Satanism?

[mountthepavement]

A true Luciferian will tell you "Satan" is a creation of the Christian world.

He will tell you that they do not worship Satan because there is no Satan.

But the true Luciferian will keep a secret back.

He believes secretly in the angelic world of gods where Lucifer is the real morning star and Jesus is the usurper.

They say that the true One will return and claim the earth as his own as lightning out of the Eastern sky and the whole earth will follow him.

They are preparing for his event even at this time.

They are the true Luciferians and they are not the silly anarchists and Satanic Rock nuts or what ever playing act out games.

They are educating your kids and leading industry and government.

Just a thought:rolleyes:

Bro. Rudick

It is new to me. Is this a widespread belief within LDS?

[mountthepavement]

She did ask:D

But that was not what she was really asking in the first place was it:p

Bro. Rudick

Who do you mean?

[FunkyTown]

It is new to me. Is this a widespread belief within LDS?

Mount? Did you actually read what Rudick said? He said that this was what Luciferians believe.

The LDS church is not that church.

[Batmanifestdestiny]

Okay, I guess I just want to know what the LDS afterlife for the bad folks is. I guess I could research it myself, but, in the interest of conversation...

Well, the only "bad places" are the Telestial Kingdom, which is "bad" because it's the lowest of the degrees of Glory, and then there's Outer Darkness, where you can't handle the presence of even the lowest glory, so you must be without any form of holy spirit, but it takes some really, really bad people to go there, as in, I'm pretty sure Hitler didn't even go there

Then again, that's all after the Judgment. Before that, there's Spirit Prison, but not many people hang there for too long, since there's so much work being done in the temples for them :) Spirit prison is pretty much just a little place for people that never saw the gospel/refused the gospel go, but like I said before, temple work frees them.

[JohnnyRudick]

Who do you mean?

I am sooooooo sorry again:mellow:

It is a good thing I don't go out on dates any more:p

I can't telll the girls from the boys:confused:

You are not a girl, your a guy:D

I meant you.

Ooops:D

Luv ya anyway;)

Bro. Rudick

[mountthepavement]

Well, the only "bad places" are the Telestial Kingdom, which is "bad" because it's the lowest of the degrees of Glory, and then there's Outer Darkness, where you can't handle the presence of even the lowest glory, so you must be without any form of holy spirit, but it takes some really, really bad people to go there, as in, I'm pretty sure Hitler didn't even go there

Then again, that's all after the Judgment. Before that, there's Spirit Prison, but not many people hang there for too long, since there's so much work being done in the temples for them :) Spirit prison is pretty much just a little place for people that never saw the gospel/refused the gospel go, but like I said before, temple work frees them.

Doesn't sound very bad.

[mountthepavement]

Mount? Did you actually read what Rudick said? He said that this was what Luciferians believe.

The LDS church is not that church.

I meant, is it widespread or part-and-parcel to believe in Luciferians? Never heard of them -- and does everybody think they are in positions of power, these conscious L worshipers?

[freckleface]

So what do they then do, and what ultimately happens to them? How would they go about worshiping Lucifer?

Are you curious or interested?

Freckles

[mountthepavement]

Are you curious or interested?

Freckles

hee, .... I dunno, they both might sound bad. I'm interested in the ideas and concepts of LDS members.

[JohnnyRudick]

I meant, is it widespread or part-and-parcel to believe in Luciferians? Never heard of them -- and does everybody think they are in positions of power, these conscious L worshipers?

Nope:rolleyes:

Just a few of us conspiracy nuts:cool:

2 Nephi 9:8 O the wisdom of God, his mercy and grace! For behold,

if the flesh should rise no more our spirits must become subject

to that angel who fell from before the presence of the Eternal

God, and became the devil, to rise no more.

2 Nephi 9:9 And our spirits must have become like unto him, and

we become devils, angels to a devil, to be shut out from the

presence of our God, and to remain with the father of lies, in

misery, like unto himself; yea, to that being who beguiled our

first parents, who transformeth himself nigh unto an angel of

light, and stirreth up the children of men unto secret

combinations of murder and all manner of secret works of

darkness.

