The "pamphlet"!

[Jason]

So my wife has recently asked to have her name removed from the records of the LDS church. She sent her letter both to the local bishop, and to church headquarters in SLC.

No big deal, so far so good.

Then yesterday we get this letter from SLC headquarters stating that they're processing her request, but with the letter they send this little 1 page pamphlet under the picture and signatures of the First Presidency. The pamphlet is about 4 short paragraphs, and is directed toward someone who's left for only one reason. Apparently Salt Lake thinks that the only people who want their names removed are the people who were "offended" in some way. It then states that they're welcome back to "feel the joy" they once felt at any time.

Why on earth do they think that the only people who leave are the ones who were offended? Im not saying that there aren't those who leave for this reason, but it seems that the vast majority of people I've met who are ex-mo's left for other (shall I say more "valid") reasons.

Hmm..

[Guest lt]

I think thats what they hope....That is was as simply as tht rather than someone just not wanting to be a member.......

Jason where are you from again?

laureltree

[Jason]

I think thats what they hope....That is was as simply as tht rather than someone just not wanting to be a member.......

Ok. If it were me writing that pamphlet, I would have said: "If you were offended, we're sorry. If you have doctrinal disagreements, we'd like to have a heart to heart talk."

Or something like that. At least give validation to the fact that many of us leave because of credibility issues with Mormonism. Not 'cause someone "offended" us.

Jason where are you from again?

Laurel, you're not going to send the Danites after me, right?

Im in Evanston,Wyoming. It's just over an hour drive east of Salt Lake City on I-80.

[Dale]

Hi,

Jason I am soon to be baptized Community of Christ. I thought the date was May 26th but it's June 26th. Since I was baptized as a youth as LDS I felt it neccessary for me to send them off a letter. I never fit in as an LDS person the Reorganized LDS was closer to what I believed. As a kid because of the extreme emphasis on standards my sins were to great for the LDS. I like my coffee for example. But my other reason for leaving is I felt lonely at every LDS gathering I went to. Now I feel like part of a family. Sounds like the thoughts of the item was nice. Try not to feel bitter towards the LDS leadership they mean well.

I never have met an LDS Bishop that I didn't like. Other than a few bad apples in any institution LDS leaders are a kind & wonderful people.

Personally I have read every anti-Mormon book & tract I can get my hands on. I have listened to James Whites Witnessing To Mormons Seminar. I would not tell people to leave over any doctrinal concern I am aware of. I have doctrines I prefer but that's just me. I actively participate on the ] message board. I just love the work FAIR is doing to help people resolve their doubts & questions about Mormonism.

They can't contact you if you told them not to. So it's hard for them to try & have a heart to hart talk with you. But the FAIR boards open to you & your wife if you want to participate. The articles are there for you to compare with the concerns you left over. I wish you both well.

With me maybe we were decieved for leaving the faith. I prefer to think humbly about my life's decisions.

Sincerely,

Dale

[Guest lt]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@May 19 2005, 11:52 AM

I think thats what they hope....That is was as simply as tht rather than someone just not wanting to be a member.......

Ok. If it were me writing that pamphlet, I would have said: "If you were offended, we're sorry. If you have doctrinal disagreements, we'd like to have a heart to heart talk."

Or something like that. At least give validation to the fact that many of us leave because of credibility issues with Mormonism. Not 'cause someone "offended" us.

Jason where are you from again?

Laurel, you're not going to send the Danites after me, right?

Im in Evanston,Wyoming. It's just over an hour drive east of Salt Lake City on I-80.

No..... . I just remember talking before and its been awhile since I have posted becaused me moved again.....................YES>>>>AGAIN> so i was trying to put other conversations with peoples names. no biggie

[Jason]

Dale,

Good luck with the move to the CoC. Say Hi to your stake president for me. She's real nice.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Jason@May 19 2005, 10:03 AM

Why on earth do they think that the only people who leave are the ones who were offended? Im not saying that there aren't those who leave for this reason, but it seems that the vast majority of people I've met who are ex-mo's left for other (shall I say more "valid") reasons.

Hmm..

