personally upon the earth (article of faith)? the millenium where satan is bound? prophets in jerusalem dying and being resurrected? the wicked all being burned? and tons of other things?

these things haven't happened yet. when Christ comes, then the millenium will come where the wickedness we see today won't exist.

All those things are happening every single day.

Daily people are being brought to their knees, knowing and confessing Jesus is the Christ.

Daily Christ reigns int he hearts of the righteous.

Satan is bound by the righteous, in their lives. He can't do a thing!

How would you know about the prophets dying in Jerusalem, when they did?

Daily the wicked are burned when they die

in their sins.

Haven't you ever heard the stories of the Near Death Experience people?

Try reading Alma's account of being tormented by his sins.

I had a dream once where I was shown how those who died in their sins were

like they became one of the burned out stumps in a forest that had burned to

stubble.

Symbolism helps us get a feel for what we will and do experience daily.

[Guest lt]

I believe if we are worthy children we will be given that knowledge either just before or at that time.

We have been told by the prophet in many talks that we should prepare, none of us know when that time will come for us to meet our maker. For some it may be before the end and for others, they will meet him at the end......But if meeting him and returning with him is a desire we hold, we must work for it now.......So we will be ready then.

Laureltree

[Guest TheProudDuck]

Originally posted by Traveler+Dec 6 2004, 10:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Traveler @ Dec 6 2004, 10:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--TheProudDuck@Dec 6 2004, 12:13 PM

Trav -- My understanding of the sense in which the Third Reich was "third" was that it was the third unified German empire.  The first was Charlemagne's, and the second referred to the unification of Germany under Wilhelm I in 1870.  The Roman empire has little to do with any of this, except that Charlemagne viewed himself as a new Roman emperor (notwithstanding that he didn't actually control, well, Rome.)

Charlemagne was a Frank (French) not German. Also Charlemagne divided the Germans and their land with the Franks. The city (Frankfort) is divided to this day between the Franks and Saxon Hausen. The Symbols used by Hitler were of Roman origin for a reason.

The Traveler

Charlemagne wasn't "French," in the modern sense, because when he founded his empire there wasn't a French national identity or French state. The Franks were a Germanic tribe. Charlemagne's empire included present-day France along with most of Germany and Austria. After he died, his empire was divided among his heirs into parts that roughly corresponded with France, western Germany, and Austria. (Austria's name in German, Osterreich, means simply "eastern empire.") France and Austria developed into national states during the late Middle Ages, while Germany was further subdivided and didn't unify until the 1870s.

Anyway, to recap: First Reich = Charlemagne; Second Reich = Wilhelm I and II; Third Reich = Hitler and Doenitz.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say with the supposed connection between Rome and Hitler. The Nazis were anything but orthodox Trinitarians, preferring instead a project of replacing German Christianity with a new system called Gottglaubig ("god-belief") which was to draw on Germanic pagan myths (Wotan and Thor and all that).

[Amillia]

Originally posted by LaurelTree@Dec 7 2004, 12:44 PM

I believe if we are worthy children we will be given that knowledge either just before or at that time.

We have been told by the prophet in many talks that we should prepare, none of us know when that time will come for us to meet our maker. For some it may be before the end and for others, they will meet him at the end......But if meeting him and returning with him is a desire we hold, we must work for it now.......So we will be ready then.

Laureltree

No one knows the day or hour they will die either.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Traveler@Dec 6 2004, 10:30 PM

Although the library was burned by men in robes of priests it is believe they were a legion of the Roman army. The Greeks had little to do with the attack. The Romans attacked by ships (Roman ships) from the sea. Theodosius was the Christian Emperor of Rome that commanded the legion but many deny Theodosius gave the order. Rome controlled the waters and the attack could not have taken place without Theodosius knowing. It is important to note that this event ended a longstanding debate concerning the Trinitarian nature of G-d.

The Traveler

Uh, okay... (although I have no idea what you are responding to here.)

[Cal]

Originally posted by Traveler@Dec 5 2004, 04:34 PM

The Traveler

It wasn't the Essenes that discovered the earth was round, it was the Greeks, and they didn't do it by revelation, they did it with simple geometry and scientific measurement. No doubt the Essenes could have had knowledge of the Greek philosophers works.

