Dove

Thank you to everyone who's welcomed me back!

Hi, I used to be on lds.net years ago, but left for awhile. Now I'm back hoping for a positive experience and friendly interactions. Hopefully to find friends. 😊 I'm lds and happy to be so. I know God lives and loves us all. I hope to emulate that in my posts. Thanks

ThirdPersonViewer; I really like all that you said. I just wanted to focus a little on the point you made about "the stupidest comment ever made on this site." Along with that being hurtful for most anyone reading it, I think it's important to realise the intent with which it was said. To me, it bespeaks bad will and a condescending tone at the very worst to a challenging and debative tone at the least. Well said, 3rd Person Viewer!!

There is a hymn I'm thinking of that would explain better than I could what I've been trying to say. For what it's worth, here it is.... Lord, I Would Follow Thee 31243, Hymns, Lord, I Would Follow Thee, no. 220 1. Savior, may I learn to love thee, Walk the path that thou hast shown, Pause to help and lift another, Finding strength beyond my own. Savior, may I learn to love thee— [Chorus] Lord, I would follow thee. 2. Who am I to judge another When I walk imperfectly? In the quiet heart is hidden Sorrow that the eye can't see. Who am I to judge another? 3. I would be my brother's keeper; I would learn the healer's art. To the wounded and the weary I would show a gentle heart. I would be my brother's keeper— 4. Savior, may I love my brother As I know thou lovest me, Find in thee my strength, my beacon, For thy servant I would be. Savior, may I love my brother— As I've already said, I have read a lot of anger and scathing comments towards the OP that I don't think were the most loving or helpful way to respond. Yes, there is a lot he is doing that is blatantly against the church's standing on marijuana....Another scripture comes to mind.... Doctrine and Covenants 121:41-44; "No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned. By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile- Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy. That he may know that thy faithfulness is stronger than the cords of death." Vort, as far as the driving analogy goes- I will try to put it this way. While I feel compassion and empathy for the OP in what he is dealing with (I believe it was depression and anxiety), I wouldn't suggest, support or condone him smoking marijuana and, say, still taking the sacrament or renewing his covenants by attending the Temple. While I don't feel it would be my place to attack him, neither would I say it was okay. I don't believe the OP came here to create so much negativity. Sure, his opening thread may have hit most people wrong. But, I don't think it was his intent to create contention, arguing, or of being belittled. To me, this has nothing to do with the smoking of marijuana at this point. It has more to do with how we treat others who have erred in their ways and are getting lost in forbidden paths. As the scripture says that I just quoted, I just don't want to be esteemed as an enemy to anyone who is reaching out by posting on LDS net.

Dravin; I really don't get the meaning/jist of what you are trying to say to me. Would you care to explain it further?

I don't believe being "obedient" is always black and white. I do believe their is a lot of grey areas. Mainly when we think we "know" what obedience is and then use that human "wisdom" to judge others for not measuring up to our standards. For example, while many of us can drive and know all of the laws to drive correctly, there are many of us who would not even be allowed to drive because of impairments that keep them from driving. Like blindness, deafness, etc. Yet, we don't judge that person for not being able to drive. I just don't think we should inflict our perspectives/judgements on someone else when we haven't walked a mile in their moccasins.

ApplePansy; I in no way would want to negate the pain you've gone through. I acknowledge and respect how you've dealt with it. Neither do I want to negate the pain of others and their struggles in dealing with it. Not all of us have the faith/belief/hope/trust in God enough yet to follow Him through the harrowing experiences life can give us. I am one of those that struggle with my faith when I get slapped silly by the opposition in life. So, it amazes me when people who are obviously in pain and trying to cope with it, as wrong as how they are may be, are met with further harshness from those of us who claim to be the true followers of Jesus Christ. There is a scripture in the Doctrine and Covenants that tells us how to "deal" with those who do not have enough faith; "And whosoever among you are sick, and have not faith to be healed, but believe, shall be nourished with all tenderness, with herbs and mild food, and that not by the hand of an enemy." I struggle with how harsh people have been, from the words to the tone/anger of the responses. I wrote those comments because the responses to Bigernflo were getting more and more inflammatory as this thread went on. While Bigernflo may be rationalising his position and allowing himself to be mislead into thinking pot smoking is okay, that doesn't give me permission to treat him with rudeness or disrespect. No worries, though, I don't think Bigernflo has been here for awhile nor will be returning any time soon...So much for disagreeing with him in love, respect and kindness... To be clear, I do support and believe in the high standards of our church. All of them. I just don't feel I have the right to judge others when I perceive they are not keeping the commandments as well as me or as well as I think they should. I believe that is not my place. It is mine to focus on the beam in my eye rather than on someone elses' mote....I don't believe unleashing my anger towards another is ever okay or right. Dove

