Can You Be Lds And Not Believe In ...

[ChicagoGuy]

Joself Smith or the BOM ? Juts a question for the members here.

I have come to the realization that the BOM and JS at least IMO are fraudulent. To me there is just too much evidence againt and the only things that support them seem at least to me like it's grasping at straws to try and explain somehting out the air. The argument - if somehting bears good fruit it's true doesn't hold water with me anymore as many things bear good fruit but that doesn't make all the churches true or mean any other church is false.

What i can say is I very much agree with the LDS church structure and the morals that it stands behind -- though i from time to time struggle with a few. I greatly appreciate the fellowshipping and how the family is so much the focus of the church. Actually after I have thought about it for some time do not mind staying in the church even though i think the way I do. I will admit paying tithing will be a bit painfull now .

Back to my question -- can you be LDS without believing in those 2 things ?

[Jenda]

My considered opinion (not being LDS, and all) would be that if you don't feel like you have to compromise what you do believe to remain in fellowship with the church, and if it doesn't alter plans that you have made in a marriage covenant in any way, then there shouldn't be a problem.

However, for instance, if you and your wife got married under the assumption that you and she would go through the temple, etc., and she has not changed her beliefs, that is something you need to take into consideration.

I don't know your personal situation, that was just an example of how your decision could impact someone else.

[ChicagoGuy]

we were married in the temple already.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by ChicagoGuy@Mar 7 2005, 10:01 AM

Joself Smith or the BOM  ?    Juts a question for the members here.

I have come to the realization that the BOM and JS at least IMO are fraudulent.    To me there is just too much evidence againt and the only things that support them seem at least to me like it's grasping at straws to try and explain somehting out the air.  The argument - if somehting bears good fruit it's true doesn't hold water with me anymore as many things bear good fruit but that doesn't make all the churches true or mean any other church is false. 

What i can say is I very much agree with the LDS church structure and the morals that it stands behind -- though i from time to time struggle with a few.  I greatly appreciate the fellowshipping and how the family is so much the focus of the church.  Actually after I have thought about it for some time  do not mind staying in the church even though i think the way I do.    I will admit paying tithing will be a bit painfull now .

Back to my question -- can you be LDS without believing in those 2 things ?

Too bad you couldn't have a little chat with JS yourself.

[pushka]

I tried to address this situation, in a slightly different way, a few weeks ago...I fear that my question was worded a bit awkwardly and I also suggested that maybe there already were many members of the LDS who felt the way you do, and are just staying with the church because of fear of upsetting family, friends, or because they enjoyed the social aspects of life within the church...unfortunately the debate didn't really get off the ground!!

I hope that you and your family can continue to be happy together whatever decision you make, and wish you the best of luck in overcoming any personal problems you may encounter if your current state of beliefs compromises any of the callings or ordinances that your family may have coming their way in the future...(sorry I am so terrible at wording these things sometimes...so clumsy!! I hope you get the message.)

[Jenda]

Originally posted by ChicagoGuy@Mar 7 2005, 09:33 AM

we were married in the temple already.

What is her take on the situation? Have you discussed it with her?

[ChicagoGuy]

Originally posted by Jenda+Mar 7 2005, 02:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jenda @ Mar 7 2005, 02:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--ChicagoGuy@Mar 7 2005, 09:33 AM

we were married in the temple already.

What is her take on the situation? Have you discussed it with her?

thats not really an option for me

[Jenda]

Originally posted by ChicagoGuy+Mar 8 2005, 05:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ChicagoGuy @ Mar 8 2005, 05:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Jenda@Mar 7 2005, 02:24 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--ChicagoGuy@Mar 7 2005, 09:33 AM

we were married in the temple already.

What is her take on the situation? Have you discussed it with her?

thats not really an option for me

You don't think you can confide your concerns to your wife? Is your marriage only solid if it is based on your continued belief in the church?