As usual you are only half right. The Greeks did not discover the world was round, Phoenicians figured it out at least 1000 years before the Greeks and the Pythagoreans figured it out before the Phoenicians.

You are also wrong in thinking the Essens figured it out. The theory of Essens and the Dead Sea Scrolls just took a hit when it has been discovered that the Copper Scroll was not made up but is accurate. If you understand the historical reference to Essens as defined by Josephus then you would know that the Essens could not have produced the copper scroll. This argument is as old as the descovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls and the claim that the copper scroll was not accurate was what was argued that the DSS was the result of Essens.

The Traveler

You are also wrong in thinking the Essens figured it out.

I don't think I said they figured it out, in the sense that they did the measurements necessary to prove it, only that they COULD have access to the same information the Greeks, and as you point out, others did.

[Cal]

Originally posted by Amillia+Dec 5 2004, 05:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Amillia @ Dec 5 2004, 05:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Traveler@Dec 1 2004, 07:28 AM

I am taking an informal survey.  What is the final sign that you as a Christian are looking for that will convince you that Jesus has returned?  Please indicate what it is that convinces you, a short explanation of why and your Christian affiliation. 

I am aware that many, like doubting Thomas, do not have faith enough except they feel the prints in his side, hands and feet.  For you and the rest of you, if you would please indicate what you are looking forward to.  If you do not know of a sign or have not thought about it or do not think there will be a sign – please indicate your opinion and why.  In general how will you know Jesus (not an imposter as prophesied) has come again to live among mankind? 

The Traveler

I believe Christ has already come when He appeared to Joseph Smith and established his kingdom on earth again. Those who are zion know this already.

No, that can't be if Brigham Young was a prophet. He said that the Blacks would not recieve the priesthood until the millenium. Had Christ already come, then that statement would make no sense.

[Cal]

Originally posted by TheProudDuck+Dec 7 2004, 12:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TheProudDuck @ Dec 7 2004, 12:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Traveler@Dec 6 2004, 10:28 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--TheProudDuck@Dec 6 2004, 12:13 PM

Trav -- My understanding of the sense in which the Third Reich was "third" was that it was the third unified German empire.  The first was Charlemagne's, and the second referred to the unification of Germany under Wilhelm I in 1870.  The Roman empire has little to do with any of this, except that Charlemagne viewed himself as a new Roman emperor (notwithstanding that he didn't actually control, well, Rome.)

Charlemagne was a Frank (French) not German. Also Charlemagne divided the Germans and their land with the Franks. The city (Frankfort) is divided to this day between the Franks and Saxon Hausen. The Symbols used by Hitler were of Roman origin for a reason.

The Traveler

Charlemagne wasn't "French," in the modern sense, because when he founded his empire there wasn't a French national identity or French state. The Franks were a Germanic tribe. Charlemagne's empire included present-day France along with most of Germany and Austria. After he died, his empire was divided among his heirs into parts that roughly corresponded with France, western Germany, and Austria. (Austria's name in German, Osterreich, means simply "eastern empire.") France and Austria developed into national states during the late Middle Ages, while Germany was further subdivided and didn't unify until the 1870s.

Anyway, to recap: First Reich = Charlemagne; Second Reich = Wilhelm I and II; Third Reich = Hitler and Doenitz.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say with the supposed connection between Rome and Hitler. The Nazis were anything but orthodox Trinitarians, preferring instead a project of replacing German Christianity with a new system called Gottglaubig ("god-belief") which was to draw on Germanic pagan myths (Wotan and Thor and all that).

PD--I admire your knowledge of Western History--makes me wish I had majored in that instead of Biochem--nobody wants to hear about that!

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Cal@Dec 11 2004, 06:18 PM

makes me wish I had majored in that instead of Biochem--nobody wants to hear about that!

I do!