Thank you, Selek, for your respectful response. I'm not saying it's wrong to disagree with him, just pointing out "how" we disagree is important..... I believe kindness and respect is always better than another way......I believe it is becoming of a follower of Christ to not put another person down for their beliefs. I think of Doctrine and Covenants 50:30-33, which teaches us how to deal with an evil spirit; "Wherefore, it shall come to pass, that if you behold a spirit manifested that you cannot understand, and you receive not that spirit, ye shall ask of the Father in the name of Jesus; and if He give not unto you that spirit, then you may know that it is not of God. And it shall be given unto you power over that spirit; and you shall proclaim against that spirit with a loud voice that it is not of God- Not with railing accusation, that ye be not overcome, neither with boasting, nor rejoicing, lest you be seized therewith." I think these verses are important to teaching us how to deal with others who we disagree with. Not rudely; but, firmly..... Dove

PS, If you husband is concerned that other people think he is a "kook," this could be a strong indicator that he himself is sensing that something is not right in his mind (the mental illness) and his own prejudice towards the mentally ill might be keeping him from feeling safe in dealing with this. Please, seek professional help as to what to do.....

Hello, Sunshine40; To give you a little background about myself; I have been diagnosed with BPD. I have a couple of books on this that might help you. They are "I hate you, don't leave me" and "Walking on eggshells." They both give insight into how to relate to someone who has BPD. Sorry, I don't remember the names of the authors. Might I suggest not going to your bishop and stake president about this? First, to respect your husbands' privacy/confidentiality. Secondly, I believe a trained professional would be much more helpful for you in learning how to cope with your husbands' mental illness. While I have been diagnosed with the BPD, I would never feel okay going into a rage with my husband. If you feel abused by your husband, no matter what his diagnosis, I believe that is not okay. This is not to put your husband down. I don't fully know what your situation is. But it seems to me that he is raging at you. In my lay opinion, that is just not okay....Boundaries need to be set as to how he treats you..... I know you are worried about your husbands' feelings/reactions if you confront him about your realisation. Perhaps fasting and prayer will help in knowing how to talk to him about this.... Lastly, about confiding in your priesthood leadership. I have found that what I say to one leader (i..e R.S. President etc) inevitably gets told to other leaders, probably in the leadership meeting. I think at times it's very wise to use discretion as to what you tell someone about someone else. Just something to think about. Best of wishes in you journey Dove

Okay, okay; Most everyone who has posted on this thread has made it very clear that they don't support bigernflos' marijuana smoking..... But, can we stop with the name calling? (doper and "stupidest comment made.....")? I really appreciate LMM"s comments. It's very clear that he doesn't support the smoking of pot. But, he has been respectful in what he's had to say. And, while I do not support the smoking of marijuana (I don't do it, either) I have a person in my life, whom I love dearly, that does it very often himself. This is to self medicate for pain. I think it's really easy to be rude to bigernflo about this. Most of us don't agree with him. Yet, I have seen very little compassion expressed for what he's trying to deal with. More so ridicule for the arguments he has expressed in favour of legalising it. Seriously, are you posting this thinking you're really going to help him, or for some other reason? Just sayin' Dove

Cairopax; Do you have children? If not, I might suggest that you Run!! I say this because I know that "loving" someone isn't a feeling; it's a choice. A choice to serve, be kind and Christlike to the object of one's love. Be careful. If she doesn't love you and has married you, perhaps this says something about her character. Don't let her use you in the sense of taking what she can from you loving her but remaining uncommitted by saying she doesn't love you. That's really not fair. There is a difference between being "in love" (more like infatuation, to me) and the endurance of "loving" someone. The first is more based in lust (IMO) and the second in the pure love of Christ.... You have said that you love her dearly. I would step way back and assess the whole situation. I don't know what in the world she was trying to achieve by telling you she didn't love you, yet still wanted to work on the marriage. That just seems so destructive. If she really wanted the marriage to work, why lay her lack of "love" at your doorstep to feel bad about? Her not loving you is her problem. It's your problem to if she's just using you for her comfort. I may be wrong. Maybe she's too young to realise that loving you is her choice; not an inborn thing. I don't know..... This is just my .02 cents worth. Dove

