a-train Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 YouTube - What if...-a-train Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyCallMeMom Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 well IMO these wars based on religious philosophy began thousands of years before the establishment of the US.. So, no, I do not think we "provoked it" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxel Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 What if the makers of this video didn't add heavy music in the background and obfuscate the central message of the video? That being said, I think the video was good. I'm not a politically minded person, but I do agree with George Washington's original stance of political isolationism (maybe that's not the best term; but I think it's what he used) and disagree with America's actions of being the 'big brother' to the world. I disagree with the idea that all hatred against the U.S. is based on our own provocation of their anger- but I don't disagree with the idea that some (or even much) of said hatred is because of initial provocation. There are people in power in this world that are seeking to overthrow righteousness. Despite its compromised condition, America still stands as a bastion of true liberty in the world today- both in ideology and in practice. Interesting video.. Question: who is that speaking? I can't find the answer anywhere... Probably a result of my techno-illiteracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-train Posted March 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Congressman Ron Paul asked these questions to the Congress.YouTube - RON PAUL: WHAT IF... The American People Learn Truth!Do we not think the fact that the United States murdered Persians and overthrew democracy in Iran in 1953 to install the Shah has anything to do with their hatred toward us? Do we not think that the U.S. support for Saddam's invasion of Iran and the gassing of hundereds of thousands of Iranians in a 13 year war has anything to do with it? I wonder how many Iranians still remember that the U.S. Navy shot down an Iranian passenger plane flying over Iranian airspace with 290 passengers on board.The generations of distorting democratic processes, of bribes, of bombs, of war, of bloodshed, have nothing to do with it? It is simply religious?The truth is, most middle easterners don't hate us at all. They realize it is not us that is pursuing this foreign policy, but a government which we have lost control of.The saying: "Oh this is all religious strife hundreds of years old" is a complete cop out and a refusal to take in the facts. Our actions there are not based on religion. The U.S. does not bomb the middle east because we are in a religious war. If we do, if our policy is a religious policy, then it is even worse!Saddam did not invade Iran because of their religion. We did not support him because of his religion. The Afghans did not repel the Soviet invasion because of the religion of the Soviets. We did not support the Afghans because of their religion. Saddam did not invade Kuwait because of the Kuwaiti religion, we did not repel that invasion because of the religion of Saddam. President Clinton did not order the bombing of Iraq because of the religion of Iraq. He did not call for the removal of Saddam because of his religion.Perhaps Hitler could have called the Germans who thought it a bad policy to invade Poland "isolationists". Perhaps the Japanese who thought it a bad policy to bomb Pearl Harbor could have been called "isolationists". Is it really "isolationist" to believe that we should not START wars? That we should not be the first to strike?America will sooner or later realize that our biggest problem is our foreign policy. We can put that fact in the bank. The only question remaining is how many lives will be lost, how many Americans will live in poverty, how utterly terrible the situation will get before we do so. I personally think we will figure this out a lot sooner than later.-a-train Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aranyborju Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I disagree with your last statement a-train. I don't think that we as a collective society will ever figure this out...although I applaud your optimism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxel Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Congressman Ron Paul asked these questions to the Congress.YouTube - RON PAUL: WHAT IF... The American People Learn Truth! I always like Ron Paul. Thanks for the link.Do we not think the fact that the United States murdered Persians and overthrew democracy in Iran in 1953 to install the Shah has anything to do with their hatred toward us? Do we not think that the U.S. support for Saddam's invasion of Iran and the gassing of hundereds of thousands of Iranians in a 13 year war has anything to do with it? I wonder how many Iranians still remember that the U.S. Navy shot down an Iranian passenger plane flying over Iranian airspace with 290 passengers on board. I didn't know any of that information (except for the U.S. supporting Saddam). That's... not good.The generations of distorting democratic processes, of bribes, of bombs, of war, of bloodshed, have nothing to do with it? It is simply religious?The truth is, most middle easterners don't hate us at all. They realize it is not us that is pursuing this foreign policy, but a government which we have lost control of. I see America as a sick child lashing out... The fever will break- soon. When it does...Perhaps Hitler could have called the Germans who thought it a bad policy to invade Poland "isolationists". Perhaps the Japanese who thought it a bad policy to bomb Pearl Harbor could have been called "isolationists". Is it really "isolationist" to believe that we should not START wars? That we should not be the first to strike? Um... I agree? Your grasp on politics and history far exceeds my own, so I really don't understand where you're going with this. Speaking from my largely unlearned perspective, I think it's a good idea not to start wars. Yeah, I'll go with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janice Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I had an English teacher say to me once, "'What If' is a question for Philosophers and Fools." Most politicians are not philosophers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-train Posted March 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 I had an English teacher say to me once, "'What If' is a question for Philosophers and Fools."Most politicians are not philosophers.And neither are most english teachers.-a-train Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 There are worse things than war and they all come from losing one. (Quote by Winston Churchill)The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Godless Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Do we not think the fact that the United States murdered Persians and overthrew democracy in Iran in 1953 to install the Shah has anything to do with their hatred toward us? Do we not think that the U.S. support for Saddam's invasion of Iran and the gassing of hundereds of thousands of Iranians in a 13 year war has anything to do with it? I wonder how many Iranians still remember that the U.S. Navy shot down an Iranian passenger plane flying over Iranian airspace with 290 passengers on board.Couldn't have said it better myself.The truth is, most middle easterners don't hate us at all. They realize it is not us that is pursuing this foreign policy, but a government which we have lost control of.Very, very true. I have had the unique opportunity of engaging in conversation with local natives from countries all over the Middle East. From Iraq, to Qatar, to Egypt, the general consensus is that Americans are cool, it's just our government that they hate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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