Temple Marriage, but spouse leaves church?

[tizzyk]

I am having problems right now with my husband. I married my husband in the temple. I was born in the church and he is a convert. We have known each other for about 11 years now...I dated him for a year, and we have been married for about a year and a half. When he was first baptized and through getting married to me, he was excited about the religion and I really feel he had a testimony. But sometime after we were married something changed in him. He has not had the best life, his parents are alcoholics and he was beaten by his stepdad as he was growing up. He was very poor as he was growing up and often times they did not have enough food and he would not be able to eat for long periods of time. Winter was the worst because there was no berries or apples to pick from trees/bushes to eat. He basically raised his younger brother and sister. All his life he has always given to others, always helping others, but he never learned to help himself. He never likes to accept help in anything, and doesn't feel right when he does. Now I think after all those years of sacrificing his own needs and wants for others' sake, he has become overwhelmed by it all. He has now become very bitter toward everything. He is bitter and angry toward the Lord, and toward his lot in life. He always tells me how he has had such a different life than I have and so he sees things through different eyes. He now tells me that he does not believe in the church and that Mormons just blindly follow and never question their religion and are just molded from birth to believe and never question. And, according to him...even the questions that us mormons do ask...it is only the questions that "they" tell us to ask, and we only find the answers that "they" tell us to find. He says that he "just can't bite" on this religion. He has become so bitter that he has lost all faith, and I fear that he has such a closed heart that the Lord can't get through to him. I mean, if he in his heart is sure the answer is "no"...how can the Lord ever let him know that the answer is "yes"? He also says that all this is his opinion and his opinions are inmoveable. (Which I really don't understand because somehow his "opinion" that the church was true...somehow was "moved" or changed to his "opinion" that the church is not true). He is considering being excommunicated because he says that he did not really understand what he was getting into, and that if he knew then what he knows now he would have never joined the church. He says he does not believe in the church and that he never will.

Now, what do I do with that? He was worthy and he had a testimony when he married me. I got married in the temple, I wanted, and still do want, an eternal marriage...but if he leaves the church doesn't that effectively delete our celestial marriage? I mean if he does not fulfill his covenants, but I do everything I can to fulfill mine...do we stay sealed and in the eternity he'll come around....or will I go through life with him, only to lose him in death and be given another? I didn't choose a civil marriage...but will I be forced to only have my husband for life and then marry some stranger in the afterlife? What can I do if he get's excommunicated and never comes back to the church? What can I do if the bitterness and anger consumes him to the point that he just can't be around me anymore? Am I now destined to live a life of constant heartache as I strive to live righteously and my husband slowly slips away from me....but I can never get a divorce with him because I am sealed to him...and yet I will lose him in the afterlife??? I just really don't know what to do...can someone PLEASE help me?

[lilered]

Dear Sister: I would counsel you to ask for a personal meeting with your Bishop and then tell him your story. I would encourage you to fast and pray prior to this meeting so you will be intune for the Lords spirit to guide you both.

Dallin Oakes counsels the following: Now I speak to married members, especially to any who may be considering divorce.

I strongly urge you and those who advise you to face up to the reality that for most marriage problems, the remedy is not divorce but repentance. Often the cause is not incompatibility but selfishness. The first step is not separation but reformation. Divorce is not an all-purpose solution, and it often creates long-term heartache. A broad-based international study of the levels of happiness before and after “major life events” found that, on average, persons are far more successful in recovering their level of happiness after the death of a spouse than after a divorce.3 Spouses who hope that divorce will resolve conflicts often find that it aggravates them, since the complexities that follow divorce—especially where there are children—generate new conflicts.

Think first of the children. Because divorce separates the interests of children from the interests of their parents, children are its first victims. Scholars of family life tell us that the most important cause of the current decline in the well-being of children is the current weakening of marriage, because family instability decreases parental investment in children.4 We know that children raised in a single-parent home after divorce have a much higher risk for drug and alcohol abuse, sexual promiscuity, poor school performance, and various kinds of victimization.

A couple with serious marriage problems should see their bishop. As the Lord’s judge, he will give counsel and perhaps even discipline that will lead toward healing.

Bishops do not counsel members to divorce, but they can help members with the consequences of their decisions. Under the law of the Lord, a marriage, like a human life, is a precious, living thing. If our bodies are sick, we seek to heal them. We do not give up. While there is any prospect of life, we seek healing again and again. The same should be true of our marriages, and if we seek Him, the Lord will help us and heal us.