Wow, hearing about your husbands' new atheism hurts. My brother has also pretty much denounced his belief in God. I love him dearly and grieve that he's missing out on what is to me, the essence of life. There are so many things in my life that prove to me there is a God. Many things that I know in my heart are real; but, that cannot be "proven" in a secular way. Like, all the priesthood blessings that have answered my private, personal prayers (the priesthood holder giving the blessing had no idea what I had prayed) in the exact words I had phrased the question in my prayer. Or, the many times I've been lead directly to things I've lost after I've prayed to find them. Or the power of the Book of Mormon as I read it daily. Or, as a missionary, being lead to a particular house where we shared the gospel with a sister who accepted it and was baptised. I know God lives and loves me. I believe there is a purpose to us not being able to "scientifically" prove His existence. This is so we will develop faith. However, I believe that the universe is so orderly that to think it all fell together by the "big bang theory," without an intelligent being behind it, is rather ludicrous to me. I am reminded of this saying. There are no atheists in a fox hole. The Best Dove

PS. Lots of loves and hugs back atchya! :-)

Hello, Tough Grits; Yes, I'll be happy to answer your question here. I was thinking about pm'ing you with the answer. But, I realise I have already shared a great deal of what my answer entails here on this site. So, here goes. :) There is no particular order of what I'm going to list as to what is more of a contributor than not. One of the things that leave me "down trodden" and "miserable" the majority of the time is childhood abuse; sexual, verbal and physical. Though I witnessed more of the physical abuse being done to my siblings, as I was the last of six children. My Mom was not the guilty party in the abuse. I have traced a history of mental illness through my paternal grandmothers' line. I have traced abuse through my maternal grandfathers' line two generations back. I am currently on psychiatric disability with several diagnosis, one being severe depression. I have been diagnosed with poly-cystic ovary disease, or syndrome, as it is now called. When I cycle each month, my emotions go very much out of wack. Often times during this cycling, I am so depressed that I get suicidal. Seldom a month goes by that I don't struggle with this. I have diabetes. Because of my gynecological problems, my blood sugars also wildly fluctuate during my cycling, leaving me quite ill along with the depression. These fluctuations can drag out for weeks. I have a really hard time "getting along" with others. I think because of the abuse I suffered as a child. Still, it's very painful to me to face rejection over and over again from my peers. So many times I have been unable to get along with people at church. I have long struggled with this. This has lead me to begin smoking again and to marry the man who loved me as much as my dear, beloved, non-member husband does. I've struggled with not marrying in the Temple. Still, I believe I was spiritually directed to my husband. I find solace in that. So, for me life is very painful and difficult for the most part. Yet, I know God does live and does love me, even though I cannot comprehend the depth of His love for me. Some things I have learned from my trials are that I cannot take anything for granted. I can never presume my standing before God. In fact, I credit Him/the Holy Spirit with saving me from committing suicide in years past. Every time I would come to that point of seriously planning it, the Spirit would lovingly/gently/powerfully stop me. It's hard to describe. I grieve over a friend I lost to suicide. I don't know why I was stopped and she went through with it....I hope some day I will understand. Because of my health and psychiatric problems, I have come to understand, much more deeply, the fragility of life. I attribute my still being alive to God. Often times I feel I can barely keep my head above water. I think of a scripture as I write this. It is Mosiah 2:21; "I say unto you that if ye should serve Him who has created you from the very beginning, and is preserving you from day to day, by lending you breath, that ye may live and move and do according to your own will, and even supporting you from one moment to another-I say, if ye should serve Him with all you whole souls yet ye would be unprofitable servants." I really get this scripture. I believe the core of the gospel is the pure love of Christ. This is why I believe that home teaching and visiting teaching is soo important. It encapsulates the essence of the gospel if done correctly. Which is; loving your neighbour as yourself. I hope I didn't lay too much at your door. I'm not ashamed of what I've related. But, I do understand that what I've written can easily be too much for some to read. I'm really sorry if I have caused anyone unease or discomfort by what I've written. Dove

Hello, Tough Grits; I'm sorry if it seemed I was inferring that you felt "down-trodden" or "miserable." That was not my intent. However, I can't lie that I often do feel "down-trodden" and "miserable." These are things I struggle with.... Anyway, I may not be the best one to answer your question....I feel I've tried and haven't been able to very well. Sorry again. Best of wishes in coming to a deeper understanding about this Dove

Hello, Classy Lady; I believe I can understand your disappointment. I think maybe you feel that your husbands' heart was not in this; hence, the little effort you perceive he made. Maybe you feel it's a reflection of how he values you..... Whatever you are feeling, I would suggest instead of the temptation to take it out on your husband (probably not Christ-like and something you wouldn't do) to instead love yourself and, through the Spirit, work out what's bothering you about this. It's hard. I've had to learn to release all expectations of others. I've realised placing these expectations of others is quite unfair to them. I mean this as far as interpersonal relationships go.... So sorry this Valentine's Day was disappointing....I relate to that and having some hard days with my husband, who I love, and who loves me, dearly.. Dove

