The Difference Between Good And Evil

[Traveler]

From a religious stand point man was unable to decipher the difference between good and evil until he partook of the “forbidden fruit” at which point evil had such power over mankind to render him mortal with death as the only possible outcome. This is a rather drastic concept don’t you think? Why is evil so powerful that once even the tiniest seed is planted the only possible course is complete ruin. The definition of perdition (damnation) is complete ruin. Only by divine intervention, at great divine pain, suffering and cost can the powers of evil be stayed and put at bay. Wow, sin is an amazing power to be able to render suffering and sorrow on an all powerful G-d even without G-d indulging in sin himself. With such great risk - why is evil given any allowance?

Without choosing good, man cannot be good and no choice of good can be made without the possibility of evil. But when and how is the choice made between good and evil? Indeed, what is the difference? When is that choice made to take the first step toward good or the first step toward evil? What is the first step or choice? I have pondered this as the grand purpose of life to which I offer to anyone that cares to read my opinion.

I begin by defining the first step of choosing evil. This is a rather subtle concept because the nature of evil is so hideous that no one would ever choose evil unless the reality of it was concealed. How is this done? By evil’s first enticement and discretion. It is the enticement of self gratification or in other words selfishness. This is the lure of evil and first step. It leads only to indulgences, captivity, slavery, death and the lost of ability to comprehend good.

One of the arguments used to or excuses employed by someone attempting to justify their decent into self indulgence is what I call the logic of “What’s wrong with” syndrome. I believe that when coupled with a selfish desire the logic of “What’s wrong with” is the core of the criminal mind. It can first excuse the selfishness (as long as it does not hurt anyone else who should care?) Then it moves to the next phase which is the exploitation of others that deserve to be exploited (as long as I am only exploiting someone that wants to be exploited, why should it be of any concern to anyone else? If they do not care what I do to them, why should you or anyone else?) Then moving to the final phase which allows the collateral damage of inflicting others that are innocent (it is not my fault because I did not intend to inflict anyone - or if they were not happy they should have done something for themself).

The point is that once selfishness takes hold of a person’s heart they assume that selfishness is the engine of everyone’s actions and behavior. They are no different than anyone else - they are just looking out for themself and what ever goes wrong was not their fault or in their control. They justify their self greed arguing that all behavior is based on selfishness and self greed. The old argument that you do what you do because you want to, so - since everyone is just doing what they want to, shouldn’t I do what I what? And thus the criminal or evil mind justifies itself and at the same time condemns everyone else to their same evil and criminal level thinking - that if anyone is happy, justified or rewarded in what they are doing then they demand the right to whatever they think make others happy. Any reward they deem granted to someone they think they deserve and have just as much right to be as rewarded to it as anyone else.

Every evil act, ever war, every robbery, every murder, every abuse, every exploitation, every divorce, and every sorrow inflicted by one person on another began with selfishness and self gratification, the me first mentality.

What then is good? Quite simply good is the opposite of evil. The first step to good is self sacrifice for the benefit of someone else. It is the offering of what you want to the greater good. Oh you say - see, good is not really different - you can only do good if what you think is good is really what you what. And this logic is why you have failed. The greater good is not the good for yourself but the good that is needed by others.

Many and perhaps most will not fully understand how good works to change harts until they experience marriage and have a child to care for. They will learn that the care for that child will begin with conception, which if the conception was based on selfishness most likely abuses of some sort will result. By time the child is born the parents will learn that only by their self sacrifice can the child be nurtured and grow. But the best possible is realized only when both parents, as a team, sacrifice themself for the other parent and the new child. This is the only way that there can be another generation with any hope for a greater good. Therefore the greater good is the good that is preserved from one generation to the next.

This is in great part why I am LDS or Mormon. It is what I believe is a view into eternity. It is the heart and sole of G-d and the purpose of all men and women to experience and learn and thus become like the G-ds knowing good and evil.

