Remission of sins and other questions?

[bytebear]

We need to be obedient when it comes to being baptized, but faith baptizm is not required for salvation. If we put our faith in works then our faith is not in Christ. There is nothing we can do to add to what Christ has already done. If we have faith, it will be reflected in our works. But trusting in works for a right relationship with God will end in total failure.

Do you really think that when you are at the bar of Judgement and Christ says, "Were you obedient?" and you say no, that you will be saved?

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. - Matt 7:21

Baptism is not a work, but a covenant. I would recommend studying the difference between the two.

[aj4u]

Do you really think that when you are at the bar of Judgement and Christ says, "Were you obedient?" and you say no, that you will be saved?

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. - Matt 7:21

Baptism is not a work, but a covenant. I would recommend studying the difference between the two.

Where does it say that in the Bible? Jesus is the one who made the covenant with His blood for us. That is where all our faith should be. Jesus is the total spiritual sum of all things. Please look at my modified pervious post>

[aj4u]

I have mentioned what baptism is. It is a commitment similiar to marriage vows. It is an outward manifestation of an inward change. If there has been no change in us prior to baptism, baptism means nothing. Just like two people saying their wedding vows that don't mean it. Baptism is a marriage between you and Jesus and the the body of Christ. If we are not born again before baptism it is just empty works! Finally, it is deadly to put our faith in baptism over Christ.

[bytebear]

The Book of Mormon discuss the Baptism covenant:

Alma 7: 15

15 Yea, I say unto you come and fear not, and lay aside every sin, which easily doth abeset you, which doth bind you down to destruction, yea, come and go forth, and show unto your God that ye are willing to repent of your sins and enter into a covenant with him to keep his commandments, and witness it unto him this day by going into the waters of baptism.

As to the comparison to Marriage vows, you are correct, but marriage is also a covenant. In fact, it is called the New and Everlasting Covenant.

You are correct, you will not be saved by being baptized, but you will surely be damned if you are not.

Put it another way. Not all baptized people will be saved, but all unbaptized people will be damned. You cannot believe in Jesus, have total faith in him, and yet refuse baptism.

Here is an example:

Matthew 19:

16 ¶ And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Now, ask yourself: Did this man have faith in Jesus Christ? Did he believe? Yet, God asks far less of us in baptism.

[aj4u]

The Book of Mormon discuss the Baptism covenant:

As to the comparison to Marriage vows, you are correct, but marriage is also a covenant. In fact, it is called the New and Everlasting Covenant.

You are correct, you will not be saved by being baptized, but you will surely be damned if you are not..

Tell that to the thief that died on the cross!

Put it another way. Not all baptized people will be saved, but all unbaptized people will be damned. You cannot believe in Jesus, have total faith in him, and yet refuse baptism.

Here is an example:

Matthew 19:

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Now, ask yourself: Did this man have faith in Jesus Christ? Did he believe? Yet, God asks far less of us in baptism.

Just for the record, I have been baptized in water, but what does Mat 19 have to do with the topic? I believe the man had faith. When Jesus said it is easier for a camel to make it through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven His disciples marveled saying "who could be saved?" Jesus said, "With God all things are possible." Does God ask less of us in baptism? You had better think again, Jesus said, "Whosoever he be of you that forsakes not all that he has he cannot be my disciple" Luke 14:33. Many followers of Christ have given up their wealth, homes, and families to serve God. When I was young, I left all. I have experienced forsaking all to follow Jesus by going into all the world to share the gospel to the point my family disowned me. I had quit a good job working at Con Edison, and now I am in the winter of my life still trusting Jesus for my retirement years. There are lots of books written by different prohets, but I always default to the Bible. I trust that more than any other book!

[bytebear]

Tell that to the thief that died on the cross!

Baptism for the dead.

[spiritseeker]

A covenant is A formal sealed contract or agreement. How can you say that baptism or marriage isn't a covenant? Going down into the baptismal pool , I made a covenant with the Lord to follow Him to the best of my ability. To serve Him till the day I die and beyond. The biggest point I see in regards to baptism I have stated before and so have others. If Jesus took the time to do this then I know I should.... He was showing us through His life how we should live ours. Jesus went down into the waters and when He came up the Holy Spirit fell upon Him. And Heavenly Father spoke , " This is my beloved son,in whom I am well pleased. " To me that shows that God the Father is showing His acceptance of this covenant. I don't want to sound condescending but, you really can't grasp it without the Restored Gospel. There was a reason that Heavenly Father restored the message. It had become distorted....

[nickleboyblue]

Just a couple of notes:

The atonement works through covenants, which are two-way agreements between ourselves and Deity. Think of covenants as a sort of contract, or maybe even a law of physics: you jump, and gravity pulls you back down, which is a natural reaction to your action. God sets the requirements and the blessings (or the actions and the consequences), and gives us the opportunity to enter into these covenants. The covenant of baptizm is not just a two-way agreement. Here is why:

1: We lived before we were born, as spirit sons and daughters of God in His presence. We gathered in a counsel where God told us His plan, His doctrine, and how it was all going to be carried out. He asked for a volunteer to perform the atonement for us, and Christ stepped forward. Satan also stepped forward, but with a plan of his own and the idea that he would force everyone to accept salvation. Satan was rejected, Christ was accepted. When Christ was accepted, he was given the power to forgive sin through a covenant between himself and God. This covenant is found in the last chapter of the Book of Mormon, Moroni 10:33. This passage states that, when we repent, we are made perfect through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is IN THE COVENANT WITH THE FATHER. That covenant is the only reason that Christ's blood as a symbol has any more effect on us than any other man's blood.

2: Our side of the covenant is entered into by baptism. Without it, we are not covered by the sin-forgiving properties of the atonement and are left only tot he resurrection, to rise in our bodies and be judges of God. When we are baptized, we covenant that we will always strive to take upon ourselves the name of Christ, which means we will continually improve ourselves throughout life through repentance. In other words, we are covenanting to repent.

3: Repentance requires baptism. Alma 34:16 states that those who do not have the faith to repent are not covered by the atonement in any way except that they, as all others, will be resurrected to be judged of God. It might seem a little harsh to say that no man is forgiven except through baptism, but when you think about it, if God gave Christ the power to forgive sins if Christ would suffer the pains of the atonement, and if Christ extends that forgiveness to us if we first enter into baptism, it is consistent with the way that God has always dealt with us, and that is through covenant. That is why baptism is talked about so often not as the final goal, but as the gate to enter into the way to God.

Clarification: just FYI, these statements only apply to the highest degree of salvation, which is salvation in God's presence. The last verse of Romans 6 tells us that there is only one punishment for sin, and that is death. What is meant here is spiritual death, or separation from God's presence, and that spiritual death comes to all who sin, meaning that no one comes back to God except through Christ's atonement for our sins. Not that this scripture does not say a little sin brings a little death, and a lot of sin brings a lot of death. It is one punishment for ALL sin. Also note that forgiveness of your sins does not occur two thousand years ago. What happened then prepared Christ through His covenant with God to forgive us of our sins, and no one, including ourselves, is more excited about forgiving your sins than Christ.

To some, even salvation in a lower degree of glory than that which is in God's presence will feel like a sort of death, because they will know that they could have done better had they tried because God was there to give them the strength.

I want you to know that salvation is one and the same as the highest degree of happiness that exists, even beyond our imaginations. I know I can't be happy there without my family and friends, and I know they wouldn't be happy there without their families and friends. In order for salvation to work for everyone who is going to be saved, all of their true family and friends, all of those who they truly love and adore, have to make it in too. Otherwise, heaven is no place for me, you, Moses, or any other faithful believer.