Gayness

[sgallan]

**** I am against any sexual activity except that which is between a Man and a Woman who are married to each other. Not that their sexual activity will lead to the creation of a baby every time they have sexual activity together, but at least the sexual activity has a purpose and will benefit the persons involved when they someday have a baby, which they undoubtedly will at some point in the future as long as they remain married to each other throughout eternity.****

Okay, let me rephrase then..... are you against any birth control, or sexual activity after menopause? One stops conception and the other is useless.

**** Anybody who knows what stars represent while using their brain should be able to admit there is a God. *****

Prove it. You can't of course. Nor can I disprove one. But you can't disprove the invisible fire breathing dragon, or Santa, or ghosts, or big foot, or any other of the other possible mythologies in the world. Many of which have millions, even billions of believers.

**** The mystery is in knowing what God is like and whether or not He is willing to help us progress. I suggest you consider that and what you will say to Him once you see Him.****

If your posited god were the real one I'd have a lot of things I would say. Not many would be nice.

*** And btw, the idea that I want to cause anyone any harm is a false belief.***

Then don't suggest it. On the other hand, if someone tried to do and of my loved ones harm, due to some belief (religious or otherwise)..... I would inflict a little harm.

*** People with the same beliefs are not always the same type of people, you know. I will admit that I don't particularly like people with the same beliefs I have that don't at least try to live up to them, but I do still love them for the persons they could be. ****

Don't bother here. Usually when people with the fundie mindset tell me they "love" me, or will "pray" for me, I take it as a shallow, and figure they are just using the ultimate Christian "I am better than you are". When people I consider loving Christians say it though..... I say "thank you".

[sgallan]

*** That’s part of the reason why it is the parent’s fault for not teaching their children about God and how they can get to know Him.****

You see it as a fault. I'll hold my values up to most. So I see it as being a good parent.

*** But still, most children will someday start seeking God on their own once they realize there must be a higher form of intelligence in the universe than what can be found on this planet. ****

Actually a lot of the really smart ones don't. I am pretty certain the majority of scientists are agnostics at the least. The ones who study the Universe probably being of the highest percentage. It is not hard to reference this either.

*** And if she already knows that you aren’t the most intelligent person on this planet, she will eventually start seeking knowledge about God from other people that she will consider to be smarter than you are.*****

Didn't work for me, did it? Not my dad - 2 of 3 kids as non-believers and the other not religious. Not an Uncle - who raised four non-believing children. So while she might, and I won't stop her, I'd even drive her to church (and have), I'd say the odds are against it and you are engaging in a little 'wishful thinking'.

[Ray]

Ray: But still, most children will someday start seeking God on their own once they realize there must be a higher form of intelligence in the universe than what can be found on this planet.

Scott: Actually a lot of the really smart ones don't. I am pretty certain the majority of scientists are agnostics at the least. The ones who study the Universe probably being of the highest percentage. It is not hard to reference this either.

Are you telling me that you think people who study the universe do not believe in a higher form of intelligence on other planets, and that they consider us to be the supreme life form in all of the universe?

Ray:  And if she already knows that you aren’t the most intelligent person on this planet, she will eventually start seeking knowledge about God from other people that she will consider to be smarter than you are.

Scott: Didn't work for me, did it? Not my dad - 2 of 3 kids as non-believers and the other not religious. Not an Uncle - who raised four non-believing children. So while she might, and I won't stop her, I'd even drive her to church (and have), I'd say the odds are against it and you are engaging in a little 'wishful thinking'.

If you are telling me that You are not looking for signs of higher forms of intelligence in the universe because you think You are it, and that you would encourage your daughter to follow your example, then I will double my efforts in praying that the true God in heaven will save us all.

[sgallan]

*** Are you telling me that you think people who study the universe do not believe in a higher form of intelligence on other planets, and that they consider us to be the supreme life form in all of the universe? ****

Ah, you are picking a nits now. They suspect there might be but don't know actually and sure don't see the need to give the credit for any of it to some higher power, much less a specifically defined one.

**** If you are telling me that You are not looking for signs of higher forms of intelligence in the universe ****

I like science. But I do not see any god(s) in the liking of science. Just cool stuff in the universe.

