Revenge Of The Sith

[Jason]

So I saw Star Wars III tonight. I thought it sucked. Now don't get me wrong, Im an old Star Wars fan, but after about the first 30 minutes, my wife and I debated about getting up and leaving.

Yeah, it was that bad. I was bored out of my mind.

It picks up a bit, and the scenes of Darth Sidious "converting" Anakin are pretty good. The lightsaber fights are as always entertaining.

There were also some disturbing plot scenes. I'll give you my top two, and you can contribute when you see it:

#1. Anakin kills all the little Jedi kiddies. That was the moment you knew he was gone for good. Not a scene I would have thought would ever be in a Star Wars movie. (No they didn't show them getting mowed down by Vader, but you knew that's what he was doing.)

#2. Obi-Won telling the new Darth Vader: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes." Seems like Hollywood is really pushing a blur in the difference between a right and a wrong.

I take this to the religious level where the Ecumenists tout: "Hey, my doctrine, your doctrine, it's all the same!"

Anyways, on the ratings scale, I'd give it a C-. Maybe a D+.

If you're not interested in forking out the bucks for the theater, I'd recommend you wait until it's out on DVD.

[Setheus]

I can't wait to hear your review of Heaven.

"bla bla bla, moan whine complain. But, the angels playing their harps was as usual good for putting me to sleep on my new cloud bed. I though it would be warmer here. Turns out its only a comfortable 76degrees. All of my pets are here, except for my favorite one. I guess all dogs don't go to heaven. And without my favorite pooch, is this really "paradise"? bla bla bla , moan whine complain. And don't forget cut down and/or belittle.

If you're not into being let down I'd suggest you hold off on the suicide and really try hard not to die or be murdered. Just stick it out until the rapture."

We can always count on you for an up-beat, opptimisitc post Jason.

[USNationalist]

hahaha

[begood2]

Setheus,

I never laughted so hard ... until after reading your post! :)

I would like to live in the celestial kingdom, but I'll settle for what I'm given. That (old) cloud bed doesn't seem that bad, really.

Star Wars always has the best graphics, but I like Star Trek. I never was a fan of Star Wars.

I like both of your avatars, but I think you look cooler with this one back! It's got a cool dude, European flare to it. No wonder you got all the women swooning over you. How can us mere mortal men compete?

[Jason]

Leave it to Sethus to turn an otherwise benign post into a personal attack.

Such a good example of your faith.

[Setheus]

What does my observation of your "Grumpy Bear" attitude and gloomy disposition have to do with faith?

But as a person I'm sure you're smashing!

[Setheus]

X-man Jason, You know I'm just picking on you. I just would like to see a "happy" post from you sometime. Seems like of your not in a debate you're talking about how negitive something is.

Cheer up! Every second brings us closer to death........and God!

[Lindy]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@May 20 2005, 10:09 PM

So I saw Star Wars III tonight. I thought it sucked.

I saw it at a morning showing of it today.... I thought it really helped you understand the underlying reasons behind the turning of Skywalker into Vader. It was not all about power and control, the sub story of Padme and Anakin gave you a different insight into his (Anakin's) emotions. Seeing his transformation from good into evil was a major point of the movie. And, I understood the movie differently than some people did, my son-in-law was dissappointed because of the "love" angle of the movie.......but I think that love was the emotion that started the whole "look to the dark side" thing to begin with.

Agreed that the light saber scenes were great... but I loved watching Yoda in action, and always enjoy watching R2D2.

[Winnie G]

I saw it opening night; I was taken by my son and hubby for my birthday.

I loved the 1st one in 1977, Yup old enough to remember. Took my grandmother it was to violent for her, Opps… I was 18.

I Loved this ONE!

The opening was so well done if my set would have moved I would have gotten air sick!

It tied it all together and I felt for Darth Vader, and how he became who he was.

I loved it and recommended it to those who have seen the ones before.

The special effects were wonderful!

I will buy the whole set and have friends over for a stair wars night, ALL NIGHT LONG!

[Jenda]

Jason, I have to apologetically say, You have rocks in your head.

From someone who has been around from the very beginning, I can say, without a moments doubt, that, next to the original one, this one is the best. Hands down. The others were just pale shadows of what they could have been, but this one rocked!

