Temple Lot

[Setheus]

Originally posted by Jenda@Jun 10 2005, 08:46 PM

Put on my place???

Sorry. Nobody has put me on my place. Especially not Snow with his pithy one-liners.

Pithy one liners that put you in your place and leave you speachless.

I'd like to tell a tale. I was taking a guided tour of JS house and a couple of RLDS sisters were leading the tour. Two men in our group were not members of any church but just taking the tour out of historical curiosity. One of them asked the Sisters what "Mormon" was. Since its called the "Book of Mormon". The EXACT words used by one of the sisters was, "Uh, I don't know. We were not taught that in any of our training"

This is not something I made up. This actually happened in my presence!!!

The man said something like "no I mean is Mormon a place or a person's name...?" and the sisters replyed that they they didn't know. Their faces tured red and they attempted to move the tour on. Then another man who is LDS in our group proceeded to "enlighten" the sisters and the rest of the group explained the answers the two men were looking for.

I stood back and just watched the event unfold. I was in shock! How could two grown women who claim to be missionaries of GOD not give a most basic answer and still claim to be His reps. on earth to the children of men?

I'll tell you I know just about ZIP about being Budist but I could pass for a better Monk than these two could at their own religion.

THAT day was when I knew in my heart and soul that the only true church on the earth was the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I thought I knew it before that. But that sealed the deal.

Next time you meet someone who claims to be a pilot ask them what "Lift" is and if they don't know then chances are they are not a pilot. Do you follow? Didn't know what MORMON was.

[Randy Johnson]

Originally posted by Jenda@Jun 10 2005, 09:46 PM

Put on my place???

Sorry. Nobody has put me on my place. Especially not Snow with his pithy one-liners.

Dawn,

Again...I just want you to know that I admire you in many ways..and I think you are a pretty sharp troop.....in general! hahahahaha!

I have read and reread your post...and I must tell you...that does not sound like the Restored gospel and the "stone cut out of the mountain."

To me, what I am hearing you say is...that for 175 yrs the Lord's church has been a failure (no other way of interpreting it....) and that because his church is in such turmoil and disarray...that he will yet again "set his church in order" through this "grass roots" movement..through people who very well may not even have the Gift of the Holy Ghost....let alone PH authority to so act.

From what I know of what the Prophet Joseph taught....with all due respect, this is false doctrine. Now having said that, I can understand how you have come to such a place in your heart and mind. Going back to my other post regarding the futility of the Restorationists to be able to organize...I can see where you have let this notion evolve and take root. But...it is false....plain and simple.

The Lord's house is a house of order. His Church has not failed. His "marvelous work and a wonder" has not been an exercise in futility! There is no need for a "grass roots" movement. What there is need for is for humility, repentance and faith.

The world does not need more "movements"....the world needs more faithful disciples...who follow the Lord..and the Lord's annointed.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Randy Johnson@Jun 11 2005, 05:32 AM

The world does not need more "movements"....the world needs more faithful disciples...who follow the Lord..and the Lord's annointed.

Ah, there's the crux of the matter. I guess it all boils down to whose definition of "faithful disciples" and "Lord's annointed" we accept. A man's definition, or God's.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Setheus+Jun 10 2005, 09:04 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Setheus @ Jun 10 2005, 09:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Jun 10 2005, 08:46 PM

Put on my place??? 

Sorry.  Nobody has put me on my place.  Especially not Snow with his pithy one-liners.

Pithy one liners that put you in your place and leave you speachless.

I'd like to tell a tale. I was taking a guided tour of JS house and a couple of RLDS sisters were leading the tour. Two men in our group were not members of any church but just taking the tour out of historical curiosity. One of them asked the Sisters what "Mormon" was. Since its called the "Book of Mormon". The EXACT words used by one of the sisters was, "Uh, I don't know. We were not taught that in any of our training"

This is not something I made up. This actually happened in my presence!!!

The man said something like "no I mean is Mormon a place or a person's name...?" and the sisters replyed that they they didn't know. Their faces tured red and they attempted to move the tour on. Then another man who is LDS in our group proceeded to "enlighten" the sisters and the rest of the group explained the answers the two men were looking for.

I stood back and just watched the event unfold. I was in shock! How could two grown women who claim to be missionaries of GOD not give a most basic answer and still claim to be His reps. on earth to the children of men?

I'll tell you I know just about ZIP about being Budist but I could pass for a better Monk than these two could at their own religion.

THAT day was when I knew in my heart and soul that the only true church on the earth was the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I thought I knew it before that. But that sealed the deal.

Next time you meet someone who claims to be a pilot ask them what "Lift" is and if they don't know then chances are they are not a pilot. Do you follow? Didn't know what MORMON was.

You just keep barking up the wrong tree, Setheus. One would think you'd understand the difference by now.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Jenda@Jun 10 2005, 07:46 PM

Put on my place???