Hello, Tough Grits..... I'm sorry. I feel so frustrated right now. I had written a long response to your question. And somehow I erased all of it....But, I'll start again. :-) You know, having what I wrote before all erased has caused me to reflect that perhaps I should take a different direction in answering you. I don't know. But, I'm thinking on this..... Tough Grits, I do agree with you that we should never presume we have "made it." A great deal while here on earth. I believe that leads to complacency. However, you speak of- "Here I am worried about all my flaws, all my shortcomings, and the very long way I have to go before I could dare "dream of my mansions above"....... I think that you can experience the sweet peace of the Spirit confirming to you that your sins are forgiven. That your efforts are pleasing to God and that He's pleased with you. This is not to presume that you are certain to be exalted. But, it is the comfort that you are in God's hands and He has your eternal welfare at heart. Perhaps to trust in Him that He will not lead you astray; but by following Him you will be given your hearts' desires. Someone taught me long ago that all of this life is a "want to." That every experience we have, good ot bad, is there to teach us.......That even the opposition of life gives us an opportunity to choose what it is we really want. That truly living the commandments is not about the guilt trip (shoulda, coulda, woulda), shame or having to. What it is about is wanting it......and the absolute gratitude to God/the Saviour for providing us a way to get it....... I also like the idea that I'm living a great deal of my eternity in this moment. Meaning, my heaven or hell is what I'm experiencing right now. Yet, I'm subject to intense bouts of depression and emotional pain. So, I'm not sure how much that would support this. I think you are doing great. There are so many scriptures that tell us not to "exalt" ourselves; but, rather to "abase" ourselves in relation to God.... I think we often misinterpret the scripture "after all we can do." Here are some more scriptural references that might clear that up a little more. I'll list them out for you to peruse at your leisure.... Mosiah 2-5 Ether 12:27 Jacob 4:1-11 Can someone help me find the scripture in the New Testament that gives the parable of the two men praying, one talking about how righteous he is, the other pleading for forgiveness? There are many others. I strongly feel you are on the right track....Even perhaps too hard on yourself. Might I suggest going to God in prayer concerning your standing before Him? Asking for the sweet reassurance of the Spirit that you are "okay?" I'm pretty tired right now. But, I'll try to find more scriptures to pass along to you that will support what you are feeling. The Best Dove

Hello, Traveler; I think that whether or not I like a "genius" or very smart person has nothing to do with his/her intelligence, as much as it has to do with how that person handles their intelligence. Meaning, are they humble or prideful about it? Do they use their "intelligence" to build me up or tear me down when I'm in their presence? Do they think they're better than me, simply because they can out-think me? One of my best friends in High School was a genius and a member of MENSA. Yet, he never made me feel less than him for my average intelligence...... I think humility is so important for all of us....I think of Abraham 3:19; "And the Lord said unto me; These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they are; I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent than they all." If I had a pet peeve concerning smart people, or those who feel they are, it is when they begin to negate the absolute intelligence of God. When they begin to attribute to Him a lack of "omniscience" or, how do I say it? All-knowing intelligence. I think it's important for all of us to remain humble (very much myself included) and to remember who we are in relationship to God; which is, broken, fallible, finite, mortal and as nothing..... Dove

Tough Grits; I just read your OP. Thank you so much for bringing this topic up. I think it's an important one..... To me, being "Christian" is becoming a disciple of Jesus Christ. This means through grace, and all that I can do, to emulate the "pure love of Christ" in my life...both for myself and all those around me. It is a process of sanctification and purification. I am learning not to "rely on the arm of flesh" at all in my testimony of Jesus Christ and His restored gospel.....To "pray for those who hate" me and "despitefully use me." I just had an experience with this with a person who kept attacking me. Now, i certainly was not perfect in responding. However, even though I apologised myself blue, it didn't stop her unkindness towards me. She places a great deal of value now in being "Christian," yet she didn't stop attacking until I stopped responding and ignored her......However, I've learned so much from this experience. That responding in kind is very wrong. How important it is to "turn the other cheek." To me, that means allowing the pain of my "friend" turning on me to wash over me, rather than getting angry and defensive in response. I realised that her anger really wasn't about me and wasn't my war to participate in. My "war" was to pray to forgive her and to apologise for the wrong I had done. I felt it was very important to pray for her in the process of forgiving her...... Some of my favourite passages of scripture talks about the Saviour suffering while here on this earth. It explains to me things that might be expected of me to be a true follower of Jesus Christ..... "For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, and as a root out of dry ground: He hath no form nor comeliness: and when we shall see Him there is not beauty that we should desire Him. He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and we hid as it were our faces from Him; He was despised and we esteemed Him not. Surely He has borne our grief and carried our sorrows; yet we did esteem Him stricken, smitten of God and afflicted. But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was upon Him, and with His stripes we are healed. All we, like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to His own way; and the Lord hath laid on Him the iniquities of us all." I really like these scriptures. Oftentimes for me, the journey home is a lonely road.....Thus my need to rely more fully on God, the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ.....To sacrifice the "good" (carnal desires) for the infinitely better, truly worshipping Jesus Christ..... I might suggest not worrying about the "fair weather" Christians in life.......There are many. Truly following the Saviour will try you to the very core. I believe that I will never succeed in this process of being tried until I fully live Mosiah 3:19; "For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord; and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father." I'm sorrowing now for how much I've relied on the arm of flesh by allowing the wrongs of others overly influence me and derail me from my path to God. It is soo important to focus on the "beam" in my eye and to forget the "mote" in their eyes....As my brother counselled me awhile ago. I need to focus on keeping my side of the street clean rather than on others' side of the street.... Best of Luck Dove

