bytor2112 Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Excerpt:The percentage of self-identified Christians has fallen 10 points in the past two decades. How that statistic explains who we are now—and what, as a nation, we are about to become.By Jon Meacham | NEWSWEEK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Godless Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 The US was founded on the precept of religious freedom. Hence, it was never, technically, a Christian nation. Even so, I think it's safe to say that Christians will represent the majority of our population for many years to come. It's funny to see how strongly the persecution complex comes out whenever the religious majority loses a single inch of influence in this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxel Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 The US was founded on the precept of religious freedom. Hence, it was never, technically, a Christian nation. Even so, I think it's safe to say that Christians will represent the majority of our population for many years to come. It's funny to see how strongly the persecution complex comes out whenever the religious majority loses a single inch of influence in this country. I wholeheartedly agree with the statement about the U.S. never being a Christian country and that Christians currently make up the majority of the population, and probably will for the next few years (I think we'll see a faster decline in Christians as time goes on).I don't see articles like this, however, as a manifestation of a persecution complex (although it does exist). I saw this article as an honest evaluation of the spiritual health of our current society. I think part of the reason Christians are so worried is that, even among those who profess to be Christians, a large chunk (perhaps a majority) of them don't even regularly attend any church, and the ones that do attend often have ulterior motives for going (i.e., motives that don't include the desire to feast upon the word of God). When we see a decline in Christians altogether- including the inactive and hypocritical ones- we react, in part, in despair for our country, and what we perceive to be the dangerous track it is on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleWyvern Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Hm. I don't see this so much as a decline in the amount of Christians than a decrease in the amount of religious people. Whether this is bad for the United States is probably an unanswerable question (define bad). I think people of non-Christian religions and even atheists/agnostics/etc. can be just as morally and ethically sound as Christians are, if that's what the OP is worried about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 We are not a Christian Nation....we are a Nation of People or citizens...I think thats close to the quote our President used yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytor2112 Posted April 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 America was and is a nation founded on Judeo/Cjristian principles, but we are a secular government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 I wholeheartedly agree with the statement about the U.S. never being a Christian country and that Christians currently make up the majority of the population, and probably will for the next few years (I think we'll see a faster decline in Christians as time goes on).I don't see articles like this, however, as a manifestation of a persecution complex (although it does exist). I saw this article as an honest evaluation of the spiritual health of our current society. I think part of the reason Christians are so worried is that, even among those who profess to be Christians, a large chunk (perhaps a majority) of them don't even regularly attend any church, and the ones that do attend often have ulterior motives for going (i.e., motives that don't include the desire to feast upon the word of God). When we see a decline in Christians altogether- including the inactive and hypocritical ones- we react, in part, in despair for our country, and what we perceive to be the dangerous track it is on.If it wasn't then what was the purpose of the founding fathers who admitted that our country stands on this principle? Why should those who were persecuted in other lands by national religious groups come to America? Yes! This country was founded many times on the founding principle of being followers of Christ since Adam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elgama Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 are LDS counted as Christians for this survey? -Charley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleWyvern Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 If it wasn't then what was the purpose of the founding fathers who admitted that our country stands on this principle?When the founders said "Once nation under God," it wasn't a God that any LDS Church members (or many Christians for that matter) will recognize. We've already had a loooooong thread about the Deist concept of God.Why should those who were persecuted in other lands by national religious groups come to America?I think a large part of the draw of America in the early days is that there was no state religion. America wasn't meant to be one certain religion. At the time of America's founding this was basically unheard of in Europe and elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trulykiwi Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 If it wasn't then what was the purpose of the founding fathers who admitted that our country stands on this principle? Why should those who were persecuted in other lands by national religious groups come to America? Yes! This country was founded many times on the founding principle of being followers of Christ since Adam.It was in the Book Of Mormon that the Lord said America was a land where it's occupants were to worship him and if they did this they would be free and prosperous.However, that isn't happening and the curses have been prominent now that wickedness and ungodliness abounds. Why are there so many natural disasters and freedom is getting squashed and a closed society is becoming more apparent and America is not prospering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravin Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Hence, it was never, technically, a Christian nation.One could however say its a nation of Christians (obviously not exclusively so), which is what a I think a lot of people mean when they use the phrase, "Christian Nation.". Now anyone who maintains that Christianity is enshrined (some principles yes, but the religion no) or held up by the Constitution is mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleWyvern Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 One could however say its a nation of Christians (obviously not exclusively so), which is what a I think a lot of people mean when they use the phrase, "Christian Nation.". Now anyone who maintains that Christianity is enshrined (some principles yes, but the religion no) or held up by the Constitution is mistaken.The thing is that people often use "Christian Nation" when they say it should stay a "Christian Nation", and everything that isn't "Christian" is bad for the country, un-American, etc. It's antidisestablishmentarianism in a sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravin Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 The thing is that people often use "Christian Nation" when they say it should stay a "Christian Nation", and everything that isn't "Christian" is bad for the country, un-American, etc. It's antidisestablishmentarianism in a sense. I understand what you are saying, there are people who are of the bent, "Teh Non-Christian is teh EvIl!!11! I hat the non-Christian11!" I don't think that's everyone who uses the term. I suppose though it could be enough of 'em to prejudice one against the phrase.However if somebody has a set of ideas and principles that is espoused in Christianity and they see the decline of Christianity as the diminishing of those principles and ideals I can understand why they worry. Just like how there are those who see a bunch of ideals and principles they don't espouse in Christianity and look forward to this kind of news as it means less resistance to what they want. *shrug*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elphaba Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 .Why are there so many natural disastersGeography 101.freedom is getting squashed and a closed society is becoming more apparent and America is not prospering?It's highly debatable that this is actually true.But if it is, it all happened under the watch of Christians.Can't blame me! Elphaba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleWyvern Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 I understand what you are saying, there are people who are of the bent, "Teh Non-Christian is teh EvIl!!11! I hat the non-Christian11!" I don't think that's everyone who uses the term. I suppose though it could be enough of 'em to prejudice one against the phrase.Yeah, that's how I usually hear it meant. If this is a prejudice I apologise.However if somebody has a set of ideas and principles that is espoused in Christianity and they see the decline of Christianity as the diminishing of those principles and ideals I can understand why they worry. Just like how there are those who see a bunch of ideals and principles they don't espouse in Christianity and look forward to this kind of news as it means less resistance to what they want. *shrug*.Ah... so I guess it's a "I hold these values, I think these values are awesome, America is moving away from these values and I don't feel very comfortable" sort of thing, is it?Still, though, as the US becomes more religiously diverse (in its demographics), it makes sense that which values people choose to hold will reflect that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravin Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 If this is a prejudice I apologise.No need to apologize. Prejudice is not inherently bad, if 9 times out of 10 people mean it the way you take it one can hardly fault you for assuming the 10th one was going along.Ah... so I guess it's a "I hold these values, I think these values are awesome, America is moving away from these values and I don't feel very comfortable" sort of thing, is it?Thats how I take people's discomfort with the idea of Christians being less predominant. The idea isn't just limited to Christians, I could imagine democrat who saw that number of people who affiliated with the party decrease by 10% giving the same reaction of discomfort. They're be some differences of course but I could see the same thought process. It'd happen any time you have a group of people gathered around an ideal (or ideals) who sees that group and it's influence diminishing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elphaba Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 If it wasn't then what was the purpose of the founding fathers who admitted that our country stands on this principle? Why should those who were persecuted in other lands by national religious groups come to America?They didn't come to America. They came to the American Colonies, in the 17th and early 18th centuries.By the time America had cbecome a nation, most people came here for financial gain, not to flee religious persecution.Yes! This country was founded many times on the founding principle of being followers of Christ since Adam.The country was only founded once, and the founders were not Christians. I think LW already mentioned a looonnng deist thread.Elphaba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Geography 101.It's highly debatable that this is actually true.But if it is, it all happened under the watch of Christians.Can't blame me! Elphaba I can blame anyone I want.....and yes...I might blame you if I feel like it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trulykiwi Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Geography 101.It's highly debatable that this is actually true.But if it is, it all happened under the watch of Christians.Can't blame me! ElphabaFirstly, I disagree, yes we all know there have been disasters since the dawn of time. But the US has gone beyond ridiculous. It is sure fire!Secondly, it is only debatable to you, and it is very evident to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleWyvern Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Firstly, I disagree, yes we all know there have been disasters since the dawn of time. But the US has gone beyond ridiculous. It is sure fire!Secondly, it is only debatable to you, and it is very evident to me.Can you show that all natural disasters in the US have been in a sharp increase in recent years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trulykiwi Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Can you show that all natural disasters in the US have been in a sharp increase in recent years?Oh darn, maybe I am WRONG! There hasn't been a disaster since last week!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elphaba Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Firstly, I disagree, yes we all know there have been disasters since the dawn of time. But the US has gone beyond ridiculous. It is sure fire!What disasters?Secondly, it is only debatable to you, and it is very evident to me.Of course it is.Elphaba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elphaba Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 I can blame anyone I want.....and yes...I might blame you if I feel like itWhatever gets you through the night . . . is all right . . .by me.Elphaba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleWyvern Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Oh darn, maybe I am WRONG! There hasn't been a disaster since last week!!That wasn't what I was asking. I was asking if you had any data evidence that natural disasters have gone "beyond ridiculous" in the US, as I'd like to look at the data out of curiosity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravin Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 It isn't data but my understanding is that hurricanes were getting worse. Of course the theory around the scientific community is global warming not rampant unrighteousness. Though wouldn't that make an interesting front cover for Scientific American? *Goes a googling*NASA here talks about them getting worse, so it seems my memory wasn't playing tricks on me (yeah!) but interestingly points out they are getting fewer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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