**** because you think You are it,****

I am 'it'? What is it? I am some guy enjoying the heck out of life - the good and the bad - and figure when I die, I die. It doesn't bother me in the least. Heck I even came on a traffic accident recently, help get a car that wanted to catch on fire ready in case we had to extract the guy. He was pretty grey though. You knew he wasn't long. He died a few minutes later (drunk) while I was rinning traffic. Bummer that..... but it still didn't spook me into a god belief.

*** and that you would encourage your daughter to follow your example, then I pray the true God in heaven will save us all.****

Good, I mean if it makes you feel better then pray away.

[Lindy]

Thanks Shan, and Amillia... and even you Ray for the input. I have, in my lifetime, had to chance to meet a lot of people, some of them I will remember for the rest of my life; some who did not influence my life in a positive way, but made an impact by making me a more humble person. Shantress, I agree with the "in your face" statement. Thank you for that. It helped put things a little more in perspective to me.

Nice to see you again Scott...sorry things aren't going so great for you right now. Reply to

Usually when people with the fundie mindset tell me they "love" me, or will "pray" for me, I take it as a shallow, and figure they are just using the ultimate Christian "I am better than you are". When people I consider loving Christians say it though..... I say "thank you".

......... I would hope that the Christian response....."I will pray for you" ...doesn't mean that they think that they are better than you are....they (we) just want good things for you, and ask for them .... for you (in prayer). Why take it as shallow? Sometimes it's just automatic for some people, they are just really the praying for everyone and everything kind of people (which is a good thing). I can still see your point of view when some people say it though... I know that there are different classifications of Christians....I won't lie to you about that one....and "thank you" is a very nice response to those sincere thoughts for you. I hear that one sometimes myself from agnostic friends :)

[USNationalist]

I rule and gays drool.

[Lindy]

Glad to see you back USN!

[sgallan]

Lindy -

You can pray for me.

When Ray prays for 'me', he really isn't praying for me. He is praying for me to be exactly like him. Otherwise, he'd rather people like me didn't exist. It is that fundie mindset which uses their religous beliefs as a "weapon". They have the astonishing arrogance that they are somehow the sole spokesperson for their God, and all who do not believe as they do are wrong and bad. There is not a lot of good in this mindset IMO. Just judgementalism, and people who are confused about love and hate..... they seem to think it is the same thing, or have it backwards. They somehow missed the good stuff of the religion. I now tend to think they are the minority, and just VERY vocal. All religions have these people.

[USNationalist]

I agree sgallen. I mean how right can they be if they disagree with me?

[Amillia]

Originally posted by sgallan@Feb 19 2005, 08:00 PM

Lindy -

You can pray for me.

When Ray prays for 'me', he really isn't praying for me. He is praying for me to be exactly like him. Otherwise, he'd rather people like me didn't exist. It is that fundie mindset which uses their religous beliefs as a "weapon". They have the astonishing arrogance that they are somehow the sole spokesperson for their God, and all who do not believe as they do are wrong and bad. There is not a lot of good in this mindset IMO. Just judgementalism, and people who are confused about love and hate..... they seem to think it is the same thing, or have it backwards. They somehow missed the good stuff of the religion. I now tend to think they are the minority, and just VERY vocal. All religions have these people.

When I think of atonishing arogance, you and your attitudes comes to mind. Shocking that you think Ray is arogant.

[sgallan]

**** When I think of atonishing arogance, you and your attitudes comes to mind.****

No denial here. But then again I am not trying to convert anybody to my belief system. I am at a point in my life where I don't care if the pious types think I am an a**hole. Afterall I am a godless heathen..... I am supposed to be. But your attitude seems to be lacking as well..... and you supposedly believe in a loving god.... so I am wondering what your excuse is.

*** Shocking that you think Ray is arogant. ****

Why? Please explain. And since you seem to be annoyed I know of a way you can fix that. Just think of me and my child going to some less than good place for eternity. That should cheer you up.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by sgallan@Feb 20 2005, 04:42 PM

**** When I think of atonishing arogance, you and your attitudes comes to mind.****

No denial here. But then again I am not trying to convert anybody to my belief system. I am at a point in my life where I don't care if the pious types think I am an a**hole. Afterall I am a godless heathen..... I am supposed to be.  But your attitude seems to be lacking as well..... and you supposedly believe in a loving god.... so I am wondering what your excuse is. 