(That is, once you get past the bad acting by the guy who plays Anakin. )

It did what I have never seen a prequel do. It tied all the ends together fantastically.

[Jason]

Maybe it was the bad acting, but I felt like this movie was twice as long as it needed to be. If they would have cut the first half of the movie down to 10 minutes, the whole thing would have improved 100%.

[Winnie G]

The first part of the movie was the best high Tec special effects I have ever witnessed, that by it self had a physical effect on me that no other movie has done.

If my set had moved I would have gotten air sick.

The actor that played Anakin yes could have done better but I did feel for the story line.

It did tie it all together.

I feel it was worth the money spent, I was entertained.

[Jason]

Maybe that's the problem. Special effects don't impress me anymore. I'd rather have a good plot with great acting.

[Guest lt]

I went with my best friend Heather, we had a blast except for the popcorn witch was bland.....

the movie sttarted out kind of slow but was good after about 10-15 minutes. We discussed how it would apply to the gospel..........It seem to truly show how someone can get sucked into living an unhealthy life quickly without evening knowing it, it only takes one small mistake to get side tracked in life....OOPs did I do that lol lol Any other thoughhts on that topic.

Laurel

[Franken]

I'd have to say I actually enjoyed Hayden Christensen's acting. Sure there may have been a couple parts that I have to agree with you it was pretty odd, but overall I thought he did a really good job. I thought that he was really convincing on how he turned to the dark side and fought Obi-Wan

[Jason]

So what, I've got too high of standards?

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Jason@May 25 2005, 10:29 PM

So what, I've got too high of standards?

Well, if you are expecting good acting and good special effects and good directing and good dialogue and good costumes all from a measley sci-fi show, then yes, your standards are too high.

[Franken]

Originally posted by Jason@May 25 2005, 10:29 PM

So what, I've got too high of standards?

You would be a good critic for the movies.

I actually think Jason would be, there were alot of good things about the movie, however for what they spent they could improve on a few things, the first 15-20 minutes..........The strength in the actors the way they come across, there were a few points where it seemed a bit fake...And your purpose to go to a movie is for it to seem real so you can get lost in it..... All in All, it was better than most of the garbage released this year though.....My thoughts are the standards of acting is getting thin...........................

[Jason]

You would be a good critic for the movies.

I'll take that as a great compliment!

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

I guess I will give my review.

I thought it was one of the best Star Wars movies. It was better than Episode 1 and 2 (which had alot of flaws) and maybe even Episode 6 (which loses points for the use of Ewoks).

I agree that it set the stage PERFECTLY for Episode 4. It was very believable how Darth Vader takes over the personality of Anakin Skywalker, and it makes you feel sorry for him when you learn why he started down that dark path.

I thought he was a little quick to pledge his allegiance to Palpatine right after he attacked Mace Windu. Especially after he had tried to turn in Palpatine as a Sith traitor...

But maybe his guilt over helping kill Mace Windu combined with his fear of losing Padme, and combined with Palpatines powers of persuasion, weakened his logical mind enough for him to make that sudden decision. We don't know how the dark side works in Star Wars...maybe once it gets hold of you, rational thinking gets lost immediately?

Honestly that was the only part that bothered me, aside from the obviously bad dialogue in the love scenes...which George Lucas has never been very good at writing. At least they weren't as bad as the love scenes in Episode 2. The only good love scene I have seen in Star Wars were between Han and Leia, and that was because the scene was mixed with a humorous scene (Han and Leia's arguing) or tragic scene (Han being frozen in carbonite). In Episode 2 and 3, the love scenes were always isolated, with nothing to distract us.

So that was two weaknesses in the story.

But those were minor problems, so I give it an "A".

In response to Jason's criticisms:

#1. Anakin kills all the little Jedi kiddies. That was the moment you knew he was gone for good. Not a scene I would have thought would ever be in a Star Wars movie. (No they didn't show them getting mowed down by Vader, but you knew that's what he was doing.)

Obviously this movie is not for kids. Sort of confusing when Episode 1 seemed aimed at kids (which was a bad idea, in my opinion). But I think this scene was appropriate to show how evil Darth Vader really was. In fact, this is not the first time this has happened in Star Wars. Remember Episode 4? Remember how the Empire destroys Alderaan, an entire planet full of pacifists? Men, women and children? Remember Episode 2, when Anakin admits to killing Tuskan (sandpeople) women and children?