Sorry. Nobody has put me on my place. Especially not Snow with his pithy one-liners.

It was hardly a pilthy one liner. If'n it were, Idda said, "Your mother chases sailors." I just didn't think I had to explain the whole concept that could be summed into one sentence but here goes.

...you know some folks leave the church cause they study it out in there minds and come to a conclusion that, for them, it doesn't all add up. Then they leave.

...others lack discilipline and character and start drinking coffee then maybe a beer here or there. Then they go a courting with little miss Suzi Pants down the block and she ain't marman after a few beers the guy loses his chastidy and so begins a life or worldliness. Now this guy has trouble compartmentalizing his guilt - staying active in the Church AND gitt'n busy with Suzi and Budweiser so one day, lo and behold, he come's to the conclusion that the Church iddn't true.

Though I disagree with the folks in example one, I have some respect for where they're coming from. Though I understand the second guy's predicament, I don't have so much respect for it. He has changed his beliefs to match his behavior and eliminate the dissonance. He became the slave to his appetites and the cart pulled the horse - so to speak.

I am not putting you in the second guys class cuz he ain't classy llike you Jenda but here you are saying that institutional religion is corrupt and that the kingdom of God must therefore come from a grass-roots campaign. Did you come up with the piece of doctrinal insight through study and prayer, or did you find yourself in an untenable Church, a misama where chaos or disorder were plenty and truth and constancy were sparse; where the winds of doctrinal confusion were swirling about you and the iron rod of God's communion - from heaven to the institution - melted away into oblivion..... Therefore, Jenda, did you then need to change your beliefs in order to elilminate the dissonance and so came to believe that all religious institutions were corrupt and grass needed to have roots?

To believe that (instituions corrupt / grassroots needed) you have to accept that God can't direct his people through an ordered hierarchy of Church government or that he won't. I believe neither. I admit, someone like yourself - a seeker of truth - someone who loves the gospel and wants to do the right thing has a tough road to hoe in the Reorganized universe. It's a universe that is fragmented and uncohesive, and getting worse. Bless those that are trying to bring the movement back towards Mormonism and away from it's Evangelical leanings but as they gain a bit of a following, they become institutional, according to your philosophy, and thus corrupt, then the process and fragmentation just starts again. Yes Jenda, it's a tough road to hoe.

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by JaredDollen@Jun 8 2005, 05:13 AM

Oh ye of little faith. The works and plans of God cannot be frustrated by man.

Did you realize that Independence sits on a fault line? I have a friend who told me a story which I do believe. She told me when the C of C built their Temple that they did not dig down to the bedrock therefore it is not built on a firm foundation. She also told me that a friend of hers from a Restoration branch had a dream.

The dream was that their was a great earthquake in Independence and she saw the earth open up and swallow that Temple and their were many people running and screaming from it. She said that it destroyed all of the C of C buildings but that the original Temple lot which the Hedrokites own and the Hedrokite church was left unscathed and in Perfect condition as if protected by some invisible force.

Man does not need to tear down his buildings to complete God's plan. God will take care of it when their is a people worthy of completing his plan.

"Somebody" said this, "somebody" had a dream. blah blah blah

ALL very trustworthy and "proof" that your fantasy is TRUE!.

(snickering to self. . . . .)

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by Traveler@Jun 8 2005, 09:57 AM

I will add a couple other opinions to the mix. A few years back I was visiting several ancient Mayan archeological sites in Mexico when I ran into a group of LDS Mayan’s involved in the digs (and other things). They were of the opinion that the main temple at Jackson county Mo. would be built by Lamanites; in particular the Mayan people that would one day arise and unite the Laminite populations of the Americas (North and South) and create a powerful economic and political force. They also felt they would save the USA from moral corruption of secret combinations.

My personal opinion is that the city Zion and the associated temples (Jackson Co.) will be a restoration of an ancient city that was also called Zion that had the nick name of “The City of Enoch”. The Zion cities of Enoch were established under the covenant (Divine Law) of peace that was given to Noah a second time following the flood. (The society of Enoch being taken up and perserved from the flood as a type of the saints that will be taken up prior to the return of the Messiah when fire shall cover the earth in the manner of the flood) The city Salem also means peace (Salem is the Hebrew word for peace) and was reestablished as a shadow of Zion by Melchedeck. When Salem (that was built on a hill or mountain) was expanded to include a second mountain; Salem became known as “Salem on two mountains” which is the Hebrew meaning of Jerusalem. Therefore, it is my theory that the “New Jerusalem” is the reestablishment of the reestablishment of the covenant of peace established in the city states of Enoch’s Zion. Those that were taken up will return at the end of time as a “Chiasm” to complete the prophesies of Enoch.

The Traveler

Criminy! MORE fantastical speculation!

Keep it up, folks. . . . .