Believing in God doesn't make me a rug to be walked on, nor does it allow me to watch you attack anyone else for things they are totally innocent of and not do anything or say anything.

Where did you ever get the idea that being a Christian meant being a whimp who watched people be assaulted and just stand there with their thumb up their dum?

Christ ridiculed the wicked and we are to follow his example as Christians. That is my excuse for pointing out your foibles. :)

[Amillia]

Originally posted by sgallan@Feb 20 2005, 04:42 PM

*** Shocking that you think Ray is arogant. ****

Why? Please explain. And since you seem to be annoyed I know of a way you can fix that. Just think of me and my child going to some less than good place for eternity. That should cheer you up.

Ray isn't at all arrogant. And you choosing to send yourself to a lower kingdom doesn't make anyone happy. But then you really aren't interested in making me or anyone else here happy are you?

[sgallan]

** Believing in God doesn't make me a rug to be walked on, nor does it allow me to watch you attack anyone else for things they are totally innocent of and not do anything or say anything.***

Funny, I don't remember saying anything to you first. So what was it exactly which made you decide to show your version of Xian love/hate again? Or is it one of those..... LDS good..... gentile bad.... type things?

**** Where did you ever get the idea that being a Christian meant being a whimp who watched people be assaulted and just stand there with their thumb up their dum?****

I have never believed that. Those with the fundamentalist mindset would like to see me extinct. You are one of those. Smile..... in your hereafter you will get your wish.

**** Christ ridiculed the wicked and we are to follow his example as Christians.***

Ya, I know..... much like fundamentalist Muslims, you will find something within your religion to hate those who do not believe as you do.... and then call it love. Honestly, I could see you striking me down if you had the chance. No really. Or my wife. Or my kid. I am serious. You hate and would call it love. At one time I almost became anti-religion because of folks like you. But I came around.... you are just one of those who took the worst out of a religion. It doesn't matter which religion... your type exist in them all. And the amazing thing is..... within the same religion.... a good many board friends... on another board.... gave me some significant unconditional love with my current problems that helped a lot. They must attend a different Ward/Stake. One which actually loves people. I would never bring such a thing to this board. Too many people - like you - have made their religion a judgemental thing full of hate. Fine. You take on me or mine and I am up for the battle.

*** That is my excuse for pointing out your foibles. ****

I see..... so you are the next Christ then.... right? Well given this.... why don't you perform a miracle for me. You see my wife is in drug rehab..... make it so it never happened... that she never started drugs 30 years ago.... and later in life my daughter didn't get to see it..... and I didn't have to have my wife arrested.

Or how about this Ms God..... at the very least..... I have a lot on my plate with a distraught kid, and so on..... ease things. Come on now..... you are the next Christ..... lets see the miracle. Yeah.... I thought so. You are just some internet personna who would defend their faith with hate in anon way. It makes you feel better. And special. Right? And you would suggest this faith for me? Yeah right. I would pray to a god which gives an attitude like yours for my current challenges? Screw that. Why bother? Why pray to a god of hate? A Christ of hate? Nah, I think I'll accept the prayers of those - who belong to your faith and others - who worship a Christ of love. They are good people. I appreciate their faith even if I don't believe it.

Exactly what value does you religion have? Especially given your attitude? The ability to judge and hate and call it love? I think I'll pass.

Oh PS..... this is the kid (playing with a gold medalist from Egypt) you get to lull yourself to sleep with tonite thinking she will not be allowed to you heaven (and problems aside she still smiles like this). Enjoy your dreams and don't bother with your denial as I do not believe you are not smug in your knowledge we will go elsewhere.....

http://www.amateurwrestlingphotos.com/meng...aber%200089.htm

PS.... send some more of your LDS values my way..... I rather enjoy the perspective. It reminds me that no matter how intense my situation is.... it could be worse. My little one could be like you.