[Guest TheProudDuck]

Originally posted by Cal+Dec 11 2004, 06:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cal @ Dec 11 2004, 06:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -TheProudDuck@Dec 7 2004, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by -Traveler@Dec 6 2004, 10:28 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--TheProudDuck@Dec 6 2004, 12:13 PM

Trav -- My understanding of the sense in which the Third Reich was "third" was that it was the third unified German empire.  The first was Charlemagne's, and the second referred to the unification of Germany under Wilhelm I in 1870.  The Roman empire has little to do with any of this, except that Charlemagne viewed himself as a new Roman emperor (notwithstanding that he didn't actually control, well, Rome.)

Charlemagne was a Frank (French) not German. Also Charlemagne divided the Germans and their land with the Franks. The city (Frankfort) is divided to this day between the Franks and Saxon Hausen. The Symbols used by Hitler were of Roman origin for a reason.

The Traveler

Charlemagne wasn't "French," in the modern sense, because when he founded his empire there wasn't a French national identity or French state. The Franks were a Germanic tribe. Charlemagne's empire included present-day France along with most of Germany and Austria. After he died, his empire was divided among his heirs into parts that roughly corresponded with France, western Germany, and Austria. (Austria's name in German, Osterreich, means simply "eastern empire.") France and Austria developed into national states during the late Middle Ages, while Germany was further subdivided and didn't unify until the 1870s.

Anyway, to recap: First Reich = Charlemagne; Second Reich = Wilhelm I and II; Third Reich = Hitler and Doenitz.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say with the supposed connection between Rome and Hitler. The Nazis were anything but orthodox Trinitarians, preferring instead a project of replacing German Christianity with a new system called Gottglaubig ("god-belief") which was to draw on Germanic pagan myths (Wotan and Thor and all that).

PD--I admire your knowledge of Western History--makes me wish I had majored in that instead of Biochem--nobody wants to hear about that!

Well thank you. History has the advantage of being fun.

[EmmaLeigh]

i have a question...

I am sure that my father once talked about some of the sealed books of the Book of Mormon that were not translated by Joseph Smith Jr, but that were supposed to be found and brought forth before Christ returns...

Is that just - um- false? or what???

I'm really interested in reading these posts (well the ones at the start of the thread...) I've always thought that the Life after death slide presentation (i mean old-school slide presentation) that the Community of Christ has and the lil diagram of what will happen either when you die or when Christ returns was very interesting. I'm sure the beliefs are quite different between our two faiths, but I still find it interesting.

Hope you dont mind me jumping in here... :)

[Amillia]

Is that just - um- false? or what???

It isn't false. I think it is found in 2nd Nephi.

Here is what I found in the reference on sealed book;

2 Ne. 26: 17

17 For thus saith the Lord God: They shall awrite• the things which shall be done among them, and they shall be written and bsealed up in a book, and those who have dwindled in cunbelief shall not have them, for they dseek• to destroy the things of God.

2 Ne. 27: 7

7 And behold the book shall be asealed•; and in the book shall be a brevelation• from God, from the beginning of the world to the cending• thereof.

2 Ne. 27: 8

8 Wherefore, because of the things which are asealed• up, the things which are sealed shall not be delivered in the day of the wickedness and abominations of the people. Wherefore the book shall be kept from them.

2 Ne. 27: 10

10 But the words which are asealed• he shall not deliver, neither shall he deliver the book. For the book shall be sealed by the power of God, and the revelation which was sealed shall be kept in the book until the own due time of the Lord, that they may come forth; for behold, they breveal• all things from the foundation of the world unto the end thereof.

2 Ne. 27: 11

11 And the day cometh that the words of the book which were sealed shall be read upon the house tops; and they shall be read by the power of Christ; and all things shall be arevealed• unto the children of men which ever have been among the children of men, and which ever will be even unto the end of the earth.

2 Ne. 27: 15

15 But behold, it shall come to pass that the Lord God shall say unto him to whom he shall deliver the book: Take these words which are not sealed and deliver them to another, that he may show them unto the learned, saying: aRead• this, I pray thee. And the learned shall say: Bring hither the book, and I will read them.

2 Ne. 27: 17

17 And the man shall say: I cannot bring the book, for it is sealed.

2 Ne. 27: 22

22 Wherefore, when thou hast read the words which I have commanded thee, and obtained the awitnesses which I have promised unto thee, then shalt thou seal up the book again, and hide it up unto me, that I may preserve the words which thou hast not read, until I shall see fit in mine own bwisdom to creveal• all things unto the children of men.

