Conversion Story

[Snow]

http://newsnet.byu.edu/story.cfm/54667

[Maureen]

Originally posted by Snow@Mar 10 2005, 12:09 AM

http://newsnet.byu.edu/story.cfm/54667

The links not working.

M.

[Guest curvette]

This guy's baptism is a literal fulfillment of D&C 109:70? Uh, okay...

[Maureen]

I'm more curious as to which ancestor this Mike Kennedy is related to. If they were part of the RLDS, then it's probably one of JS's sons - which one?

M.

Editing to say the link's working now! :)

[Jenda]

Too bad he didn't try to honor or investigate his family's views, being they were RLDS.

[Randy Johnson]

Originally posted by Jenda@Mar 11 2005, 03:07 PM

Too bad he didn't try to honor or investigate his family's views, being they were RLDS.

Dawn,

Why would that matter when he already had a testimony of the truthfulness of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints?

randy

[john doe]

Originally posted by Jenda@Mar 11 2005, 02:07 PM

Too bad he didn't try to honor or investigate his family's views, being they were RLDS.

Why all this negativity? You should be happy he finally found the gospel, not offended that he doesn't join a church JS wouldn't recognize today.

[Maureen]

Originally posted by john doe@Mar 12 2005, 07:27 AM

....not offended that he doesn't join a church JS wouldn't recognize today.

But he did join a church JS wouldn't recognize today. The LDS church today is quite different from what it was in JS's time.

M.

[Outshined]

Yeah, we have electricity and everything...

[Jenda]

Originally posted by john doe+Mar 12 2005, 07:27 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (john doe @ Mar 12 2005, 07:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Mar 11 2005, 02:07 PM

Too bad he didn't try to honor or investigate his family's views, being they were RLDS.

Why all this negativity? You should be happy he finally found the gospel, not offended that he doesn't join a church JS wouldn't recognize today.

Well, he found a gospel, I wouldn't necessarily say he found the gospel. Because, as Maureen pointed out, it is quite different than the original restored gospel, and if he really loved and honored his family, he would have at least researched the RLDS and come to understand why they chose that instead of the Utah branch.

IMHO

[Outshined]

Did I type in rldstalk.com by accident? Of course a member of that sect would think he went "wrong".

This is LDS Talk; hence the name. And perhaps some here hold the same opinion of the RLDS doctrines.

How ironic is it that a moderator of LDS Talk tells us that we do not have the Gospel?

Next you'll be calling us a cult.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Maureen+Mar 12 2005, 10:07 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Maureen @ Mar 12 2005, 10:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--john doe@Mar 12 2005, 07:27 AM

....not offended that he doesn't join a church JS wouldn't recognize today.

But he did join a church JS wouldn't recognize today. The LDS church today is quite different from what it was in JS's time.

M.

The Holy Ghost is the same. Christ is the Same. The church organization of 12 apostles and a prophet are the same.

Of course if you are saying the church is different from when it only had six members and hadn't grown in knowledge and order line upon line etc. ~ then yes it is much different today because it has continue to be a "living Church of Christ" and therefore continues to grow and develop just like a baby isn't the same as the old man 80 years later ~ but still he is ~ right?

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Outshined@Mar 12 2005, 07:25 PM

Did I type in rldstalk.com by accident? Of course a member of that sect would think he went "wrong".

This is LDS Talk; hence the name. And perhaps some here hold the same opinion of the RLDS doctrines.

How ironic is it that a moderator of LDS Talk tells us that we do not have the Gospel?

Next you'll be calling us a cult.

I'm sorry, I forgot to include that that was my opinion, so I edited my post to put that in there. B)

But now, if I called you all a cult, what would that make me?

[john doe]

Well, he found a gospel, I wouldn't necessarily say he found the gospel.

I would.

  Because, as Maureen pointed out, it is quite different than the original restored gospel, and if he really loved and honored his family, he would have at least researched the RLDS and come to understand why they chose that instead of the Utah branch.

Oh? And just how has the gospel taught in the LDS different than what JS restored? I'm not talking practices, I'm talking actual gospel, or doctrine taught. I admit that I don't spend too much worrying about what the RLDS/CoC does these days, but it seems to me from what little I have heard and read that they have strayed much further from JS's teachings than the LDS have. At least we still affirm that the BoM is a major basis of our religion, whether others like it or not. From what I've read, CoCers would just as soon forget the BoM even existed. Maybe YOU personally don't believe that, but it seems to me you are in the minority of your church if you don't.