Helaman 6:21 But behold, Satan did stir up the hearts of the more

part of the Nephites, insomuch that they did unite with those

bands of robbers, and did enter into their covenants and their

oaths, that they would protect and preserve one another in

whatsoever difficult circumstances they should be placed, that

they should not suffer for their murders, and their plunderings,

and their stealings.

Helaman 6:22 And it came to pass that they did have their signs,

yea, their secret signs, and their secret words; and this that

they might distinguish a brother who had entered into the

covenant, that whatsoever wickedness his brother should do he

should not be injured by his brother, nor by those who did belong

to his band, who had taken this covenant.

Helaman 6:23 And thus they might murder, and plunder, and steal,

and commit whoredoms and all manner of wickedness, contrary to

the laws of their country and also the laws of their God.

Helaman 6:24 And whosoever of those who belonged to their band

should reveal unto the world of their wickedness and their

abominations, should be tried, not according to the laws of their

country, but according to the laws of their wickedness, which had

been given by Gadianton and Kishkumen.

Helaman 6:25 Now behold, it is these secret oaths and covenants

which Alma commanded his son should not go forth unto the world,

lest they should be a means of bringing down the people unto

destruction.

3 Nephi 7:6 And the regulations of the government were destroyed,

because of the secret combination of the friends and kindreds of

those who murdered the prophets.

Ether 8:7 And now Jared became exceedingly sorrowful because of

the loss of the kingdom, for he had set his heart upon the

kingdom and upon the glory of the world.

Ether 8:8 Now the daughter of Jared being exceedingly expert, and

seeing the sorrows of her father, thought to devise a plan

whereby she could redeem the kingdom unto her father.

Ether 8:9 Now the daughter of Jared was exceedingly fair. And it

came to pass that she did talk with her father, and said unto

him: Whereby hath my father so much sorrow? Hath he not read the

record which our fathers brought across the great deep? Behold,

is there not an account concerning them of old, that they by

their secret plans did obtain kingdoms and great glory?

Ether 8:10 And now, therefore, let my father send for Akish, the

son of Kimnor; and behold, I am fair, and I will dance before

him, and I will please him, that he will desire me to wife;

wherefore if he shall desire of thee that ye shall give unto him

me to wife, then shall ye say: I will give her if ye will bring

unto me the head of my father, the king.

Ether 8:11 And now Omer was a friend to Akish; wherefore, when

Jared had sent for Akish, the daughter of Jared danced before him

that she pleased him, insomuch that he desired her to wife. And

it came to pass that he said unto Jared: Give her unto me to

wife.

Ether 8:12 And Jared said unto him: I will give her unto you, if

ye will bring unto me the head of my father, the king.

Ether 8:13 And it came to pass that Akish gathered in unto the

house of Jared all his kinsfolk, and said unto them: Will ye

swear unto me that ye will be faithful unto me in the thing which

I shall desire of you?

Ether 8:14 And it came to pass that they all sware unto him, by

the God of heaven, and also by the heavens, and also by the

earth, and by their heads, that whoso should vary from the

assistance which Akish desired should lose his head; and whoso

should divulge whatsoever thing Akish made known unto them, the

same should lose his life.

Ether 8:15 And it came to pass that thus they did agree with

Akish. And Akish did administer unto them the oaths which were

given by them of old who also sought power, which had been handed

down even from Cain, who was a murderer from the beginning.

Ether 8:16 And they were kept up by the power of the devil to

administer these oaths unto the people, to keep them in darkness,

to help such as sought power to gain power, and to murder, and to

plunder, and to lie, and to commit all manner of wickedness and

whoredoms.

Ether 8:17 And it was the daughter of Jared who put it into his

heart to search up these things of old; and Jared put it into the

heart of Akish; wherefore, Akish administered it unto his kindred

and friends, leading them away by fair promises to do whatsoever

thing he desired.

Ether 8:18 And it came to pass that they formed a secret

combination, even as they of old; which combination is most

abominable and wicked above all, in the sight of God;

Ether 8:19 For the Lord worketh not in secret combinations,

neither doth he will that man should shed blood, but in all

things hath forbidden it, from the beginning of man.