Latter-day Saint spouses should do all within their power to preserve their marriages. They should follow the marriage enrichment counsel in the First Presidency’s message in the April 2007 Ensign and Liahona.5 To avoid so-called “incompatibility,” they should be best friends, kind and considerate, sensitive to each other’s needs, always seeking to make each other happy. They should be partners in family finances, working together to regulate their desires for temporal things.

Of course, there can be times when one spouse falls short and the other is wounded and feels pain. When that happens, the one who is wronged should balance current disappointments against the good of the past and the brighter prospects of the future.

Don’t treasure up past wrongs, reprocessing them again and again. In a marriage relationship, festering is destructive; forgiving is divine (see D&C 64:9–10). Plead for the guidance of the Spirit of the Lord to forgive wrongs (as President Faust has just taught us so beautifully), to overcome faults, and to strengthen relationships.

If you are already descending into the low state of marriage-in-name-only, please join hands, kneel together, and prayerfully plead for help and the healing power of the Atonement. Your humble and united pleadings will bring you closer to the Lord and to each other and will help you in the hard climb back to marital harmony.

Consider these observations of a wise bishop with extensive experience in counseling members with marriage problems. Speaking of those who eventually divorced, he said:

“Universally, every couple or individual said they recognized that divorce was not a good thing, but they all insisted that their situation was different.

“Universally, they focused on the fault of the spouse and attributed little responsibility to their own behavior. Communication had withered.

“Universally, they were looking back, not willing to leave the baggage of past behavior on the roadside and move on.

“Part of the time, serious sin was involved, but more often they had just ‘fallen out of love,’ saying, ‘He doesn’t satisfy my needs anymore,’ or, ‘She has changed.’

“All were worried about the effect on the children, but always the conclusion was ‘it’s worse for them to have us together and fighting.’ ”

In contrast, the couples who followed this bishop’s counsel and stayed together emerged with their marriages even stronger. That prospect began with their mutual commitment to keep the commandments, stay active in their Church attendance, scripture reading, and prayer, and to work on their own shortcomings. They “recognized the importance and power of the Atonement for their spouse and for themselves,” and “they were patient and would try again and again.” When the couples he counseled did these things, repenting and working to save their marriages, this bishop reported that “healing was achieved 100 percent of the time.”

Even those who think their spouse is entirely to blame should not act hastily. One study found “no evidence that divorce or separation typically made adults happier than staying in an unhappy marriage. Two out of three unhappily married adults who avoided divorce reported being happily married five years later.”6 A woman who persisted in an intolerable marriage for many years until the children were raised explained: “There were three parties to our marriage—my husband and I and the Lord. I told myself that if two of us could hang in there, we could hold it together.”

The power of hope expressed in these examples is sometimes rewarded with repentance and reformation, but sometimes it is not. Personal circumstances vary greatly. We cannot control and we are not responsible for the choices of others, even when they impact us so painfully. I am sure the Lord loves and blesses husbands and wives who lovingly try to help spouses struggling with such deep problems as pornography or other addictive behavior or with the long-term consequences of childhood abuse.

Whatever the outcome and no matter how difficult your experiences, you have the promise that you will not be denied the blessings of eternal family relationships if you love the Lord, keep His commandments, and just do the best you can. When young Jacob “suffered afflictions and much sorrow” from the actions of other family members, Father Lehi assured him, “Thou knowest the greatness of God; and he shall consecrate thine afflictions for thy gain” (2 Nephi 2:1–2). Similarly, the Apostle Paul assured us that “all things work together for good to them that love God” (Romans 8:28).

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

My dad was abusive, physically and emotionally. While I didn't starve (unless I refused to eat my vegetables) I didn't have a very dreamy childhood. My mother had fibromyalgia and coeliac which severely interfered with her ability to protect us kids from our dad's temper. When I was a teenager I was "abused" by my older brother. I was preparing for a mission when my mom died on November 13 2002 in a car accident. On November 17 2002 the woman I loved (and still love - the closest I've ever come to a "soul mate") died in another car accident. I turned 19 on the 24th of November that year.

He thinks mormons don't question? Then you're right, he is living in his own little world (ok, so you didn't say that, I paraphrased). I questioned. I searched every other religion I could get information on for answers. I went inactive for a year. The problem isn't asking questions - or even asking the right questions. The problem is having the guts to listen for the answers - and when I did that, guess where they lead me? And now I'm again preparing for a mission.