The Traveler

[Setheus]

"And it was made clear to me that all things are good even if they are corrupted. They could not be corrupted if they were supremely good; but unless they were good they could not be corrupted. If they were supremely good, they would be incorruptible; if they were not good at all, there would be nothing in them to be corrupted. For corruption harms; but unless it could diminish goodness, it could not harm. Either, then, corruption does not harm--which cannot be--or, as is certain, all that is corrupted is thereby deprived of good. But if they are deprived of all good, they will cease to be. For if they are at all and cannot be at all corrupted, they will become better, because they will remain incorruptible. Now what can be more monstrous than to maintain that by losing all good they have become better? If, then, they are deprived of all good, they will cease to exist. So long as they are, therefore, they are good. Therefore, whatsoever is, is good. Evil, then, the origin of which I had been seeking, has no substance at all; for if it were a substance, it would be good. For either it would be an incorruptible substance and so a supreme good, or a corruptible substance, which could not be corrupted unless it were good. I understood, therefore, and it was made clear to me that thou madest all things good, nor is there any substance at all not made by thee. And because all that thou madest is not equal, each by itself is good, and the sum of all of them is very good, for our God made all things very good."

[Setheus]

When the will abandons what is above itself and turns to what is lower, it becomes evil -- not because that is evil to which it turns, but because the turning itself is wicked. Therefore it is not an inferior thing which has made the will evil, but it is itself which has become so by wickedly and inordinately desiring an inferior thing.

[Traveler]

I believe true religion is an eternal perspective. In ancient times of the Old Testament a person that had mastered the ability to maintain an eternal perspective through trials was referred to as a prophet. I would point out that an eternal perspective or prophetic ability has little or nothing to do with understanding the sequence of things during a mortal trial. Instead it is the opposite or the ability to not focus on non eternal things, especially at the expense of eternal things. With this understanding in mind, I have found much of the criticism of the Prophet Joseph Smith is caught up in a non eternal view of things. But Joseph is not the purpose of this follow up post. The focus of this post is G-d the Father and his Son Jesus the Christ.

In order to master an eternal perspective there is something about G-d the Father and his Son Jesus Christ that must be understood.

“For this is life eternal to know thee, the only true G-d and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.”

The only way to have an eternal perspective is by coming to an understanding of G-d the Father and his Son Jesus Christ. This is the very core of true religion with power to bring about eternal life. On this notion I would add two thought provided by Jesus. First, Jesus offers himself as an example of eternal perspective of things.

“If you have known me ye should have known my Father also”.

In other words Jesus offers himself as the key to unlocking the eternal secret of G-d the Father. This is why Jesus said that he is “the Way”. There is a great deal more to this doctrine but I will not expand this thought – leaving such effort to the reader.

The second important notion: Jesus taught, “If ye continue in my word then are you my disciples indeed and you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.”

Here Jesus pleads that we do not just listen to his doctrine but that we alter our lives to conform to what he is teaching. If we do this he promises that we shall know truth (or the goodness of the Father) and with such knowledge that we will be empowered to become free. But what is he teaching? In what manner are we to alter our lives? What is the secret?

Lets take a look at what we know, first about G-d the Father and second, the Son Jesus Christ.

“In the beginning G-d created the heavens and the earth.”

There is a lot of powerful information in this simple statement. Originally written in ancient Hebrew the extent of the meaning goes far beyond the simple English translation. In essence the creation was no simple or easy thing, even for the Almighty G-d the Father. He expelled power, attention and divine effort to bring about the creation of “the heavens and the earth.” The very important notion is that prior to the “beginning”, G-d was G-d. The creation did not occur for his benefit or investment. He was eternally focused on a “work” or a “plan”, which he considered more important than himself. So important is the plan that he is willing to make personal divine sacrifices – with no possible benefit for himself. He is willing to pay a divine cost to something of eternal purpose. He has an eternal perspective and disciplines himself (sacrifices) to achieve that end.

The Son of G-d, Jesus the Christ has the same eternal perspective. He is centered on a “work” or a “plan” that he also considers more important than himself. He is willing to sacrifice himself, at the price of pain, suffering and even death for what he considers more important. Not so he could be exalted because he was exalted before any sacrifice. Like his Father he has an eternal perspective above that of himself and he will sacrifice to that end.

Now the ball is in your court – it is your life to live. You can play to win for your personal benefit and amusements or you may play with an eternal perspective. If you are willing to sacrifice yourself for the benefit of others, you will, through that play have a glimpse of eternity and G-d. But there is a caveat, if you sacrifice thinking to obtain the better for you – your sacrifice is in vein. But do not despair, G-d knows you and loves you and he will insure that you will have the challenge for whatever your heart most desires that is not eternal and in that you will choose between good and evil, it is your divine destiny.