I think is probably because most the ones who go to the trouble of sending in formal resignation letters act offended in some way. I am thinking mostly of those I have met on message boards who claim to have sent letters, including yourself (at times), seem to be angry or tweaked or offended - as if the Church or someone in the Church has done something horrific to them.

[Jason]

Snow,

I think is probably because most the ones who go to the trouble of sending in formal resignation letters act offended in some way. I am thinking mostly of those I have met on message boards who claim to have sent letters, including yourself (at times), seem to be angry or tweaked or offended - as if the Church or someone in the Church has done something horrific to them.

I can see your point. But you have to realize that without sending a rather harshly worded letter, the local bishop thinks he's doing you a favor by not acting on your wishes. Somehow, in his mind, leaving your name on the rolls of the Church might just keep God from sending you to hell.

Let's face it, if a Mormon truly believes that theirs is the true church, do they really want to let someone leave the fold and lead a life headed towards damnation?

[Snow]

Originally posted by Jason@May 24 2005, 08:19 AM

Let's face it, if a Mormon truly believes that theirs is the true church, do they really want to let someone leave the fold and lead a life headed towards damnation?

No and that's why I think that LDS reluctance to cut the disenchanted loose is an act of good faith. It is kind of a selfless act on the Church's part. Other than they don't want people to lose heavenly blessings, there is no reason to not release soon-to-be exmo's easily.

[begood2]

Jason,

IMO~

I think Snow's answer is an accurate assessment.

[Outshined]

Originally posted by Snow+May 24 2005, 11:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ May 24 2005, 11:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Jason@May 24 2005, 08:19 AM

Let's face it, if a Mormon truly believes that theirs is the true church, do they really want to let someone leave the fold and lead a life headed towards damnation?

No and that's why I think that LDS reluctance to cut the disenchanted loose is an act of good faith. It is kind of a selfless act on the Church's part. Other than they don't want people to lose heavenly blessings, there is no reason to not release soon-to-be exmo's easily.

I'll echo that. If a son or daughter says they are leaving home and will never be back, you'd still make every effort to tell them that you loved them and would be there when they wanted to return.

[Guest lt]

I would hope that there is always a door open, even though at times we may not want something in our lives...sometimes it changes when the anger fades and we realize what went wrong

[Snow]

Originally posted by Heavenly_Homemaker@May 25 2005, 12:56 PM

I would hope that there is always a door open, even though at times we may not want something in our lives...sometimes it changes when the anger fades and we realize what went wrong

My door is always open for Jason though there will be a $15 cover charge.

[Jason]

My door is always open for Jason though there will be a $15 cover charge.

Ya got any Budweiser?

[Randy Johnson]

Originally posted by Dale@May 22 2005, 10:47 PM

Hi,

Jason I am soon to be baptized Community of Christ. I thought the date was May 26th but it's June 26th. Since I was baptized as a youth as LDS I felt it neccessary for me to send them off a letter. I never fit in as an LDS person the Reorganized LDS was closer to what I believed. As a kid because of the extreme emphasis on standards my sins were to great for the LDS. I like my coffee for example. But my other reason for leaving is I felt lonely at every LDS gathering I went to. Now I feel like part of a family. Sounds like the thoughts of the item was nice. Try not to feel bitter towards the LDS leadership they mean well.

I never have met an LDS Bishop that I didn't like. Other than a few bad apples in any institution LDS leaders are a kind & wonderful people.

Personally I have read every anti-Mormon book & tract I can get my hands on. I have listened to James Whites Witnessing To Mormons Seminar. I would not tell people to leave over any doctrinal concern I am aware of. I have doctrines I prefer but that's just me. I actively participate on the ] message board. I just love the work FAIR is doing to help people resolve their doubts & questions about Mormonism.

They can't contact you if you told them not to. So it's hard for them to try & have a heart to hart talk with you. But the FAIR boards open to you & your wife if you want to participate. The articles are there for you to compare with the concerns you left over. I wish you both well.

With me maybe we were decieved for leaving the faith. I prefer to think humbly about my life's decisions.

Sincerely,

Dale

Hi Dale!