Frankly, it's not often that I find someone who's sob story sounds worse than mine, and I have the impression your husband might be in the mood to compete if I spoke to him face to face. But the fact is that there are a LOT of people out there who've gone through worse <insert expletive here> (one of the few times where one would be appropriate) than he has and have joined the church and found joy in their lives. Tell him to stop being so self-absorbed and to get over himself. It doesn't matter where we've been, what matters is where we're going. Where does he think he's going by leaving (quitting)?

:edit:

I should append - all of those issues I "should" have from my childhood I have gotten over - with the help of a good bishop and a good therapist. As regards the therapist - 3 months in and out, no pills, and with a church-member discount.

Edited July 28, 2009 by puf_the_majic_dragon

[tizzyk]

Thank you for your words. I plan on getting a meeting with the bishop. Now, you did quote a talk on divorce...and I have read this talk before, and I do not plan on giving up on my husband any time soon. My fear is just that I would lose him anyway in the afterlife if he never returns to the church or if he leaves and dies before he can come back to the church. There are no children...we have only been married a year and a half. So do I live my life with him and hope he comes back only to lose him? I know that this is merely the beginning stages and I plan on doing everything I can to make things work. And for now there is hope, and as long as I have hope I guess I'll keep trying. But what if it isn't enough? The talk you quoted speaks of praying together, and diligently seeking the Lord together....What if he refuses to do that? What if he becomes so bitter against the Lord that he refuses any thing spiritual?

[tizzyk]

Lilered....Thank you for your words. I plan on getting a meeting with the bishop. Now, you did quote a talk on divorce...and I have read this talk before, and I do not plan on giving up on my husband any time soon. My fear is just that I would lose him anyway in the afterlife if he never returns to the church or if he leaves and dies before he can come back to the church. There are no children...we have only been married a year and a half. So do I live my life with him and hope he comes back only to lose him? I know that this is merely the beginning stages and I plan on doing everything I can to make things work. And for now there is hope, and as long as I have hope I guess I'll keep trying. But what if it isn't enough? The talk you quoted speaks of praying together, and diligently seeking the Lord together....What if he refuses to do that? What if he becomes so bitter against the Lord that he refuses any thing spiritual?

[tizzyk]

puf_the_magic_dragon ... Thank you very much for your perspective and thoughts. I really wish you could talk to my husband! And you are right...he is lost in himself and I am unsure how to help him. I am going to ask my bishop for help paying for marriage counseling....maybe that will help us.

[Guest missingsomething]

This probably wont help you - but I received a blessing once... that said... that my heavenly father would not without the blessings I have earned through living righteously and keeping my convenants and commitments of an eternal family. I know that this was specific to me... but I also know that heavenly father will not hold someone else's will against you. You will receive those blessings. I dont know how Heavenly father will work these out... but he says in D&C 101 that even though our joy is not full here... it will be full there. This is where the "faith" part comes in.

I also dont believe its just time to call quits. Would you please consider watching FIREPROOF... and if you like the concept... doing the love dare to your husband. (Find it at blockbuster).

Also, just continue to pray and be a good example. Remember, if Heavenly Father can turn ALma the younger around... there is hope for your husband.

I'll pray for you.

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

puf_the_magic_dragon ... Thank you very much for your perspective and thoughts. I really wish you could talk to my husband! And you are right...he is lost in himself and I am unsure how to help him. I am going to ask my bishop for help paying for marriage counseling....maybe that will help us.

I checked your profile - by Portland I assume Oregon? I'm in Colorado and ifyou're randomly close I can recommend a good therapist if you like, and he's a member. The trick is, no counselor no matter how good can help someone who doesn't want to change. A good LDS counselor *could* (maybe, possibly) help your husband see that he's miserable and to see that he does want change.

If you can arrange it, I'd be willing to talk with your husband. At the very least you could point him here and have him read my post, though I anticipate it might not get a positive reaction. The truth hurts and I have a habit of not pulling any punches.

There's a book I saw, it looked fun and interesting but I haven't yet decided it's worth 20 bucks. "Odds Are You're Going to be Exalted". Look it up. Right up both yours and his alleys.

[rameumptom]

You married him with the understanding that the two of you would serve each other within the Church. He's changing the rules and promises of marriage, and you need to make sure he's aware of that. For the marriage to still work, new rules need to be established, especially regarding Church. He must support you in your continual attendance, etc., as it isn't you that are changing, but him. Also, if you are planning on children, rules need to be established and agreed upon now on how they will be raised. Such issues, if he refuses to honor your commitments to the marriage and temple covenants, means he will not later honor your desire to raise the kids LDS. Get that clarified now, rather than later.

