Family in Crisis

[jay720]

I was extremely disheartened today and looking for some help. How grateful I am that I found LDS.net and this forum.

I am a member of the church and have been for 30 years. I was married in the temple and was married for 28 years until last year when my wife decided that the church, family and I were not what she wanted. She has since began living a life style unrecognizable to her children or myself. We are going to be divorced as she has broken her temple covenants.

Sadly this is not the only hardship my family is facing. I have four wonderful children. Three boys and a girl. They are all in their teens from 14-17 this year.

My wife has left us now for about a year and last month, I received a call that the Bishop wanted to see me, my wife, my oldest Son and my daughter.

My wife and I are not speaking to each other at the moment so I called the Bishop to see if a meeting was absolutely necessary or could the objective be completed in separate meetings. (Our bishop is brand-spanking new and not particularly compassionate). He told me no and that more details could be had by asking my son.

I spoke to my Son who broke down and told me that he and his sister had been experimenting sexually with each other. He had confessed to the Bishop.

The next day I spoke to the Bishop and he informed me that he would be advising the police and children services that this had taken place. He told me that what my son had done was horrific and that if it were his son he would have trouble keeping his hands off him.

Of course I was in shock! I swallowed hard, said a prayer and then called my wife. She came over and we discussed this with all four of us. What we discovered was that yes there was some sexual experimenting going on. Yes, it was mutual and reciprocal and no my daughter was pregnant.

I then learned that unbeknown to be or my wife this Bishop had invited my teenage daughter (15) to his office for a private interview. He grilled her regarding the confession her brother had made and asked her several explicit questions, all without a parent present.

As a family we are devastated, however I honestly believe that the Bishop had discretion whether to call the authorities; when to bring me into the conversation; and when to inform my son that remarks made by him were not confidential any longer.

The Bishop continues to call my children asking for more interviews, however I have put my foot down saying that if there is no confidentiality then they should say nothing.

Don't get me wrong, I want this handled properly, I would have appreciated the opportunity to deal with this as a family and I will say it quite clearly that my children did commit a sin however it should not be construed or misconstrued as a crime. I don't condone it. The both are going to counseling (not at LDS Family Services) and I don't want the Bishop to be gathering further evidence for the police.

I have always been a strong member. I believe in the church but I also believe in the family as it's first institution.

The problem I now have (as if there is just one) is simple. How can I protect my children's legal rights and at the same time not stymie the repentance process. How can I or my children trust the Bishop now? The Bishop has stated several times he expects that the punishment should be "severe" and "significant". He as taken to showing up at my door unannounced and he has asked our friends at church personal questions about us.

I know that as parents we often allow the Bishop to talk to our children in interviews for different reasons, but do I have the right to be in an interview now?

I am in deep pain at what I see as a violation of my children's rights and a very aggressive bishop (who works with children for a living) who as time passes sees newer and newer faults that our family has.

Help

Edited February 1, 2009 by jay720

[Dove]

Whoa, Jay! and not at what you think, Whoa!!!

Go to your stake president and tell him what this bishop is doing right now....that the bishop needs to back off and mind his own business....Why???? Because he has totally overstepped his bounds as bishop!! Okay, so I suppose he did what he was supposed to do and went to the police about this...(I believe, at least in the US, a counselor/religious figure has to report abuse to the police when it's going on). So, he's done his duty.

Your bishop was totally out of line to take your 15 year old daughter and grill her in an interview without your permission!! Especially when it was his intent to report whatever she said to the police, and not to minister to her in the capacity of religious mentor!!

Since your bishop is showing up at your door unnanounced and "peeping" into your windows, asking your friends personal questions about you, and making himself the detective in this matter, maybe a restraining order against him would be appropriate at this time.

The bottom line of what I'm saying is, he's out of place!!! Get an attorney and find out your rights. At the very least, go to the stake president and voice your concerns...and work with the stake president through your childrens' needs for repentance.

IMO, they should be treated with compassion and help, something is happening in their psyche to be causing this between them.....they need help and love right now, not tight-fisted punishments.....

[jay720]

Thank you for your kind words.

I have spoken to our attorney and he says my Son is under no obligation to speak to the police. The detective wanted my daughter and I to come down to discuss this and on advice I retained another lawyer for my daughter who told her to say nothing.

My daughter is humiliated and embarrassed, she wants to go to couselling, she admits that she was willing and she does not want to pursue this at all. Both children were older than 14 when this happened although the Bishop is positive that it happened earlier, which would make it statutory rape in Canada.

How do I encourage the repentance process when the Bishop indicates that if my Son does not come clean to the police that it shows a unrepentant attitude. Does it?

Isn't there a separation of church and state? Must I allow my Son to incriminate himself, to satisfy the church. What a dichotomy. Is it wrong to use the laws of the land to protect a minor from having his whole life ruined because of some stupid mistakes?

[Dove]

Jay,

I'm sorry, I have to leave my house right now and cannot respond to your questions....

I will be back on line later on and will respone then.....please speak to your stake president about this, pray about it, and see what the stake president has to say....

I will write more later.

God Bless

Dove

[Maxel]

Jay, I am so sorry you are going through this.