[Randy Johnson]

Originally posted by ChicagoGuy+Mar 8 2005, 06:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ChicagoGuy @ Mar 8 2005, 06:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Jenda@Mar 7 2005, 02:24 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--ChicagoGuy@Mar 7 2005, 09:33 AM

we were married in the temple already.

What is her take on the situation? Have you discussed it with her?

thats not really an option for me

Hello Chicagoguy!

To answer your original question...my response would be, yes...you could remain a member of the church...go through the motions etc. In the end your membership and even your Temple marriage will not enable you to enter the Celestial Kingdom with your family.

If you feel that JS and the BoM is fraudulent then you should acknowledge those feelings honestly and openly with your wife. If you dont you will end up living a lie and it will eventually destroy you. Better to be honest about it now and take positive steps in whatever direction you and your wife decide.

But, as far as the church is concerned....if you truly in your heart of hearts feel this way...in the end, your membership will have availed you nothing.

Read Section 76.

I want you to know I do offer these thoughts to you with sincere intentions...and with love. I just feel that you wanted to be spoken plainly to. Thats the reality of it.

Now....it must be remembered that if you stay a member..and just go through the motions...there is always the possibility that at some point down the line that your testimony will return..that you will be strong in the faith. I dont want you to think that the church gives up on it's members. You know we don't.

My only point is that if when you die...you still feel this way...and you were lukewarm and not valiant in the testimony of Christ and his restored gospel...its at that point that I refer you back to the first 3 paragraphs of this post!

You have some major league fasting and praying to do my good brother! So get after it!!!! Take care and God bless you in your search for peace!

randy

[Fatboy]

Originally posted by Randy Johnson+Mar 8 2005, 10:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Randy Johnson @ Mar 8 2005, 10:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -ChicagoGuy@Mar 8 2005, 06:31 PM

Originally posted by -Jenda@Mar 7 2005, 02:24 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--ChicagoGuy@Mar 7 2005, 09:33 AM

we were married in the temple already.

What is her take on the situation? Have you discussed it with her?

thats not really an option for me

Hello Chicagoguy!

To answer your original question...my response would be, yes...you could remain a member of the church...go through the motions etc. In the end your membership and even your Temple marriage will not enable you to enter the Celestial Kingdom with your family.

If you feel that JS and the BoM is fraudulent then you should acknowledge those feelings honestly and openly with your wife. If you dont you will end up living a lie and it will eventually destroy you. Better to be honest about it now and take positive steps in whatever direction you and your wife decide.

But, as far as the church is concerned....if you truly in your heart of hearts feel this way...in the end, your membership will have availed you nothing.

Read Section 76.

I want you to know I do offer these thoughts to you with sincere intentions...and with love. I just feel that you wanted to be spoken plainly to. Thats the reality of it.

Now....it must be remembered that if you stay a member..and just go through the motions...there is always the possibility that at some point down the line that your testimony will return..that you will be strong in the faith. I dont want you to think that the church gives up on it's members. You know we don't.

My only point is that if when you die...you still feel this way...and you were lukewarm and not valiant in the testimony of Christ and his restored gospel...its at that point that I refer you back to the first 3 paragraphs of this post!

You have some major league fasting and praying to do my good brother! So get after it!!!! Take care and God bless you in your search for peace!

randy

First off why would sharing your feelings not be an option?

[Cal]

Originally posted by ChicagoGuy@Mar 7 2005, 09:01 AM

Joself Smith or the BOM ? Juts a question for the members here.

I have come to the realization that the BOM and JS at least IMO are fraudulent. To me there is just too much evidence againt and the only things that support them seem at least to me like it's grasping at straws to try and explain somehting out the air. The argument - if somehting bears good fruit it's true doesn't hold water with me anymore as many things bear good fruit but that doesn't make all the churches true or mean any other church is false.

What i can say is I very much agree with the LDS church structure and the morals that it stands behind -- though i from time to time struggle with a few. I greatly appreciate the fellowshipping and how the family is so much the focus of the church. Actually after I have thought about it for some time do not mind staying in the church even though i think the way I do. I will admit paying tithing will be a bit painfull now .