#2. Obi-Won telling the new Darth Vader: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes." Seems like Hollywood is really pushing a blur in the difference between a right and a wrong.

This is a philosophical idea that may or may not be true. George Lucas admitted that he was criticizing politicians for thinking in absolutes. He said that the idea of a Republic becoming an Empire was a result of the Vietnam War, which he was against. He saw America as being like the Republic...going too far. And today he says the same thing is happening with the war on Terror. Of course, that is arguable. I don't necessarily believe it myself. America might not be in danger of becoming an Empire...at least not according to the way things look today...but it HAS happened to other countries. Italy, Germany, Russia...all became "evil empires" for awhile. Under the right set of circumstances, with the right people in office, it could happen to anyone...even us. It probably won't happen, and I hope it doesn't.

Also, when Obi-Wan tells Anakin that "only a Sith deals in absolutes", he is responding to Anakin who says "if you are not with me, you are my enemy"...which is paraphrasing George Bush's statement about his foreign policy. I think Bush used the words "if you are not with us, you are against us" or something similar. I believe he was referring to France, Germany and others that disagreed with starting the War in Iraq. So are they our enemies? Of course not. They were not against us...they just disagreed with us. Bush was making a statement of political absolutism, and he should not have done so. The fact that we are not at war with France and Germany prove that even Bush disagreed with his own statement! He recognized that France and Germany were not "against us".

So, in this example, Anakin's absolute statement was just as wrong as Bush's absolute statement. Obi Wan is pointing out that there are alternatives. Anakin had lots of different choices, but only saw two ways.

I don't think Lucas was making a statement about morality being subjective (though maybe in some cases it is). He is saying that there are many times when things are not black and white...there are gray areas. Look at Stem Cell research. It has a good side and a bad side, depending how you look at it. Look at Capitalism...Democracy...they are not perfect, but work well in many ways...they might be the best systems available to us...but they have weaknesses and strengths. Therefore, they are in the gray area. They are not absolutely good systems, but they work.

Maybe it was the bad acting, but I felt like this movie was twice as long as it needed to be. If they would have cut the first half of the movie down to 10 minutes, the whole thing would have improved 100%.

The real problem is the written dialogue. Especially the love scenes. I don't care how good an actor you are, you can't say those lines without sounding corny. Harisson Ford once told George Lucas that he could write that stuff, but he couldn't make people say it. By the way, Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi were not directed by George Lucas, which may explain why the dialogue seemed much better. And the actors did have better chemistry than those of Episode 1-3.

Still, I would say the acting was the best out of the first three movies. In fact I have to disagree with you about the first part of the movie. I thoroughly enjoyed the scene where Anakin and Obi Wan attacked General Grievous' ship. This was the first time that I saw dialogue and character interaction that was ALMOST as good as the stuff from the 80's. During the elevator scene, I was laughing out loud at the dialogue between Anakin and Obi Wan, and the reactions of R2D2 to the situation. It was the first...maybe the only time...in the prequal trilogy that I really appreciated the humor. And I think that the rescue of Palpatine was important to establish the friendship between Obi Wan and Anakin (Anakin rescues Obi Wan twice)...and Palpatine's first influence over Anakin (when he fights Dooku). It explained why Obi Wan told Luke that Anakin was a great pilot and a good friend. Episode 2 did not show Anakin's piloting skills or much of a friendship between him and Obi Wan. Episode 3 gave that to us.

After the "rescue" of Palpatine, things got darker and I thought the acting was acceptable (except the love scenes). The final battle between Anakin/Vader and Obi Wan was dramatic and intense. And I thought it was the best acting I have seen from Anakin as he yells "I hate you" at Obi Wan, with bloodshot eyes, while bursting into flames. I really believed that his hate was genuine, and it moved me emotionally (though I admit I had not taken my medication that night).

[Dell]

I saw starwars today and thought it was awesome

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Taoist_Saint@May 26 2005, 04:15 PM

After the "rescue" of Palpatine, things got darker and I thought the acting was acceptable (except the love scenes). The final battle between Anakin/Vader and Obi Wan was dramatic and intense. And I thought it was the best acting I have seen from Anakin as he yells "I hate you" at Obi Wan, with bloodshot eyes, while bursting into flames. I really believed that his hate was genuine, and it moved me emotionally (though I admit I had not taken my medication that night).