Good luck with your upcoming baptism into the CoC. I am not sure how to say this without sounding crass, but....I think you will find that being a member of the CoC WILL be much, much easier than staying the course in the LDS church.

As you know...the LDS emphasizes high moral and ethical standards. I would think thats a good thing. The church emphasizes obedience to gospel principles and the importance of following the Prophets and Apostles. Again...a good thing.

As a member of the CoC...you will find that you will basically have the freedom to do or believe anything you want. Is this a good thing? You will find that the favorite color within the CoC is "gray". You will find that the word "unity" is frowned upon. You will find that "confusion" is the norm rather than the exception.

I say this as a lifelong resident of Independence, Mo.....I have seen this over and over and over again.

Dale, please....do not misunderstand my intent here. I am in no way trying to discourage you from joining the CoC. I just want you to fully understand what to expect.

I have just communicated with a friend of mine who recently joined the CoC...and he has had enough and is coming back into the LDS church. Like you....he had/has issues with certain things within the LDS church...but, he has gained some invaluable insight and perspective from "within" the CoC....and it is not what it appears to be.

Dale....good luck to you! Yes....I am sincere when I say that! No sarcasm intended or implied.

randy

[Dale]

Hi,

Randy thanks for your thoughts. The Community of Christ Church is not perfect. If you don't like my church that's your issue. I don't dislike the LDS Church. I just don't believe its a perfect church. No church is perfect.

I always found the LDS church overbearing & rigid. I was always lonely in a crowd of LDS people. I never felt accepted. I never felt all the beliefs were true. I never felt for fear that I could ever be honest about who I was or what I believed.

The only reason the LDS Church has total unity is because they have no sayso in the church conferences.

I was willing to stick with a restoration church because I detest anti-Mormon material. I have belief the Book of Mormon is true. I am an active supporter of FAIR.

http://www.fairlds.org

Sincerely,

Dale

[Randy Johnson]

Originally posted by Dale@May 27 2005, 03:40 PM

Hi,

Randy thanks for your thoughts. The Community of Christ Church is not perfect. If you don't like my church that's your issue. I don't dislike the LDS Church. I just don't believe its a perfect church. No church is perfect.

I always found the LDS church overbearing & rigid. I was always lonely in a crowd of LDS people. I never felt accepted. I never felt all the beliefs were true. I never felt for fear that I could ever be honest about who I was or what I believed.

The only reason the LDS Church has total unity is because they have no sayso in the church conferences.

I was willing to stick with a restoration church because I detest anti-Mormon material. I have belief the Book of Mormon is true. I am an active supporter of FAIR.

http://www.fairlds.org

Sincerely,

Dale

Hi Dale,

I appreciate your thoughts as well.

It's not a matter of "not liking" the CoC. As I said...there are many, many wonderful people to be found there. Thats not the issue to me.

The issue with me is the total lack of doctrinal unity. There is confusion about...well, just about everything. Perhaps doctrinal problems are not a big issue with you personally. If it's just finding a place to go to feel more at home socially...then perhaps you have chosen well.

I dont know how old you are...but, I have been a member all of my 48yrs. I am pretty outspoken, outgoing etc. Why is it that I have never seen this "rigidness" with which you speak?

I am not sure what you mean by "overbearing" in the church. Could you elaborate on that for me?

As far as the CoC teachings with respect to "common consent"....you will find out in short order...that the very nature of how they conduct it produces division, confusion, infighting....you name it....it's there.

All one has to do is to look at what has transpired already in the CoC during this "transition" period. Confusion abounds on every side.

Dale, you mentioned that you never felt that you could be honest about what you believed. I am sorry and saddened to hear that.

Would you mind sharing what you believe with me? I for one, give you my word...I will not disrespect your beliefs and thoughts on these things. I am just sincerely curious as to what you believe and why.

randy

[Dale]

Hi,

Things are either don in the LDS Church their way or you can't be in good standing. I have had lots of committments thrown at me that I didn't feel I could agree to. Everybody outside the LDs Church see's it as a strict church.