Ether 8:20 And now I, Moroni, do not write the manner of their

oaths and combinations, for it hath been made known unto me that

they are had among all people, and they are had among the

Lamanites.

Ether 8:21 And they have caused the destruction of this people of

whom I am now speaking, and also the destruction of the people of

Nephi.

Ether 8:22 And whatsoever nation shall uphold such secret

combinations, to get power and gain, until they shall spread over

the nation, behold, they shall be destroyed; for the Lord will

not suffer that the blood of his saints, which shall be shed by

them, shall always cry unto him from the ground for vengeance

upon them and yet he avenge them not.

Ether 8:23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that

these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent

of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations

shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain--

and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you,

yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall

upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer

these things to be.

Ether 8:24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see

these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of

your awful situation, because of this secret combination which

shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of

them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for

vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.

Ether 8:25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up

seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and

countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people,

for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies;

even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even

that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the

beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have

murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from

the beginning.

Ether 8:26 Wherefore, I, Moroni, am commanded to write these

things that evil may be done away, and that the time may come

that Satan may have no power upon the hearts of the children of

men, but that they may be persuaded to do good continually, that

they may come unto the fountain of all righteousness and be

saved.

Just a few of us conspiracy nuts:D

Bro. Rudick

[mountthepavement]

Nope:rolleyes:

Just a few of us conspiracy nuts:cool:

Just a few of us conspiracy nuts:D

Bro. Rudick

I would assume by the volume of intervening scripture (without reading it, which I will) that you are being ironic? Does that group of just a few nuts include the leadership of the LDS faith?

[JohnnyRudick]

I would assume by the volume of intervening scripture (without reading it, which I will) that you are being ironic? Does that group of just a few nuts include the leadership of the LDS faith?

I find them to be silent on such things at this time.

Bro. Rudick

[mountthepavement]

I find them to be silent on such things at this time.

Bro. Rudick

Okay, just checking.

[JohnnyRudick]

Okay, just checking.

Read the Scripture though:)

And then go back and please read the Book of Mormon for your self;)

It is your Book.

It is America's Book.

Bro. Rudick

[FunkyTown]

I am very uncomfortable with the word choice that Rudick used to describe the leadership's position on what he had said.

The answer should have been, "No. The LDS leadership does not teach that Devil worshippers run the world."

Personally? I would say that bad men tend to run the world because they're better at grabbing power. The things that are required to gain power are usually not the things that allow a man to be good.

Do they worship the devil? I would sincerely doubt it, though their actions show what they really find important.

[mountthepavement]

Read the Scripture though:)

And then go back and please read the Book of Mormon for your self;)

It is your Book.

It is America's Book.

Bro. Rudick

What if I'm not American?

[mountthepavement]

Read the Scripture though:)

And then go back and please read the Book of Mormon for your self;)

It is your Book.

It is America's Book.

Bro. Rudick

Also, if I asked you to read a particular text, would you give it a shot? Hopefully, it wouldn't be too overtly satanic, though.

Besides: it is a long book. I've read a bit, started chapters here and there.

[Dravin]

What if I'm not American?

Wherefore, it is an abridgment of the record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites—Written to the Lamanites, who are a remnant of the house of Israel; and also to Jew and Gentile—Written by way of commandment, and also by the spirit of prophecy and of revelation—Written and sealed up, and hid up unto the Lord, that they might not be destroyed—To come forth by the gift and power of God unto the interpretation thereof—Sealed by the hand of Moroni, and hid up unto the Lord, to come forth in due time by way of the Gentile—The interpretation thereof by the gift of God.

So you're covered pretty much no matter what (assuming we go with the Jew = Descendant of Israel usage as opposed to the more literal Jew = Decendant of Judah). :)

[mountthepavement]

So you're covered pretty much no matter what (assuming we go with the Jew = Descendant of Israel usage as opposed to the more literal Jew = Decendant of Judah). :)

Yeah, I just didn't think "America's book" was a very good selling point. But maybe there is some truth to the notion? Some might argue.