Back to my question -- can you be LDS without believing in those 2 things ?

You can join the Reform Mormons. They claim to support the church and want to continue to attend and be counted among the faithful, but they insist on the freedom to question, think and be of independent mind--and not feel obligated to buy the "company" line, hook line and sinker. They have a web site--look it up.

[Cal]

As to the question of whether you can remain a mormon----as long as you don't become a public pain in the ###### of the church, no one is likely to take your name off the rolls. In fact, by the stories I hear, getting your name off the church rolls is a really challenge in and of itself.

[Meridiani]

Originally posted by ChicagoGuy+Mar 8 2005, 06:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ChicagoGuy @ Mar 8 2005, 06:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Jenda@Mar 7 2005, 02:24 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--ChicagoGuy@Mar 7 2005, 09:33 AM

we were married in the temple already.

What is her take on the situation? Have you discussed it with her?

thats not really an option for me

If you are a convert and she was born into it, it seems that would have the possibility of becoming a sort of "wedge", for the two of you: simply because you, yourself, may have a "previous system of belief" to go back to--whereas, she would feel (quite possibly) that she has no such other recourse, when it comes to religion.

[Meridiani]

Originally posted by Fatboy+Mar 10 2005, 09:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Fatboy @ Mar 10 2005, 09:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Randy Johnson@Mar 8 2005, 10:41 PM

Originally posted by -ChicagoGuy@Mar 8 2005, 06:31 PM

Originally posted by -Jenda@Mar 7 2005, 02:24 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--ChicagoGuy@Mar 7 2005, 09:33 AM

we were married in the temple already.

What is her take on the situation? Have you discussed it with her?

thats not really an option for me

Hello Chicagoguy!

To answer your original question...my response would be, yes...you could remain a member of the church...go through the motions etc. In the end your membership and even your Temple marriage will not enable you to enter the Celestial Kingdom with your family.

If you feel that JS and the BoM is fraudulent then you should acknowledge those feelings honestly and openly with your wife. If you dont you will end up living a lie and it will eventually destroy you. Better to be honest about it now and take positive steps in whatever direction you and your wife decide.

But, as far as the church is concerned....if you truly in your heart of hearts feel this way...in the end, your membership will have availed you nothing.

Read Section 76.

I want you to know I do offer these thoughts to you with sincere intentions...and with love. I just feel that you wanted to be spoken plainly to. Thats the reality of it.

Now....it must be remembered that if you stay a member..and just go through the motions...there is always the possibility that at some point down the line that your testimony will return..that you will be strong in the faith. I dont want you to think that the church gives up on it's members. You know we don't.

My only point is that if when you die...you still feel this way...and you were lukewarm and not valiant in the testimony of Christ and his restored gospel...its at that point that I refer you back to the first 3 paragraphs of this post!

You have some major league fasting and praying to do my good brother! So get after it!!!! Take care and God bless you in your search for peace!

randy

First off why would sharing your feelings not be an option?

I agree. NOT sharing one's feelings (in an honest and open married environment) is a prescription for disaster, in and of itself: unless one or the other or both of you are just not honest or open: in which case, a breakdown in communication--a "breach"--will already have occurred, anyway!

If communication is not open between you, I suggest talking with a competent (not LDS) psychologist.

PS: Sorry, but I have heard bad stories about LDS psychologists: who are--naturally--hired by the Church and who use psychology to "promote the LDS agenda". You need a very impartial 'disinterested' (someone who is not personally "invested", in the religion) observer.

[Meridiani]

Originally posted by Cal@Mar 12 2005, 04:22 PM

As to the question of whether you can remain a mormon----as long as you don't become a public pain in the ###### of the church, no one is likely to take your name off the rolls. In fact, by the stories I hear, getting your name off the church rolls is a really challenge in and of itself.

I'd like to comment, here. I have heard stories, too.

(Actually, the stories I've "heard" are not heresay, but directly from individuals: and, it is now easier to do than in the past). (Just an observation, here).