What Is Success?

[mark44]

family, friends, acquaintances, and church leaders and members all seem to equate the following with success - being married, having children, an education and/or training, accomplishment in one's field (whether it be plumbing or medicine), and for men - making enough money to support a nonworking wife and at least two children if not more.

i think though that this definition of success could leave people frustrated. it has made me frustrated and angry, because much of it depends on someone else's decision and so i don't have control over it eg someone had to decide to marry me, to have children, someone else has to decide give me a job and how much to pay me.

but reading the scriptures i get a diifrrent story. just a few simple commandments

love god and neigbor, don't steal, keep law of chastity and word of wisfom, pay a tithe, fast, read scrips, pray, and go to church.

question: if i do all the above commandments, but never marry even though i want to and pursue it, never make much money, am just average at my career, or if married do not make enough to give my family a comfortable living - does that matter in god's eyes, can i still go to exaltation eventually.

[mark44]

come to think of it, i couldn't care a less what anyone, least of all god, thinks. this life is already like the torment i have read about in the scripture, a living and daily lake of fire and brimstone, and anything, even the lowliest level of the lowest kingdom, will be better than enduring these flames.

[Ray]

Originally posted by mark44@Jan 31 2005, 05:21 PM

question: if i do all the above commandments, but never marry even though i want to and pursue it, never make much money, am just average at my career, or if married do not make enough to give my family a comfortable living - does that matter in god's eyes, can i still go to exaltation eventually.

The short answer is Yes, and you will find that God will help you to achieve many things that you otherwise couldn't or wouldn’t be able to do on your own.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by mark44@Jan 31 2005, 06:47 PM

come to think of it, i couldn't care a less what anyone, least of all god, thinks. this life is already like the torment i have read about in the scripture, a living and daily lake of fire and brimstone, and anything, even the lowliest level of the lowest kingdom, will be better than enduring these flames.

You sound like you are suffering. Care to share? How old are you? Married? Children? How many? Single? lonely? What is it that is making your flames?

[pushka]

Originally posted by Amillia+Jan 31 2005, 08:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Amillia @ Jan 31 2005, 08:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--mark44@Jan 31 2005, 06:47 PM

come to think of it, i couldn't care a less what anyone, least of all god, thinks. this life is already like the torment i have read about in the scripture, a living and daily lake of fire and brimstone, and anything, even the lowliest level of the lowest kingdom, will be better than enduring these flames.

You sound like you are suffering. Care to share? How old are you? Married? Children? How many? Single? lonely? What is it that is making your flames?

Amillia...Can't you remember Mark44's other topic 'I'm In A Hole I Can't Get Out Of..' on which you have posted many responses??? That explains his current 'situation' very well...

[Amillia]

Originally posted by pushka+Feb 1 2005, 05:03 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (pushka @ Feb 1 2005, 05:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Amillia@Jan 31 2005, 08:05 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--mark44@Jan 31 2005, 06:47 PM

come to think of it, i couldn't care a less what anyone, least of all god, thinks. this life is already like the torment i have read about in the scripture, a living and daily lake of fire and brimstone, and anything, even the lowliest level of the lowest kingdom, will be better than enduring these flames.

You sound like you are suffering. Care to share? How old are you? Married? Children? How many? Single? lonely? What is it that is making your flames?

Amillia...Can't you remember Mark44's other topic 'I'm In A Hole I Can't Get Out Of..' on which you have posted many responses??? That explains his current 'situation' very well...

Sorry. I forget whose who. I must take better care.

Mark,

You can put your flames out. I know it doesn't feel like it, but you are the only one who can.

[Cal]

Originally posted by mark44@Jan 31 2005, 05:21 PM

family, friends, acquaintances, and church leaders and members all seem to equate the following with success - being married, having children, an education and/or training, accomplishment in one's field (whether it be plumbing or medicine), and for men - making enough money to support a nonworking wife and at least two children if not more.

i think though that this definition of success could leave people frustrated. it has made me frustrated and angry, because much of it depends on someone else's decision and so i don't have control over it eg someone had to decide to marry me, to have children, someone else has to decide give me a job and how much to pay me.

but reading the scriptures i get a diifrrent story. just a few simple commandments

love god and neigbor, don't steal, keep law of chastity and word of wisfom, pay a tithe, fast, read scrips, pray, and go to church.

question: if i do all the above commandments, but never marry even though i want to and pursue it, never make much money, am just average at my career, or if married do not make enough to give my family a comfortable living - does that matter in god's eyes, can i still go to exaltation eventually.

There is a scripture in the BoM, can't remember the site off the top of my head, but it says something like "God grants to man according to his desires" (meaning the man's desires). I like to think that God let's people be who they are and set their own standards for excellence and happiness. Obviously, many set them quite low, but that is its own reward.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Cal+Feb 1 2005, 08:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cal @ Feb 1 2005, 08:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--mark44@Jan 31 2005, 05:21 PM

family, friends, acquaintances, and church leaders and members all seem to equate the following with success - being married, having children, an education and/or training, accomplishment in one's field (whether it be plumbing or medicine), and for men - making enough money to support a nonworking wife and at least two children if not more.

i think though that this definition of success could leave people frustrated. it has made me frustrated and angry, because much of it depends on someone else's decision and so i don't have control over it eg someone had to decide to marry me, to have children, someone else has to decide give me a job and how much to pay me.

but reading the scriptures i get a diifrrent story. just a few simple commandments

love god and neigbor, don't steal, keep law of chastity and word of wisfom, pay a tithe, fast, read scrips, pray, and go to church.

question: if i do all the above commandments, but never marry even though i want to and pursue it, never make much money, am just average at my career, or if married do not make enough to give my family a comfortable living - does that matter in god's eyes, can i still go to exaltation eventually.

