Do I understand the story of the making of the BoM correctly?

[tubaloth]

and so began using his seer's stone for much of the translation of the BoM

There is just no support for this. I don't see why people jump on this. MUCH of the translation?

[Saguaro]

For those of you who doubt that Joseph Smith used a seer stone to translate the Book of Mormon check out this article on LDS.org, Russell M Nelson believes it.

LDS.org - Ensign Article - A Treasured Testament

“Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English. Brother Joseph would read off the English to Oliver Cowdery, who was his principal scribe, and when it was written down and repeated to Brother Joseph to see if it was correct, then it would disappear, and another character with the interpretation would appear. Thus the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, and not by any power of man.” (David Whitmer, An Address to All Believers in Christ, Richmond, Mo.: n.p., 1887, p. 12.)

[tubaloth]

I probably should start a new thread for this. (I.E. the Seer stone is not the source of the Book of Mormon)

The problem is all of these is assuming David Whitmer is the source for translating. Which couldn't be farther from the truth.

Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery would be far more of a source. (and they both explain clearly that it was done through the U & T). I still don't know why people accept Whitmers explaination better then Joseph Smith's or Oilver Cowdery's?

Yes there was a seer stone. But for what purpose we don't know? (I specutlated in other threads)

There are to many holes in David Whitmers account for us to even remotly accept them as the source for this.

[Snow]

There is just no support for this. I don't see why people jump on this. MUCH of the translation?

You're demonstrably wrong.

For the seer stones use in the BOM translation see Joseph Smith and the Beginnings of Mormonism, Richard L. Busham,97, 167, 221n, 238n.

See also By the Gift and Power of God: The Method of Translation of the Book of Mormon, Saints Herald, p.15

There is also material available in By the Hand of Mormon - Terryl Givens but I've lent out my copy.

Primary sources include David Whitmer and Emma Smith who specifically says that JS used the seer stone, not the U & T for the whole of the BoM except the 166 pages lost by Martin Harris.

[Book_of_Mormon_Warrior]

you're demonstrably wrong.

For the seer stones use in the bom translation see joseph smith and the beginnings of mormonism, richard l. Busham,97, 167, 221n, 238n.

See also by the gift and power of god: The method of translation of the book of mormon, saints herald, p.15

there is also material available in by the hand of mormon - terryl givens but i've lent out my copy.

Primary sources include david whitmer and emma smith who specifically says that js used the seer stone, not the u & t for the whole of the bom except the 166 pages lost by martin harris.

116

[Snow]

116

Sure - but who has the other 50? Makes you wonder.

[tubaloth]

Primary sources include David Whitmer and Emma Smith who specifically says that JS used the seer stone, not the U & T for the whole of the BoM except the 166 pages lost by Martin Harris.

Thats the point. Why are these better sources then Joesph Smith and Oliver Cowdery? Joseph Smith always said it was done through the U & T. Oliver Cowdery said the same thing.

There are holes in David Whitmer's account that just don't agree with all we know, but yet we still want to quote him all we can. Emma might have some points, but I could still find problems with her account.

[Snow]

Thats the point. Why are these better sources then Joesph Smith and Oliver Cowdery? Joseph Smith always said it was done through the U & T. Oliver Cowdery said the same thing.

There are holes in David Whitmer's account that just don't agree with all we know, but yet we still want to quote him all we can. Emma might have some points, but I could still find problems with her account.

This is common knowledge now among LDS scholars and history buffs. It's even made it's way to talks given by the Twelve. Joseph Smith doesn't give any detailed account of the translation and on at least one occasion OC mis-described the seer stone as the U & T - being at a time when JS didn't even have the U & T because it had been returned to the Angel.

You can believe what you want but you are out of step with the scholars and historians.

I wonder why you think your opinion is superior to, say Givens, or Bushman or eyewitnesses like Emma Smith or Martin Harris?

I also wonder if you think you have any credibility on the topic since, as we've just seen, your claim that there was "no support" for it trues out to be false.

Edited February 24, 2009 by Snow

[Justice]

You're demonstrably wrong.

For the seer stones use in the BOM translation see Joseph Smith and the Beginnings of Mormonism, Richard L. Busham,97, 167, 221n, 238n.

See also By the Gift and Power of God: The Method of Translation of the Book of Mormon, Saints Herald, p.15

There is also material available in By the Hand of Mormon - Terryl Givens but I've lent out my copy.

Primary sources include David Whitmer and Emma Smith who specifically says that JS used the seer stone, not the U & T for the whole of the BoM except the 166 pages lost by Martin Harris.

I recently read one called "Plates of Gold" by Matthew B. Brown.

This book quotes the journals of the people who were there and they all said that he only used the U&T at the beginning of the work, and that most of the time he used a seer stone placed in a hat. It offers a description of how he did this and why. I'd suggest anyone look into this who is curious.

Edited February 24, 2009 by Justice

[rameumptom]

For Joseph, the U&T and the seer stone were the same thing. D&C 130 explains that all celestial beings will be given a white stone, which will be their personal U&T. For Joseph, there was no difference, except in ease of use.