I agree with Dove- for some reason your Bishop is not handling this properly, and a higher authority than him needs to be called in. Call your stake president immediately! Even if your bishop has good intentions at heart, he is violating your family's privacy.

I don't know if Canada has laws about separation of church and state, but it would make sense, as it seems they used the USA as a political 'road map' when forming the national laws.

Don't let this experience affect your faith in the Church. Sometimes, people called to positions of authority aren't the best people for the job. I have no explanation as to why that is, other than to point to the failings and frailty of man.

The bottom line is that your bishop has invaded your family's privacy and seems on the verge of illegally stalking your children. Something seems definitely not right.

Most of all, stay close to the spirit as you move forward. I am praying for your family, and I hope you're able to get this resolved soon.

[RachelleDrew]

If you lived in the US the bishop in question would have already broken laws in his quest to "help" your kids.

At this point he needs to back off. Go to your stake president as SOON as you can and let him be aware of what is going on. This is nuts.

[Dove]

Hello,

Jay, your children need a safe place they can come clean, be honest, and, of their own free will, feel good about the resulting consequences to their actions. This, to me, is the process of repentance......not the predatory process of the police going after a hardened criminal to prosecute, if they can, to the full extent of the law, without remorse, pity, or understanding the heart of the person who "committed the crime."

I'm so sorry to hear of your daughter's pain, humiliation, and embarrasment. For a person of her age, that is quite a punishment......While she says she was willing, I don't know that she was fully accountable for her actions in this case. I don't know what her background is with your wife (you mentioned in your first post that your wife was living an unrecognizable lifestyle and had broken her temple covenants), what trauma this has caused her, the divorce, etc......Only God knows the extent of traumatic events on our hearts and our vulnerabilities and what we can be held accountable to.....Ideally, our priesthood leadership is intune with the Spirit enough to have guidance in matters like these....the same with your son....

It sounds like this person (bishop) sees your son as the "villain" here who "deflowered" your daughter, took her innocence away, whatever cliche we want to put on it, and basically, wants to make him pay. I don't know what the age difference is between your son and daughter, but, imo, both of them are dealing with traumatized feelings perhaps surrounding their mother's lifestyle choices and the divorce......to say that incest (yes, I'm using that word purposefully Jay, because I believe that while love and compassion are the order of the day for your children, this is much more than a "stupid mistake") is normal for children to engage in, imho, is not correct. I'm so happy you are seeking therapy for your daughter, and I hope the same is being done for your son.

Yes, I do feel there should be a major seperation of church and state at this time, for the reasons I have already mentioned. NO, I do not think your son should be forced to testify against himself in a court of law, nor should anyone in your family be made to testify against him without their consent....I believe this would destroy all of your agency. I believe there is a reason for, as they say in the US, taking the 5th, and not trusting an opposing side there to inflict a punishment without thought for the heart of the person who committed the crime and the ramifications of the punishment on him or her.....

[jadams_4040]

Whoa, Jay! and not at what you think, Whoa!!!

Go to your stake president and tell him what this bishop is doing right now....that the bishop needs to back off and mind his own business....Why???? Because he has totally overstepped his bounds as bishop!! Okay, so I suppose he did what he was supposed to do and went to the police about this...(I believe, at least in the US, a counselor/religious figure has to report abuse to the police when it's going on). So, he's done his duty.

Your bishop was totally out of line to take your 15 year old daughter and grill her in an interview without your permission!! Especially when it was his intent to report whatever she said to the police, and not to minister to her in the capacity of religious mentor!!

Since your bishop is showing up at your door unnanounced and "peeping" into your windows, asking your friends personal questions about you, and making himself the detective in this matter, maybe a restraining order against him would be appropriate at this time.

The bottom line of what I'm saying is, he's out of place!!! Get an attorney and find out your rights. At the very least, go to the stake president and voice your concerns...and work with the stake president through your childrens' needs for repentance.

IMO, they should be treated with compassion and help, something is happening in their psyche to be causing this between them.....they need help and love right now, not tight-fisted punishments.....

Absolutely correct! the bishop is waaayyy out of line.

[Guest ceeboo]

Hi Jay720,

I am not LDS so I will simply offer a few words as your post was so deep.

Your kids need their Dad's love and protection now, perhaps more than ever.

God bless you and I pray the Lord will be close and guide you and your kids in this time.

Ceeboo

[jay720]

Thank you all for your kind words, I am truly grateful. I have even shown them to my children and they are also much relieved that our feelings are not out of line. We, in the church, are indoctrinated to trust the bishop and to follow his counsel. I must say that I have rarely found myself at odds with the local leaders and it is so very uncomfortable.

Apart of me says, just trust in the process and everything will work out, but everything else inside screams to protect my children. Thank you again for your vindicating thoughts

[jolee65]

Im truly sorry for you and what your family is going through, and with that said your Bishop is crossing all kinds of boundarys. Once your son confessed he should have called you in the meeting. Bringing the police into it without counseling you and helping you with a support system for your children was irresponsibles. Even if he didnt know how to go about helping , he has the stake president for that.

[leming6]

I know people have given you good advice. I'm not going to repeat it. I'm just going to tell you that I will pray for your family. Love and support your children and make sure they know that.