Scott - unloading with some real world problems to a hateful fundie internet game player who I wish nothing but bad for.... and I actually mean it.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by sgallan@Feb 21 2005, 12:00 AM

** Believing in God doesn't make me a rug to be walked on, nor does it allow me to watch you attack anyone else for things they are totally innocent of and not do anything or say anything.***

Funny, I don't remember saying anything to you first. So what was it exactly which made you decide to show your version of Xian love/hate again? Or is it one of those..... LDS good..... gentile bad.... type things?

**** Where did you ever get the idea that being a Christian meant being a whimp who watched people be assaulted and just stand there with their thumb up their dum?****

I have never believed that. Those with the fundamentalist mindset would like to see me extinct. You are one of those. Smile..... in your hereafter you will get your wish.

**** Christ ridiculed the wicked and we are to follow his example as Christians.***

Ya, I know..... much like fundamentalist Muslims, you will find something within your religion to hate those who do not believe as you do.... and then call it love. Honestly, I could see you striking me down if you had the chance. No really. Or my wife. Or my kid. I am serious. You hate and would call it love. At one time I almost became anti-religion because of folks like you. But I came around.... you are just one of those who took the worst out of a religion. It doesn't matter which religion... your type exist in them all. And the amazing thing is..... within the same religion.... a good many board friends... on another board.... gave me some significant unconditional love with my current problems that helped a lot. They must attend a different Ward/Stake. One which actually loves people. I would never bring such a thing to this board. Too many people - like you -  have made their religion a judgemental thing full of hate. Fine. You take on me or mine and I am up for the battle.  

***  That is my excuse for pointing out your foibles. ****

I see..... so you are the next Christ then.... right? Well given this.... why don't you perform a miracle for me. You see my wife is in drug rehab..... make it so it never happened... that she never started drugs 30 years ago.... and later in life my daughter didn't get to see it..... and I didn't have to have my wife arrested.

Or how about this Ms God..... at the very least..... I have a lot on my plate with a distraught kid, and so on..... ease things.  Come on now..... you are the next Christ..... lets see the miracle. Yeah.... I thought so. You are just some internet personna who would defend their faith with hate in anon way. It makes you feel better. And special. Right? And you would suggest this faith for me? Yeah right. I would pray to a god which gives an attitude like yours for my current challenges? Screw that. Why bother? Why pray to a god of hate? A Christ of hate? Nah, I think I'll accept the prayers of those - who belong to your faith and others - who worship a Christ of love. They are good people. I appreciate their faith even if I don't believe it. 

Exactly what value does you religion have? Especially given your attitude? The ability to judge and hate and call it love? I think I'll pass.

Oh PS..... this is the kid (playing with a gold medalist from Egypt) you get to lull yourself to sleep with tonite thinking she will not be allowed to you heaven (and problems aside she still smiles like this). Enjoy your dreams and don't bother with your denial as I do not believe you are not smug in your knowledge we will go elsewhere.....

http://www.amateurwrestlingphotos.com/meng...aber%200089.htm

PS.... send some more of your LDS values my way..... I rather enjoy the perspective. It reminds me that no matter how intense my situation is.... it could be worse. My little one could be like you.

Scott - unloading with some real world problems to a hateful fundie internet game player who I wish nothing but bad for.... and I actually mean it.

I don't get where you get the hate from, unless you are looking into the mirror of your own heart. I am sorry to hear about your wife, but why do you have to take out these frustrations on people who have nothing to do with it?

I can only pray for your wife, the rest is up to you and the Lord. As for your daughter turning out like me?~ One can only hope and pray that she has that good of outcome.

[sgallan]

*** And you choosing to send yourself to a lower kingdom doesn't make anyone happy.***

I do not believe you.