Maybe, just maybe, this guy DID research the RLDS and decided they had gone off track from what his ancestors believed, and decided that the LDS was more true to his predecessors' beliefs. I think that being jealous that a decendant of JS would choose the LDS over the CoC is being just a little bit petty. As I said before, you should be happy that this guy found the gospel instead of being mad that he doesn't see things the same way you do.

[Jenda]

Why in the world do you think I am mad? I am just stating that I felt he should have honored his ancestors by searching things out.

And you are right. He might have done just that, but the article doesn't state that he did. I think that if he had, and decided to join the LDS church anyway, they would have slam-dunked that fact. But it wasn't even mentioned.

[john doe]

Originally posted by Jenda@Mar 12 2005, 10:16 PM

Why in the world do you think I am mad? I am just stating that I felt he should have honored his ancestors by searching things out.

And you are right. He might have done just that, but the article doesn't state that he did. I think that if he had, and decided to join the LDS church anyway, they would have slam-dunked that fact. But it wasn't even mentioned.

Not necessarily. You see, like it or not, in the mainstream LDS community, CoC is barely more than a blip on the radar screen. Most LDS don't even know that they changed their name from RLDS, and those that do figure that CoC is continually moving to make itself more toward traditional 'Christianity' rather than touting its restorationist roots. Those moves only serve to make RLDS/CoC even more marginalized from the true gospel in the mainstream LDS view.

Like I say, RLDS/CoC rarely get a second thought for most LDS, so why would a story written by mainstream LDS people (BYU) get any mention about an insignificant (in their minds) church that they believe has strayed from its roots?

[Jenda]

Originally posted by john doe+Mar 12 2005, 10:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (john doe @ Mar 12 2005, 10:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Mar 12 2005, 10:16 PM

Why in the world do you think I am mad?  I am just stating that I felt he should have honored his ancestors by searching things out. 

And you are right.  He might have done just that, but the article doesn't state that he did.  I think that if he had, and decided to join the LDS church anyway, they would have slam-dunked that fact.  But it wasn't even mentioned.

Not necessarily. You see, like it or not, in the mainstream LDS community, CoC is barely more than a blip on the radar screen. Most LDS don't even know that they changed their name from RLDS, and those that do figure that CoC is continually moving to make itself more toward traditional 'Christianity' rather than touting its restorationist roots. Those moves only serve to make RLDS/CoC even more marginalized from the true gospel in the mainstream LDS view.

Like I say, RLDS/CoC rarely get a second thought for most LDS, so why would a story written by mainstream LDS people (BYU) get any mention about an insignificant (in their minds) church that they believe has strayed from its roots?

I realize that most LDS don't even know that the RLDS exist. However, in this case, it was very apparent that they did. If he had checked out the RLDS and decided to join the LDS anyway, it would have given the LDS much of the vindication they have desired, having one of Joseph Smith's ancestors choose the LDS over the RLDS (because I know it has rankled them for a good long time.) They would have played up that fact to no end.

[Snow]

Jenda,

You claim to know an awful lot about what Lane Stilson (the story's author) would or would not do. Prey tell where does knowledge come from?

[john doe]

I know it has rankled them for a good long time

Rankled? I don't see it. Saddened, maybe, by their differing paths, but not rankled.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by john doe@Mar 13 2005, 06:37 PM

I know it has rankled them for a good long time

Rankled? I don't see it. Saddened, maybe, by their differing paths, but not rankled.

Maybe if you went back into church history and read how BY vehemently hated Emma Smith, the Inspired Version of the Bible, etc., you would understand that "rankled" is the correct word.

[john doe]

BY vehemently hated Emma

Vehemently hated? Vehemently hated? Since you seem to be such an expert on LDS, please reference where anyone said BY hated Emma. And even if he did, #1, wouldn't he have sent Porter Rockwell to deal with her?, And #2, that was a very long time ago and I haven't seen or heard that view used or taught by LDS in my lifetime. If, and that is a big if, that view of Emma was taken, it is ancient history and hasn't been held, as far as I know, "for a good long time" as you claim. Perhaps BY was hurt by the departure of Emma, but I highly doubt he vehemently hated her. And for your information, the JS translation of the Bible is currently bound as part of our scriptures, or at least portions of it are included and referenced.