If he's a good husband and is supportive of you, then you will probably wish to stay with him. The day may come when he comes to his senses, repents, and returns. If not, make sure YOU stay faithful to your covenants. If your husband turns around, you will be blessed for staying faithful. If he does not turn around, the Lord will bless you with all the blessings of the sealing power, because of your own faithfulness.

[tizzyk]

Hey puf_the_magic_dragon. Yes, we're in Portland Oregon. Thanks for your thought though....I'm sure that the counselors here are perfectly fine...and like you said it depends on if he wants to change. He does seem to want to try...he said he'd try to work things through with me and to find his answers. He has agreed to go to church on his days off, and he's agreed to talk to the missionaries again and ask questions. He says that he doubts he'll be able to reconcile his problems with the church, but maybe...I'm a little afraid that he will just go through the motions and not really open his mind/heart to the Lord or the church...but again that's where faith and hope on my part comes in. Hopefully he finds his answers.

[tizzyk]

missingsomething....Yes I know that movie. My husband and I have watched it. It's a good concept. Let me assure you though...if anyone leaves this marriage it will not likely be me. I plan on sticking through this and doing everything I can. He said though that he might leave if he can't reconcile. I'm hoping that it doesn't come to that...I'm hoping that he doesn't give up on the marriage....because I don't plan on it.

[tizzyk]

Also, if you are planning on children, rules need to be established and agreed upon now on how they will be raised. Such issues, if he refuses to honor your commitments to the marriage and temple covenants, means he will not later honor your desire to raise the kids LDS. Get that clarified now, rather than later..

Rameumptom...thank you so much for your thoughts. Yes...we just begun to have that conversation about kids. He's not sure how it will work out...and he's not sure if we will have kids. He is not a fan of a split household with children....he doesn't want it to affect the children. I asked him if he would allow me to take the children to church....and he said "as long as I get to teach them my religion to"...I asked what that meant and he told me that he would teach them how to be a christian and how to study from just the bible. It's a very sticky situation...one that I had not wanted to get into. I never wanted to marry a non-member...and I thought I hadn't. But, he is the man I chose, and I will stay by his side and pray and hope that one day he will come back to the church. I really hope it doesn't have to come to a split religion familiy with kids. I know how confusing and hard it will be. I also asked him about whether or not he would still read the scriptures and pray with me and the children. He said only if we were reading the bible. I also asked about family home evening...and he said no at first because it is a mormon thing...but then he said he would do it if we only study from the bible and we don't use talks from the mormon prophets or read from the Book of Mormon or anything like that.

This has really been a blow to me...and I pray that it will work out...because the church is such a big part of my life and it saddens me that I can't share that with the one I love. Like I said, hopefully he comes around...it just sucks that it had to be this way. But don't worry...if anything I will not turn away from the Lord or his church. ....If anything this will make me more diligent in my faithfulness as I immerse myself in spiritual things...every fast and every prayer, every temple session...I will go with my thoughts of my husband and my personal prayer that he will find the truth.

[Misshalfway]

First of all, this situation is difficult. It does bring some heart wrenching questions and threatens hopes and promises.

But....I guess I think that maybe your H needs to learn that it is ok to question. He has decided that mormons don't question or aren't allowed to. And I wonder if he has decided that for himself and doesn't see how his questioning self could be acceptable to mormon people. And now here he is spilling the beans honestly about his concerns and he sees you panic and freak out a bit and as you fear the worst. Can you see how you may be confirming his attitudes about mormons? You seem to agree that mormons do question....and that questioning and searching is ok, yet your actions are sending a completely different message as you outline his unrighteous attitudes. He feels like the bad guy.....a sinner. And there isn't anything that brings out the defenses more than that. And I am not sure, in light of his history, if he isn't feeling exactly as he should right now.

Look. Is there anything you can do to carve out a safe place for him to wrestle with his testimony and his past pain WITHOUT condemnation? Can you be OK with his process and greet his concerns with understanding rather than panic? He needs someone to meet him where he is today. Testimonies aren't built in a day. None of us are done building ours. And, if mormons stop growing in the gospel, then they aren't moving along the straight and narrow no matter how many meetings they attend.

I found a website that I think is awesome. It is StayLDS.com. It is a community of people who have experienced a crisis of faith but who might want to stay LDS or who need to learn how to question without such absolutes in their thinking. Maybe he would feel welcome there or find a soft place to fall with regards to this.