[JohnnyRudick]

I am very uncomfortable with the word choice that Rudick used to describe the leadership's position on what he had said.

The answer should have been, "No. The LDS leadership does not teach that Devil worshipers run the world."

Personally? I would say that bad men tend to run the world because they're better at grabbing power. The things that are required to gain power are usually not the things that allow a man to be good.

Do they worship the devil? I would sincerely doubt it, though their actions show what they really find important.

My thoughts are by no means that they "run the world?.

Influence the way things tend to go? Yes, they try and many times I believe succeed.

But-

I said that they can be no doubt found rather in positions of power rather then

putting out some silly so-called Satanic music piece or writing on some railroad

trestle somewhere.

If Satan actually has people who worship him and the Scriptures which I believe says he does) and made a pact with him I believe as the Scripture teaches, he would place them in positions where he would serve Satan the most good.

If you have studied the backgrounds of the people who fired up the mobs against Joseph Smith, the controversy surrounding the death of Captain William Morgan in the early 1800's and his allegations which led to his death, the warnings of President George Washington earlier, the warnings in the Bible and the Book of Mormon particularly, it would come as no surprise to you that if there are any true devel worshipers where you might find them.

I am not alone in this and I wonder why I am left hanging?

Well;)

It is not as bad as some make it sound.

Cooler heads most of the time prevail and we do not slide so fast:D

Bro. Rudick

[JohnnyRudick]

What if I'm not American?

That's alright:)

'Cause even though it is an American Book, it is another testamony to the World

That Jesus is indeed the Christ of God and Savior to the World.

He is your Savior.

Accept Him for now is a good time.

Would I read something you asked me to read?

No, not particularly.

You came to a Mormon site and it is no surprise that you would at

some point be asked to read Scripture from one of our Standard works of the Church.

Bro. Rudick

Edited June 17, 2009 by JohnnyRudick

[JohnnyRudick]

Yeah, I just didn't think "America's book" was a very good selling point. But maybe there is some truth to the notion? Some might argue.

"American Book" in the same since that the Bible is an "Asian Book".

Actually

I have been praying for years that the General Authorities would put out a statement

on this subject but I guess the time is not yet right for it.

I have looked for it ever since the mid 70's

Most of us would rather the subject would never come up.

Anymore I try not to talk about it unless asked, for it is not as well accepted and discussed today

as it was then.

I do not ever remember it discussed outside Church members except a very few.

You mention it today and you are talked down and even shut down, even by fellow brethren.

I guess we have grown:)

Bro. Rudick

Edited June 17, 2009 by JohnnyRudick
Afterthought;)

[mountthepavement]

You came to a Mormon site and it is no surprise that you would at

some point be asked to read Scripture from one of our Standard works of the Church.

Bro. Rudick

Fair enough. But I can still resent it. I just don't like being referred away in a general direction when we are having an immediate discussion. Of course it would be beneficial and sensible to supplement learning about LDS on an online forum with reading its scriptures. It's obvious.

I would like to refer you away to something long and written in a different context than the present discussion, but I can understand your refusal. Similarly, I don't say that I refuse in general to read the BoM: only when you tell me. :)

[mountthepavement]

"American Book" in the same since that the Bible is an "Asian Book".

Actually

I have been praying for years that the General Authorities would put out a statement

on this subject but I guess the time is not yet right for it.

I have looked for it ever since the mid 70's

Most of us would rather the subject would never come up.

Anymore I try not to talk about it unless asked, for it is not as well accepted and discussed today

as it was then.

I do not ever remember it discussed outside Church members except a very few.

You mention it today and you are talked down and even shut down, even by fellow brethren.

I guess we have grown:)

Bro. Rudick

Really, calling it "America" is an issue? That surprises me. Can you give me more information about this?

[mountthepavement]

Read the Scripture though:)

And then go back and please read the Book of Mormon for your self;)

It is your Book.

It is America's Book.

Bro. Rudick

I'm not really angry though, since I can see you are just enthusiastically referring me to something you hold dear and important! Nothing wrong with that.