Please feel free to back up your claims that BY and LDS have even given enough thought to RLDS/CoC to bother to hate them. I stand by my point that today, at least, they don't think enough of your church to spend time on hating you and yours. RLDS/CoC is not much more than a blip on the mainstream LDS radar. If anything, they consider you to be nothing more than a non-wacko breakoff of the 'real' true church. You may not like hearing or reading that, but it is true of the LDS that I know, read, and associate with daily. I have never heard or read anyone LDS claim to hate RLDS/CoC.

[Outshined]

Originally posted by Jenda@Mar 12 2005, 10:40 PM

But now, if I called you all a cult, what would that make me?

A reformed cultist.

[Randy Johnson]

Originally posted by Jenda+Mar 13 2005, 09:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jenda @ Mar 13 2005, 09:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--john doe@Mar 13 2005, 06:37 PM

I know it has rankled them for a good long time

Rankled? I don't see it. Saddened, maybe, by their differing paths, but not rankled.

Maybe if you went back into church history and read how BY vehemently hated Emma Smith, the Inspired Version of the Bible, etc., you would understand that "rankled" is the correct word.

Dawn,

Now Sis you know that "both" Emma and BY had a very MUTUAL dislike for each other for various reasons. They were both obviously very strong willed individuals. It is no secret that to say the least there was a personality conflict.

But to say BY vehemently hated Emma is going way over the top!! The evidence doesnt not show that all. Actually, from what I have read...he personally saw to it that she was cared for financially for a time, or shall I say...there were continual offers of assistance to her. Whether or not she chose to accept the assistance I do not know.

The LDS church....has always maintained a tremendous love , respect and admiration for Emma. She fulfilled her calling to the Prophet. Whatever mistakes she made after the death of the Prophet...I for one am able to forgive and forget. She was and still is....an "Elect Lady".

For the record....there are actually several descendants of JS jr in the LDS church. This man we are discussing is not the first and only one.

Again though....the issue is whether or not this brother should have investigated the RLDS/CoC/Remnant/Restored LDS etc..etc...etc.

Again...I have to say...absolutely NOT! No need whatsoever. He was taught the gospel. He took it to the Lord. The spirit bore witness of the truth. He was baptized. There was no need for him to jump through these other hoops simply because of his family history. We all enter in at the "same" gate.

On the Center Place discussion board the talk is...once again, that "we all will just have to hang tight and wait for the Lord to come fix everything" then the Church will move forward united etc.

It's as if the members of ALL the other Restoration factions have aquieced the point that there is not a single thing they will be able to do about their current situation until the Lord comes and "sets the church in order".

This has been the watch word since the inception of the Reorganization. It just seems to me to be a built in excuse or rationalization for why every other Restoration faction has not prospered. Not one.

Now....it could be argued, as in the past....about what constitutes being "prosperous". The LDS church gets knocked because of our exponential growth..yet all the other factions wish they were growing. The LDS church gets knocked because it is financially solvent and then some, we are told that thats all the church cares about is money etc, that the Church is all about big business and not about ministering to the individual....and on and on and on.

Nothing could be further from the truth. At least in my experience in the Church.

The LDS church is properous in those areas...but, it is prosperous in the most important aspects as well, namely that it's members are growing in faith, in conviction...in service to others. They are giving more of their time and money to further the work of the Lord.

In short..the LDS church is prospering because the Lord is blessing his church. The others are not prospering because it was prophesied that they would not. That sounds harsh...but that truly is and has been from day one..the reality of it. IMO.

randy

[Jenda]

Randy, I'm sorry, but I don't believe that numbers, or whether or not the church is rich is a measuring stick for whether a church is considered the "true" church.

You must also be forgetting the scriptures that state that God's wrath will start in His own house first.

D&C 105:9a-10a RLDS (112:23-25 LDS)

9a Verily, verily I say unto you, Darkness covereth the earth, and gross darkness the minds of the people, and all flesh has become corrupt before my face.

9b Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth--a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation--and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord.

10a And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord.

[Jenda]

But to say BY vehemently hated Emma is going way over the top!! The evidence doesnt not show that all. Actually, from what I have read...he personally saw to it that she was cared for financially for a time, or shall I say...there were continual offers of assistance to her. Whether or not she chose to accept the assistance I do not know.

Excuse me, Randy, but BY tried to steal everything away from Emma in the name of the church. Please show me your proof that BY made any offers to support her. After seeing his beliefs being acted out by the Danites, I know for a fact that what you have stated is false.