I also think that it might be important to try and understand that maybe he does see the world differently than you do because of his past. In my experience, it sometimes takes many years into adulthood to fully process and finally lay to rest childhood trauma, especially when that trauma interfers with proper emotional development. And when pain is involved, God/religion can be all woven and mixed up in it. It is also my experience that sometimes mormons can be very intolerant of processes like this, which imho is not the will or mind of God.

So I guess what I am saying is to try to understand your H where he is today. Maybe it was finally time, or he was finally ready to deal with all his real feelings. Don't worry about the here after. All that sealing "what if" stuff just isn't important right now. What is important is HOW you are going to deal with this trial. All of us deal with impossibly hard stuff, dear. It's just your turn.

Edited July 28, 2009 by Misshalfway

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

Tizzy - go ahead and ask him if he can make a list of the questions that he has. It's very likely that the missionaries won't have any kind of experience dealing with this kind of thing and so they may not be very helpful. But if he can write down some of his questions, you can send them to me and I'll send you my responses. Writing them down would also be a good exercise for him to help him organize his thoughts and give direction to his search for answers.

If he has any trouble writing down or articulating his questions, don't be concerned. He may be looking for answers without even knowing what the question is. Give him some time to struggle with finding the questions; that struggle will help him appreciate and accept the answers when they come. Of course don't let him struggle too long and help him find those questions and once he has the questions - the answers should come pretty quickly.

:edit:

Misshalfway is right - you do need to be supportive of your husband in his search for answers. Make sure he understands that your fears and concerns are about losing your husband and NOT about his questioning. Stay with him and stay supportive and help him in his search as though you were searching too and you could grow closer from the experience.

Edited July 28, 2009 by puf_the_majic_dragon

[Misshalfway]

Well, and I just had one more thought and I hope I can convey it in a loving tone.

It seems to me that that your happy family, mormon ducks in a row family picture has been turned on its head. Seems your H had that experience growing up. Maybe this is an opportunity for you to experience a little glimpse into what your husband inherently feels when he compares himself to your expectations. He probably knows a lot about fear and unmet hopes.

[Misshalfway]

I was also just thinking that we who live comfortably in mormon land don't do well with familial (and other) circumstances that don't follow the program. In fact, I think we are down right intolerant and sometimes very judgmental and unkind. Yet, I think we mistake because the gospel of jesus....the atonement of Jesus....the eternal God who is in control of all of this caos IS big enough to cover all of it.

Maybe Tizzy this situation is gift for you NOT to be in the perfect mormon family picture anymore. Maybe you are being given an opportunity to taste what your husband knows so well about never getting what you need let alone what you want or hope for. Maybe this blow that is happening to you is just the thing you need to transport you out of the "mormon" church mentality and into more of how God sees things.

[tizzyk]

Misshalfway....please do not mistake my fears of losing my husband in the afterlife for my judging my husband. I do not judge him, I do not blame him for his pain, I am not angry with him. I love him. I do not plan on giving up on him, or abandoning him. And I have not been attacking his right to question...I in fact told him to go ahead and question.... I know too well that some mormons are quite judgmental and not tolerant of outside thinking. My rant on this forum was simply my way of sorting out my own feelings...and gaining perspective from others. That being said, I thank you for your words, and your concern. And that website sounds worth checking out...so I will do so. I would hope that my actions do not confirm his fears....but please understand that the things I have said on this forum, I have not said to him....and like I said they were merely to help me sort my own feelings out without freaking out on my husband. I have made it clear to him that I want to work through our differences and our problems. We are going to do marriage counseling and this is not because of his lost faith but our communication problems and other problems that we have. We set up the appointment before he ever told me about his lost faith. And even if we were both strong in the church, as of right now....we would still be having problems...and that is what I was hoping to work through with marriage counseling.

[tizzyk]

puf_the_magic_dragon I again thank you. I will try your suggestion.

[lilered]

Lilered....Thank you for your words. I plan on getting a meeting with the bishop. Now, you did quote a talk on divorce...and I have read this talk before, and I do not plan on giving up on my husband any time soon. My fear is just that I would lose him anyway in the afterlife if he never returns to the church or if he leaves and dies before he can come back to the church. There are no children...we have only been married a year and a half. So do I live my life with him and hope he comes back only to lose him? I know that this is merely the beginning stages and I plan on doing everything I can to make things work. And for now there is hope, and as long as I have hope I guess I'll keep trying. But what if it isn't enough? The talk you quoted speaks of praying together, and diligently seeking the Lord together....What if he refuses to do that? What if he becomes so bitter against the Lord that he refuses any thing spiritual?

tizzyk: I am a big advocate of personal prayer and fasting. I would suggest that you take your concerns to the Lord in prayer and fasting and pray that your husbands heart may be touched and softened. That his questions may be answered etc.. I would eccourage you to continue on living the gospel, obeying the commandments and do your best to win your salvation and be the best person you can be. The Lord will take care of the rest.

