Why would God want Adam and Eve to disobey Him?

[Faded]

Hi everyone. I am just curious. But why would God want Adam and Eve to disobey Him just so that way they could have free agency? It makes no sense to me why God would want His children to disobey Him. Please help!

One of the more interesting questions is this. Can God create evil?

The answer is NO. The world he created was a paradise and it was perfect. It was up to Adam and Eve to bring a lesser world upon themselves by direct disobedience to God. The choice was theirs.

But it was crucial that this choice be made. What good is a mortal life where everything is perfect? It would teach us nothing. We would gain nothing. By the Earth becoming a lost and fallen world, we gain a mortal life that is far more instructive.

This is apparently the way it has always been done, and the way it will always be done in the future.

[JohnnyRudick]

One of the more interesting questions is this. Can God create evil?

The answer is NO. The world he created was a paradise and it was perfect. It was up to Adam and Eve to bring a lesser world upon themselves by direct disobedience to God. The choice was theirs.

But it was crucial that this choice be made. What good is a mortal life where everything is perfect? It would teach us nothing. We would gain nothing. By the Earth becoming a lost and fallen world, we gain a mortal life that is far more instructive.

This is apparently the way it has always been done, and the way it will always be done in the future.

Isaiah 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and

from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and

there is none else.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make

peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Isaiah 45:8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the

skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them

bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together;

I the LORD have created it.

Bro. Rudick

[Bagnon]

This is a reply to an old post, but since we just had a lesson in church today about the Fall, and the general feeling in the church is that there are conflicting commandments (multiply vs. don't partake) I wanted to share my thoughts to shed some light on the Fall (my favorite topic).

The best way to know something is true, is to try and teach it with the spirit. If the spirit confirms a truth, then hold onto that confirmation.

Let us begin:

1. The purpose of life is to be put to the test (Abr 3:25) If we pass the tests we progress spiritually and become more righteous and more like God.

2. In order to be tested we have to be free to choose (agency) and have choices presented to us: good vs. evil. (This is why Satan's plan could not have worked for our spiritual progression)

3. Another part of our progression involves experiencing and overcoming opposition i.e. learning.

CREATION

4. Because God is perfect, he creates worlds in a perfect paradisaical state. Living in a paradise does not offer the full range of experiences of opposition needed to prove one's obedience or learn. (How many inventions do you know that came from Hawaii or other paradises?)

5. The role of Adam was to introduce the condition of mortality. He was placed at the head of creation so when he fell the whole earth would fall with him.

FALL

6. In the Garden Adam was commanded to multiply and not to partake of the fruit. However, the opposition they experienced was between the tree of life, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. This is explicitly taught in 2 Nephi 2:15. The choice they had was live forever in the Garden of Eden in an innocent, child-like state and partake of the Tree of Life, or to leave the Garden and learn good and evil. (Once they made their choice, Cherubim and a flaming sword prevented them from making the other choice).

7. Because of 1 Nephi 3:7, we know that because Adam and Eve were commanded to multiply (as part of their marriage), they possessed the ability to do so, and that God would have provided a way. However because they were innocent and lacked the knowledge of how to accomplish this, they did not have any children before they made the choice to partake of the forbidden fruit. It is my belief that every scripture that talks about the fall making it possible for them to multiply is really talking about how Adam would have been left alone in the Garden if he did not stay with eve. Where we get into trouble is when we start asking, "What if?". If they never partook of the fruit would they have eventually figured it out? Perhaps. Perhaps that was the further light and knowledge. What if the fruit really did bring about the needed change to have children and what if they never partook? Then we would have gone to another planet that had the right conditions (see D&C 76:24 and Moses 1:38). It doesn't matter because we know how the events transpired and if they couldn't have children, God would not have held them accountable. Also remember that Adam and Even did not make any covenants to obey until after the Fall!

8. Why did God command them to multiply if they couldn't?

* It is part of the marriage ceremony to legitimize procreation (God could not have married them once they left the Garden)

* God knew that Adam would need this commandment to stick with Eve.

(Also remember that God does not hold people accountable to commandments they cannot obey)

9. If it was good to eat of the forbidden fruit, why did God forbid it?

* So that there would be a consequence if they chose to eat it

* So that Satan (not knowing the mind of God, Moses 4:6) would tempt them to eat it, and give them opposition.

So there was no contradiction until only after Eve had partaken and Adam had to choose to stay with her.

10 Every bad consequence of the Fall is freely corrected by the Atonement. (If they yield to temptation we will provide a savior!)

* Physical death - everyone gets to be resurrected (good or evil)

* Spiritual death - everyone gets to return to God (good or evil) to be judged according to their works, desires, etc.

* Paradise Lost? - AOF 10: "We believe...that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory". (In the Millennium)

* We get to keep everything we learn, "D&C 130:19, "And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come."