That scene moved me, too, Tao. During that fight scene, a quote from the original movie came to mind. During the light saber scene between Obi Wan and Darth Vader in the death star, Darth Vader says, "When last we met, you were the master and I was but the learner. We have come full-circle. Now I am the master."

There were lots of scenes in this movie that brought the first movie back full force. Little parts of scenes where it seems the actions of some of the cast were scripted to be the exact replicas of movements from cast members of the first movie. It was like deja vu. And a real strong case of it, too.

As an aside, there is an interview between the guy who plays Anakin and George Lucas somewhere on the net, and they are interviewing each other. The Anakin guy (Christopher Hayden ?) said when they digitally remastered the original series, that in the third movie (part VI), they edited out the guy who was originally in the final "Jedi ghost" scene that played dying Darth Vader and inserted him. So my daughter and I went back and looked at that final scene, and sure 'nuff, there was Anakin Skywalker circa 25 years old instead of Anakin Skywalker circa 50 years old. (I always thought that ending was too hokey to end such a brilliant trilogy with. )

[Lindy]

This is a philosophical idea that may or may not be true. George Lucas admitted that he was criticizing politicians for thinking in absolutes. He said that the idea of a Republic becoming an Empire was a result of the Vietnam War, which he was against. He saw America as being like the Republic...going too far. And today he says the same thing is happening with the war on Terror. Of course, that is arguable. I don't necessarily believe it myself. America might not be in danger of becoming an Empire...at least not according to the way things look today...but it HAS happened to other countries. Italy, Germany, Russia...all became "evil empires" for awhile. Under the right set of circumstances, with the right people in office, it could happen to anyone...even us. It probably won't happen, and I hope it doesn't.

Also, when Obi-Wan tells Anakin that "only a Sith deals in absolutes", he is responding to Anakin who says "if you are not with me, you are my enemy"...which is paraphrasing George Bush's statement about his foreign policy. I think Bush used the words "if you are not with us, you are against us" or something similar. I believe he was referring to France, Germany and others that disagreed with starting the War in Iraq. So are they our enemies? Of course not. They were not against us...they just disagreed with us. Bush was making a statement of political absolutism, and he should not have done so. The fact that we are not at war with France and Germany prove that even Bush disagreed with his own statement! He recognized that France and Germany were not "against us".

So, in this example, Anakin's absolute statement was just as wrong as Bush's absolute statement. Obi Wan is pointing out that there are alternatives. Anakin had lots of different choices, but only saw two ways.

Talk about small worlds.... one of the kids (20 year old) I work with was talking world politics with me today, and he mentioned what kind of a political statement he got from this Star Wars movie...he said a lot of what you said TS....He started with how he thinks Lucas is a genius, to spread his statements in a story line. He's a smart kid, and I hadn't thought really about the political references till he brought them up...and then here they are again..... wow.

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Originally posted by Jenda@May 26 2005, 08:57 PM

they edited out the guy who was originally in the final "Jedi ghost" scene that played dying Darth Vader and inserted him. So my daughter and I went back and looked at that final scene, and sure 'nuff, there was Anakin Skywalker circa 25 years old instead of Anakin Skywalker circa 50 years old. (I always thought that ending was too hokey to end such a brilliant trilogy with. )

It was cool that, in Episode 3, Yoda explained to Obi Wan that he would be trained to become "immortal" while on Tatooine.

And I didn't mind Luke seeing "Force Ghosts" at the end of the series. But it was corny to have him see them while surrounded by dancing Ewoks

[Jenda]

The movie stirred a desire to see the original Star Wars movie (episode IV), so my daughter and I watched it last night. I was amazed by the tiny details where the two movies were linked (beside the glaring obvious ones) that they had put into the final movie. Like when Obi Wan gives Luke Darth Vader's lightsaber, and said "Your father wanted me to give this to you when you were old enough". Of course Anakin said no such thing (but Obi Wan had to keep his "cover story" up), but I remember Obi Wan walking over and picking up Darth Vader's lightsaber before walking off. I had forgotten that scene in the first movie.

And all the other little details. It was great seeing them back to back.