**** But then you really aren't interested in making me or anyone else here happy are you? ****

Actually, I hope I do quite the opposite with the likes of you. You see, I post as a real person, with real problems. I live in Parker Arizona. I am Scott Gallan. Google me. I am frickin serious about everything I say. So while you play your game of hate.... I happen to live in the real world. One in which I stand by my wife even with her demons. Raise a kid as a temprarily single dad..... and suck at being a mom (I found her four surrogate moms she can call at anytime day or night). I also volunteer most of my time helping others. So go ahead..... pontificate away as to the value of your faith.... in the meantime I will face my challenges without your hate, nor the hate of your posited god.... and will continue enjoying all aspects of life.... good and bad.... helping where I can. And raising that adorable gifted child without the BS you call love and faith. If you are an example of the value of Christ, then I was sold a bill of goods as to what I grew up with. You know..... that Christ was one of the good guys. My bad. Still..... there are others.... within your faith..... who actually got the good stuff.... so I will withhold judgement and consider you an abberration.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by sgallan@Feb 21 2005, 12:12 AM

*** And you choosing to send yourself to a lower kingdom doesn't make anyone happy.***

I do not believe you.

**** But then you really aren't interested in making me or anyone else here happy are you? ****

Actually, I hope I do quite the opposite with the likes of you. You see, I post as a real person, with real problems. I live in Parker Arizona. I am Scott Gallan. Google me. I am frickin serious about everything I say. So while you play your game of hate.... I happen to live in the real world. One in which I stand by my wife even with her demons. Raise a kid as a temprarily single dad..... and suck at being a mom (I found her four surrogate moms she can call at anytime day or night). I also volunteer most of my time helping others. So go ahead..... pontificate away as to the value of your faith.... in the meantime I will face my challenges without your hate, nor the hate of your posited god.... and will continue enjoying all aspects of life.... good and bad.... helping where I can. And raising that adorable gifted child without the BS you call love and faith. If you are an example of the value of Christ, then I was sold a bill of goods as to what I grew up with. You know..... that Christ was one of the good guys. My bad. Still..... there are others.... within your faith..... who actually got the good stuff.... so I will withhold judgement and consider you an abberration.

You think you are the only one with challenges? Phooy. You are the one throwing the hate around and acting all superior. I hope only the best for you and your little family.

[sgallan]

*** I don't get where you get the hate from, unless you are looking into the mirror of your own heart.****

Yeah... I forgot. You are god and can read my heart. Well welcome to the real world.

** I am sorry to hear about your wife, ***

I don't believe you.

**** but why do you have to take our these frustrations on people who have nothing to do with it? ****

You came after me. If you can't handle it..... then don't do it. I take my fustrations on people like you because while I try to help.... you spread the opposite.

*** I can only pray for your wife,****

Don't bother. I consider prayers from the likes of you as a way to make yourself feel superior. Shallow and worthless. I have a good many LDS and other religious friends who are sincere. I consider yours as counter productive.

*** the rest is up to you ***

I can only take care of myself and my child.

**** and the Lord. ****

If it is the Lord as shown by you..... then me and mine are screwed.

[sgallan]

*** You think you are the only one with challenges? Phooy. You are the one throwing the hate around and acting all superior.****

Christian love.... thanks.

*** I hope only the best for you and your little family. ****

I do not believe you. Not even a "little" bit.

Remember.... sleep easy tonite. Just count us little heathens.

[Amillia]

[sgallan]

mmmmm

[Amillia]

Originally posted by sgallan@Feb 21 2005, 12:22 AM

**** As for your daughter turning out like me?~ ***

A c***. Nah.....

**** One can only hope and pray that she has that good of outcome. ****

Humility eh?

Do you want her to turn out like her mother?

[sgallan]

*** Do you want her to turn out like her mother? ****

Her mother when not on drugs is the most sweet, kind, and wonderful people I have met. So minus the drugs..... yes, I would very much like her to turn out like her mother. Thanks for asking.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by sgallan@Feb 21 2005, 12:25 AM

*** Do you want her to turn out like her mother? ****

Her mother when not on drugs is the most sweet, kind, and wonderful people I have met. So minus the drugs..... yes, I would very much like her to turn out like her mother. Thanks for asking.

But you can't take drugs out of the equation that easy. That is just living a lie.

[sgallan]

You see..... unlike you, I believe in the santcity of marraige. Of standing by the ones I love through thick and thin. Of a tough love..... but a love with second chances. I love my wife. And yet I had her arrested. And I will help her through her problems while taking measures to protect the child.