There is a scripture in the BoM, can't remember the site off the top of my head, but it says something like "God grants to man according to his desires" (meaning the man's desires). I like to think that God let's people be who they are and set their own standards for excellence and happiness. Obviously, many set them quite low, but that is its own reward.

I think that is deep Cal. Very interesting thought.

[Traveler]

Originally posted by mark44@Jan 31 2005, 05:21 PM

family, friends, acquaintances, and church leaders and members all seem to equate the following with success - being married, having children, an education and/or training, accomplishment in one's field (whether it be plumbing or medicine), and for men - making enough money to support a nonworking wife and at least two children if not more.

i think though that this definition of success could leave people frustrated. it has made me frustrated and angry, because much of it depends on someone else's decision and so i don't have control over it eg someone had to decide to marry me, to have children, someone else has to decide give me a job and how much to pay me.

but reading the scriptures i get a diifrrent story. just a few simple commandments

love god and neigbor, don't steal, keep law of chastity and word of wisfom, pay a tithe, fast, read scrips, pray, and go to church.

question: if i do all the above commandments, but never marry even though i want to and pursue it, never make much money, am just average at my career, or if married do not make enough to give my family a comfortable living - does that matter in god's eyes, can i still go to exaltation eventually.

Mark44: I am often concerned when people think that happiness and success are something that comes from the outside in. I feel more that success comes from making the most of what is on the inside. But there is a problem. If one centers their hopes on self they will find that life will become confining, limited and in slaving. But by focusing on others they find their skills rewarding and fulfilling.

One of the reasons a Buddhist learns to mediate is to become aware. Some think of meditation as being self-aware but that is not true. The purpose of meditation is awakening awareness of self, time and place. I believe such awareness includes G-d and others as reflected in your understanding of success.

I have incorporated an understanding from a Buddhist friend (lay monk) of mediation into bicycling. I commute by bicycle to and from work (when there is no ice). I use this time to mediate and search my thoughts and methods of facing what I am and where I am.

I am devout LDS and I am not recommending Buddhism. I am recommending that good and true things should be embraced wherever they are found. You may consider trying a mediation technique. Take about a half hour to start. Put yourself in a place where you can be alone with your thoughts for that half hour. Explore the thoughts that come to you. Let them come however they may and ponder everything you can about them. Where the come from, how long they stay, how they make you feel, if you really want them or not.

Do this more than once and then begin to explore who you are and what you want to do with your thought that find place in you. I have found many thought that I have decided I do not want to be a part of me. So I have chosen to forget them and explore other thoughts that I find of greater value. Ponder your thoughts with what you learn from scripture study. Ponder your prayers like your thoughts.

When you think you have some insight to yourself begin to ponder others and how you relate to them. Ponder what you can do to assist others is their success quest. Ponder how when you are happy what effect it has on others. Ponder when you are despondent how that affects others especially those that are close to you. Ponder what you can add that would have eternal value. Enjoy your thought and who you are or change them.

The Traveler

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Traveler+Feb 2 2005, 05:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Traveler @ Feb 2 2005, 05:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--mark44@Jan 31 2005, 05:21 PM

family, friends, acquaintances, and church leaders and members all seem to equate the following with success - being married, having children, an education and/or training, accomplishment in one's field (whether it be plumbing or medicine), and for men - making enough money to support a nonworking wife and at least two children if not more.

i think though that this definition of success could leave people frustrated. it has made me frustrated and angry, because much of it depends on someone else's decision and so i don't have control over it eg someone had to decide to marry me, to have children, someone else has to decide give me a job and how much to pay me.

but reading the scriptures i get a diifrrent story. just a few simple commandments

love god and neigbor, don't steal, keep law of chastity and word of wisfom, pay a tithe, fast, read scrips, pray, and go to church.

question: if i do all the above commandments, but never marry even though i want to and pursue it, never make much money, am just average at my career, or if married do not make enough to give my family a comfortable living - does that matter in god's eyes, can i still go to exaltation eventually.

Mark44: I am often concerned when people think that happiness and success are something that comes from the outside in. I feel more that success comes from making the most of what is on the inside. But there is a problem. If one centers their hopes on self they will find that life will become confining, limited and in slaving. But by focusing on others they find their skills rewarding and fulfilling.

One of the reasons a Buddhist learns to mediate is to become aware. Some think of meditation as being self-aware but that is not true. The purpose of meditation is awakening awareness of self, time and place. I believe such awareness includes G-d and others as reflected in your understanding of success.

I have incorporated an understanding from a Buddhist friend (lay monk) of mediation into bicycling. I commute by bicycle to and from work (when there is no ice). I use this time to mediate and search my thoughts and methods of facing what I am and where I am.

I am devout LDS and I am not recommending Buddhism. I am recommending that good and true things should be embraced wherever they are found. You may consider trying a mediation technique. Take about a half hour to start. Put yourself in a place where you can be alone with your thoughts for that half hour. Explore the thoughts that come to you. Let them come however they may and ponder everything you can about them. Where the come from, how long they stay, how they make you feel, if you really want them or not.

Do this more than once and then begin to explore who you are and what you want to do with your thought that find place in you. I have found many thought that I have decided I do not want to be a part of me. So I have chosen to forget them and explore other thoughts that I find of greater value. Ponder your thoughts with what you learn from scripture study. Ponder your prayers like your thoughts.

When you think you have some insight to yourself begin to ponder others and how you relate to them. Ponder what you can do to assist others is their success quest. Ponder how when you are happy what effect it has on others. Ponder when you are despondent how that affects others especially those that are close to you. Ponder what you can add that would have eternal value. Enjoy your thought and who you are or change them.

The Traveler

Thanks Traveler, this really is beneficial.