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

Hi everyone. I am just curious. But why would God want Adam and Eve to disobey Him just so that way they could have free agency? It makes no sense to me why God would want His children to disobey Him. Please help!

I do not recall where I read this story, but it was a recent reading from Church related material. This story is actually one about Moses and is told in Muslim circles.

Moses asked an angel if he could go with him. The angel had replied that Moses would not be able to handle the sights he would see. Moses pleaded with the Angel, and the Angel put down a condition that Moses not ask any questions pertaining to what he saw.

They came upon a fisherman who was fishing. The Angel caused the ship to drown, killing the fisherman. Moses began to respond to the sight, but the Angel reminded Moses that he was to remain silent through their journey.

They came upon a young boy and the Angel killed the young man. Again, Moses protested the act and the Angel reminded Moses not to ask questions or condemn the mission of the Angel.

They came upon a village where there was a widow who suffered poverty, and she had two sons. The Angel caused the wall to collapse.

Moses complained a third time, and the Angel stated that this was where Moses and the Angel had to part. But, before they parted, the Angel revealed the purpose and reasons behind why he did what he did.

Moses was told that the reason why the fisherman was drowned was to save him from capture of the King's ships and suffered bondage and captivity. His death freed him from slavery. The slain young boy would have rebelled and killed another innocent person which would have brought shame upon his parents, thereby, the young boys death saved the other innocent boy and the shame that his (the dead young man's) parents would have endured had he lived to rebel. And, the final was the collapse of the wall where, if the Angel had not caused this to occur, the two young boys would not find their inheritance that their father had hidden prior to his death so that the widow and her sons would be able to overcome their poverty.

We are like Moses, we do not understand the reasons why things happen in our lives. We do know of a surety that there is nothing out of God's plan and design that is not without reason. So also was the fall an event that has provided the reason for our hope and testimony.

If Adam and Eve had not partaken of the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and remained in the Garden of Eden we would not have need of a redeemer and savior.

There would be no need for Jesus Christ and his crucifixion.

There would be no need for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

There would be no need to believe and obey God.

There would be no need to have faith.

There would be no need to have hope.

There would be no need to grow from Grace to Grace and from Faith to Faith.

There would be no need for our faith to be challenged.

Essentially, we would have no need to understand and know the purpose of our life.

We are like that fisherman on that boat, the young man who was slain to prevent him from rebelling and committing a crime, and we are like the widow and her two sons who would eventually find the inheritance our Father has left us to find and enrich our lives. These things were done so that the purpose of God is right, just and true. What is that purpose? To bring to pass the eternal life and immortality of mankind. That is why Adam and Eve needed to transgress. We may not fully comprehend it, we may not even agree with it, but we are much like Moses who traveled with the Angel and could not understand why the Angel sunk the boat, caused the death of a young man, and collapse the wall. We are like Moses and protest along the way when we should keep quiet and have faith in knowing that some things may be beyond our comprehension and understanding.

[Blackmarch]

Hi everyone. I am just curious. But why would God want Adam and Eve to disobey Him just so that way they could have free agency? It makes no sense to me why God would want His children to disobey Him. Please help!

If you look at what God says here:

From the book of moses.

17 But of the tree of the aknowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it, nevertheless, thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given unto thee; but, remember that I forbid it, for in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely edie.

He did not tell Adam that he was to not take the fruit for that would be a sin, but that He told adam not to take the fruit because it would kill him, yet he left the matter to Adam to decide- so even if Adam chose to do it, it would not have been a sin. What was given to Adam? The tree.

Partaking of the tree was not a sin. When God says you may do either choice then it's not sin even if he advises the better path for you.

compared to genesis:

16And the Lord God acommanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Now while in the bible we don't have where he says the tree is given to him, or that he may choose for himself... we are told that he can freely eat from every tree, including the the tree of knowledge!

and again in the bible account he's being told "Don't eat it because it will kill you"

Edited February 28, 2011 by Blackmarch

[Seminarysnoozer]

My husband explained it to our children one family home evening something like this; It is similar to when a child reaches the age of 18 (or so), they are told by their parents that you can leave the house and start to live on their own. 'But if you decide to do that, you need to be ready to do it on your own. Yes, I will help you from time to time but if you are going to take that path you really need to be ready to take it on yourself because you will be separated from us and will not have access to all the things you have in our home and required to make a living on your own. You have received all the knowledge you need to do it but you don't have the experience yet until you actually go out on your own. When you are ready to do it, it is up to you but realize there are consequences to your actions. I want you to take that step when you are ready because that is the only way you will be able to care for your future family, is to learn those things on your own.'

[seven7up]

If you want to see some of more of the controversial aspects of the Fall of Adam and Eve, from a Mormon point of view, see this video, which refers to the Fall as an "unfortunate necessity".

13 Ex Materia - Entering Mortality

13 Ex Materia - Entering Mortality - YouTube

-7up

[Vort]

I miss Islander.