The Traveler

[Lindy]

Now the ball is in your court – it is your life to live. You can play to win for your personal benefit and amusements or you may play with an eternal perspective. If you are willing to sacrifice yourself for the benefit of others, you will, through that play have a glimpse of eternity and G-d. But there is a caveat, if you sacrifice thinking to obtain the better for you – your sacrifice is in vein. But do not despair, G-d knows you and loves you and he will insure that you will have the challenge for whatever your heart most desires that is not eternal and in that you will choose between good and evil, it is your divine destiny.

Good statement....but don't you think that to sacrifice something of yourself to try to obtain betterment for yourself and others is not a sacrifice in vein?

[Traveler]

Originally posted by lindy9556@May 25 2005, 02:39 PM

Now the ball is in your court – it is your life to live. You can play to win for your personal benefit and amusements or you may play with an eternal perspective. If you are willing to sacrifice yourself for the benefit of others, you will, through that play have a glimpse of eternity and G-d. But there is a caveat, if you sacrifice thinking to obtain the better for you – your sacrifice is in vein. But do not despair, G-d knows you and loves you and he will insure that you will have the challenge for whatever your heart most desires that is not eternal and in that you will choose between good and evil, it is your divine destiny.

Good statement....but don't you think that to sacrifice something of yourself to try to obtain betterment for yourself and others is not a sacrifice in vein?

There is a trap of pride whenever one thinks that they are more important than others and there is a trap of making the excuse that your selfishness is really a caring for others. I believe that at some point one will be placed so they must choose between sacrificing themself or sacrificing others. We may get by for a time but there is that climax when a final choice is made. I never really understood until I was a parent.

The Traveler

[Lindy]

Originally posted by Traveler+May 28 2005, 08:08 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Traveler @ May 28 2005, 08:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--lindy9556@May 25 2005, 02:39 PM

Now the ball is in your court – it is your life to live. You can play to win for your personal benefit and amusements or you may play with an eternal perspective. If you are willing to sacrifice yourself for the benefit of others, you will, through that play have a glimpse of eternity and G-d. But there is a caveat, if you sacrifice thinking to obtain the better for you – your sacrifice is in vein. But do not despair, G-d knows you and loves you and he will insure that you will have the challenge for whatever your heart most desires that is not eternal and in that you will choose between good and evil, it is your divine destiny.

Good statement....but don't you think that to sacrifice something of yourself to try to obtain betterment for yourself and others is not a sacrifice in vein?

There is a trap of pride whenever one thinks that they are more important than others and there is a trap of making the excuse that your selfishness is really a caring for others. I believe that at some point one will be placed so they must choose between sacrificing themself or sacrificing others. We may get by for a time but there is that climax when a final choice is made. I never really understood until I was a parent.

The Traveler

I am a little confused at your statement Trav.

I was thinking more along the lines of those who are fighting for freedom for others....the soldiers who give up so much, and the ultimate sacrifice of death to try to ensure a brighter future and better life for other people. I just can't see their sacrifice classified as "in vein."

[Traveler]

Originally posted by lindy9556+May 28 2005, 05:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (lindy9556 @ May 28 2005, 05:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Traveler@May 28 2005, 08:08 AM

<!--QuoteBegin--lindy9556@May 25 2005, 02:39 PM

Now the ball is in your court – it is your life to live. You can play to win for your personal benefit and amusements or you may play with an eternal perspective. If you are willing to sacrifice yourself for the benefit of others, you will, through that play have a glimpse of eternity and G-d. But there is a caveat, if you sacrifice thinking to obtain the better for you – your sacrifice is in vein. But do not despair, G-d knows you and loves you and he will insure that you will have the challenge for whatever your heart most desires that is not eternal and in that you will choose between good and evil, it is your divine destiny.

Good statement....but don't you think that to sacrifice something of yourself to try to obtain betterment for yourself and others is not a sacrifice in vein?

There is a trap of pride whenever one thinks that they are more important than others and there is a trap of making the excuse that your selfishness is really a caring for others. I believe that at some point one will be placed so they must choose between sacrificing themself or sacrificing others. We may get by for a time but there is that climax when a final choice is made. I never really understood until I was a parent.

The Traveler

I am a little confused at your statement Trav.

I was thinking more along the lines of those who are fighting for freedom for others....the soldiers who give up so much, and the ultimate sacrifice of death to try to ensure a brighter future and better life for other people. I just can't see their sacrifice classified as "in vein."

We may be on the same page - Jesus said that no greater love is there than to lay down your life for another. In reality our life and time is all we really have. Sacrificing one's life and one's time is the only real gift we can give. The point I attempted to make is that when we make sacrifices for ourselves over others the sacrifice is in vain.

The Traveler