[EmmaLeigh]

Thanks!!

Anyone have any thoughts about this aspect of things??

[Jenda]

Emma Leigh, have you heard of Ron Livingston, or GPA as he likes to be referred to now? He has a commune just outside of Lamoni, and he claims to have translated the sealed portion.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Jenda@Dec 14 2004, 01:49 PM

Emma Leigh, have you heard of Ron Livingston, or GPA as he likes to be referred to now? He has a commune just outside of Lamoni, and he claims to have translated the sealed portion.

any links?

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Amillia+Dec 14 2004, 02:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Amillia @ Dec 14 2004, 02:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Dec 14 2004, 01:49 PM

Emma Leigh, have you heard of Ron Livingston, or GPA as he likes to be referred to now?  He has a commune just outside of Lamoni, and he claims to have translated the sealed portion.

any links?

http://www.sealedportion.com/

[Randy Johnson]

Originally posted by Jenda+Dec 14 2004, 04:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jenda @ Dec 14 2004, 04:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Amillia@Dec 14 2004, 02:30 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Dec 14 2004, 01:49 PM

Emma Leigh, have you heard of Ron Livingston, or GPA as he likes to be referred to now?  He has a commune just outside of Lamoni, and he claims to have translated the sealed portion.

any links?

http://www.sealedportion.com/

Dawn,

Question, why would you voluntarily give anyone a link to that site? What purpose does it serve...and what risk did you just expose Emma to? Not good.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Randy Johnson+Dec 14 2004, 04:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Randy Johnson @ Dec 14 2004, 04:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Jenda@Dec 14 2004, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by -Amillia@Dec 14 2004, 02:30 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Dec 14 2004, 01:49 PM

Emma Leigh, have you heard of Ron Livingston, or GPA as he likes to be referred to now?  He has a commune just outside of Lamoni, and he claims to have translated the sealed portion.

any links?

http://www.sealedportion.com/

Dawn,

Question, why would you voluntarily give anyone a link to that site? What purpose does it serve...and what risk did you just expose Emma to? Not good.

I don't understand your objection to that site. You are not RLDS.

I would say that the purpose of sending someone to that site is to inform them of what is going on out there, especially in the area where she lives. Sooner or later it will come to the attention of many in the RLDS church, it already has come to the attention of quite a few. What is wrong with knowing and coming to some understanding about how you feel about that issue?

[EmmaLeigh]

Wow... I have some friends that were part of Livingston's commune a long time ago, but I didnt know that he claimed to have the sealed portion. For th emost part, the people I know dont trust anything he says, especially after some of the things that have come out about the situations in his commune... but thanks, I'll check that site out at some point...

Randy - I'm RLDS... so exposing me to that isnt the same as if someone else went there... PLUS I live in Lamoni :) Though that has no barring on it. I've seen what Livingston has done to people and I'm in no danger of falling into any trap there. I dont want to be walking around like some people from back home that got mixed up with him. And I havent heard a peep about him for a long time anyway...

:)

now that I think of it - i believe some of the people handing out pamphlets at Conference have had them that said that, but I always disregarded them ... hm.....

[Cal]

Originally posted by curvette+Dec 12 2004, 10:16 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Dec 12 2004, 10:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Cal@Dec 11 2004, 06:18 PM

makes me wish I had majored in that instead of Biochem--nobody wants to hear about that!

I do!

Thanks, Curvy! :)

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Jenda+Dec 14 2004, 04:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jenda @ Dec 14 2004, 04:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Amillia@Dec 14 2004, 02:30 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Dec 14 2004, 01:49 PM

Emma Leigh, have you heard of Ron Livingston, or GPA as he likes to be referred to now?  He has a commune just outside of Lamoni, and he claims to have translated the sealed portion.

any links?

http://www.sealedportion.com/

Thanks.

[Cal]

Originally posted by EmmaLeigh@Dec 14 2004, 12:01 PM

Thanks!!

Anyone have any thoughts about this aspect of things??

Yeah, I hope these new bom translations can answer the question of how all the "lamanites" got to be ASIANS.