Andennex and Finrock; Thanks so much for the kind words and reassurance. I have grieved over this for many years. No worries, though, as I grieve a lot generally in my life. I believe because of childhood abuse by my dad and a disposition towards depression.... You know, it's interesting. About a week before I met my husband for the second time, I had been praying to find a spouse....It was very directed how we came together. My husband had resigned himself to not being married due to not being with/married to me. There was a day where everything just came together and my brother, playing matchmaker, scheduled a date for us. Beau and I had known each other years before. He was my first....At that time he didn't feel right about us getting married and I was trying to repent. So, we broke up. Then, all these years later, the Lord orchestrated us meeting together again.......So, I need to forgive myself for following the Spirit. My husband loves me soo much. I believe the Lord knew I really needed that...... I have often felt the promptings of the Spirit guiding me to go back to the temple. I have long been inactive. I still battle smoking. I really want to go. Thanks again. I feel better relating this story. I think what I do to become worthy will play greatly into whether or not my husband and I will be sealed eternally. Your prayers would be much appreciated. Dove

Thanks for the kind response, Andennex; There are some verses in the Doctrine and Covenants that leave me feeling that I've lost my exaltation. They are Doctrine and Covenants 132:15-17; "Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world: therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world. Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage: but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight and glory. For these angels did not abide my law: therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity: and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever." This is all pretty damning, to me.....I don't know. If you know of any verse of scripture or doctrine that makes a second chance available, I would be interested. The only thing I can think of is that hopefully, through the atonement of our Saviour, I can "repent" by being faithful and true to my husband, and perhaps it will be taken care of at some time.....But, I don't know. Thanks Dove

I like what you said for the most part......except saying that divorcing someone because they're not going to convert is "one of the stupidest reasons for divorce...." How do you know? Are you married to a nonmember? Have you ever struggled with remorse over choosing something other than a temple marriage? While I wouldn't divorce my husband over him not converting, I know the struggle of feeling that I have lost my exaltation because of not being sealed in the temple....The Doctrine and Covenants is very explicit about this. And while I won't do it, even though it's been tempting at times, I know others who have divorced because of this. It's a sinking feeling to know I've forfeited the eternal blessings of exaltation because I chose to marry someone who loves me so well~ It's painful and difficult. There are no easy answers when there are religious differences in a marriage. So please don't assume we're stupid idiots for this crossing our minds when we're wrestling with the ramifications of choosing to not marry in the temple. They are quite serious, eternal ramifications.... Dove

Hello, JB789; I'm sorry not to write this sooner. Are there any books you could suggest I read about this line of thinking? I believe you tied it to Buddhism? I'm really interested in learning all that I can to remain at peace in difficult circumstances. Thanks Dove

Hello, I too am married to a non member. I've learned key principals of the gospel while struggling with not having a temple marriage. First and foremost, I have learned to respect his agency to not want to have much to do with my religion. I believe he has read anti-mormon material and chooses to believe it. But, it's not mine to tell him he is wrong or to disregard, to any degree, his agency. This means no cajoling or forcing him to accept my testimony or beliefs. He goes to church with me sometimes; but, he does it to support me, not because he believes it. Anyway, because I chose to marry outside of the temple, while I mourn this, I know we are counselled not to get divorced. So, my goal is to never punish my husband for what I chose to do. To work on loving him with the pure love of Christ and to do my part in our marriage. Which means giving my all to making it a loving and kind relationship..... I hope this helps. Dove