I am happy not everybody in the Community of Christ has to agree. Yes the church could be more united but unity doesn't make a church true. I looked at LDS doctrine not just the unity they have. If others are confused about doctrine that's not my issue. Myself & a friend started a small group Book of Mormon study. Skepticism was rampant in the LDS Church in regards to the Book of Mormon at one point in the 20th century. (Book of Mormon Authorship Revisited, Edited by Noel B. Reynolds pg.2) Yes there are many Community of Christ decieved by Signature Book's type of scholarship regarding the Book of Mormon. Van Hale a popular LDS radio show host & apologist has expressed his doubts about Book of Mormon Historicity? At one point I shared Van Hales Sentiments but FARMs scholarship changed my directions.

The Jews were confused on many issues because they were sinners. The early Christians had apostles & they struggled with apostate ideas. I am not sure denominational disputes or confusion means the church isn't true.

About the only area I feel the Community of Christ has need of reform is the hom-sexual idea liberal protestantism sometimes encourages. I heard that they started the listening circles on this & they havn't been well recieved. Common consent can protect the church from eccentric impulses of the leaders. It doesn't always work but even Joseph Smith Jr. himself admitted in 1829 some revelations were of God, others of men, and others of the Devil.

I am convinced Brigham Young wasn't misquoted or misinterpreted on his Adam God idea. So that means LDS from 1852 until Brigham Youngs death lacked pure prophetic leadership. Likewise I can believe President W. Grant McMurray was a good Prophet but some of his ideas on homo-sexuality were wrong. Hopefully President Stephen Veazey when he is ordained will be wiser in that area.

Sincerely,

Dale

[Snow]

Originally posted by Dale@May 28 2005, 03:00 PM

I am convinced Brigham Young wasn't misquoted or misinterpreted on his Adam God idea. So that means LDS from 1852 until Brigham Youngs death lacked pure prophetic leadership. Likewise I can believe President W. Grant McMurray was a good Prophet but some of his ideas on homo-sexuality were wrong. Hopefully President Stephen Veazey when he is ordained will be wiser in that area.

Sincerely,

Dale

Dale,

I'm having trouble following your logic. How do your being convinced that Brigham Young was mistaken on Adam-God "mean" that the Church lacked pure prophetic leadership (whatever that is)? You being convinced means nothing other than you are convinced. Additionally, you also believe (I take it that means you are convinced) that President McMurray was mistaken. Using your own logical inference, doesn't that mean that the CoC lacked pure prophetic leadership.

Scratching My Head in Seattle.

[srm]

Originally posted by Jason@May 19 2005, 11:03 AM

So my wife has recently asked to have her name removed from the records of the LDS church. She sent her letter both to the local bishop, and to church headquarters in SLC.

No big deal, so far so good.

Then yesterday we get this letter from SLC headquarters stating that they're processing her request, but with the letter they send this little 1 page pamphlet under the picture and signatures of the First Presidency. The pamphlet is about 4 short paragraphs, and is directed toward someone who's left for only one reason. Apparently Salt Lake thinks that the only people who want their names removed are the people who were "offended" in some way. It then states that they're welcome back to "feel the joy" they once felt at any time.

Why on earth do they think that the only people who leave are the ones who were offended? Im not saying that there aren't those who leave for this reason, but it seems that the vast majority of people I've met who are ex-mo's left for other (shall I say more "valid") reasons.

Hmm..

Maybe because those who were offended stand more of a chance of coming back...because they have a testimony.

Those who leave due to doctrinal issues would have a longer row to hoe to make it back.

But, Jason, when you and your lovely wife have eaten husks long enough....

[Jason]

srm,

Trust me, there will be no missing green jell-o or funeral potatoes at my house.

[Jenda]

funeral potatoes???

[Jason]

Funeral potatoes are a local Utah favorite. It's like hashbrowns with cheese and cream of mushroom soup all cooked together.

[Jenda]

ewww!

[Snow]

Originally posted by Jason@May 29 2005, 07:52 PM

Funeral potatoes are a local Utah favorite. It's like hashbrowns with cheese and cream of mushroom soup all cooked together.

I don't know about being a favorite. I've never heard of it... though it does sound appetizing.... throw in some left over meat and I see a meal.