If he refuses and continues on the path he has chosen, then you have done everything you can do, he still has his free agency and will have to answer for his choices. Sisters have been promised that the Lord is merciful and understanding and blessings in the Celestial Kingdom will not be withheld if you are worthy.

[tizzyk]

Thank you lilered. I plan on doing just that. I know that if I let it...this could cause me to fall short and give up. But I am a fighter...and the Lord and His promised blessings to me if I am righteous is far too important to me for me to give it up. I know the following years to come will be difficult and I know my husband has his own agency...but I will never give up on him or our marriage...I only hope that he will do the same.

Thank you for your reassuring words. I will not lose out if I am faithful. What will pain me is...if my husband will lose his blessings. I love him so much and I want him to have eternal happiness...I pray that he will obtain it. Only time will tell. And don't worry...I plan to make every prayer/fast/temple session I attend have a purpose which is to pray and fast for my husband and that he may find his answers and have his heart softened....and that we will have the strength to endure to the end and recieve of eternal hapiness.

Thank you again.

[foreverafter]

I got married in the temple, I wanted, and still do want, an eternal marriage...but if he leaves the church doesn't that effectively delete our celestial marriage? I mean if he does not fulfill his covenants, but I do everything I can to fulfill mine...do we stay sealed and in the eternity he'll come around....or will I go through life with him, only to lose him in death and be given another?

Yes, in the eternities he will definately come around, they all will who go astray. Though, the more loving you are, they more he may regain his faith in God in this life. Nothing can break your sealing & marriage to him, not him, nor any court in the land or even God can't (for he is bound to give you your husband in eternity) as long as you are faithful to your covenants to God & your husband & unconditionally love & care for & try to make your husband happy in every way, despite any weaknesses & sins he may have or acquire later in consequence of losing his testimony. For he likely will fall further. But most husbands have trouble keeping their covenants to their wife, & many wives do too, but the Church says to never give up on our errant spouses, no matter what.

The Prophets have taught many times & I was also personally told by very high authority & someone who is about as near to the Prophet as you can get, that "our sealing absolutely guarantees us our spouse forever." He said it's vital that we understand this & how powerful the sealing is.

If a spouses's sins broke the sealing then most all married people would be staying in their marriages for nothing, because in most all marriages one or the other spouse breaks their covenants at some point. Does the Church say to leave & find someone new as soon as your spouse sins? No, they say never break your covenants because they know that the sealing is stronger than the adversary's snares that entangle our spouses & someday they will repent & make restitution & be with us eternally if we ourselves stay faithful through it all & want them with us.

If marriage didn't guarantee us our spouse forever (as long as we ourselves stay faithful), than marriage would be the most risky & unwise thing to invest our heart & life & children's lives in. We would receive no reward for all our love & sacrifice, only heartache for the one we loved & lost. And thus most marriages would be for nothing, for usually one spouse is holding it all together while the other is indifferent or unrighteous.

Thankfully, faithfulness to the marriage vow guarantees us our spouse forever, no matter what religion we are, or no religion at all. For someday even non members who had True Love & were faithful to their spouse, will get to be sealed to their spouse forever. No woman in her right mind would marry & give her life & give true love for "a maybe" or "IF" the other stays righteous, for few husbands do. Heavenly Father does not toy with our hearts. His promises are sure & when he gives us a spouse they are ours forever & can't be ever taken away or really leave or divorce us. The only thing that can break your sealing to him & thus lose him is your own unrighteousness.

Rest assured he is all yours, no matter what he does or where he may go. The sad thing is that if he doesn't repent here on earth, he will have to go through a long & very painful process in Spirit Prison to get back on track, before he can join you in the Celestial Kingdom. He may have also lost his Exaltation (for that must be individually earned) but still get to be with you & serve you as your ministering angel/husband for eternity.

On the questioning issue; it seems true that most members wait to be commanded in all things & few question authority & find out on their own if the council they are given is right or not. Tell your husband that Heavenly Father will answer any & all questions he has, if he will put forth the time to study the scriptures & pray. But to be sure that our inspiration is right it must agree with what the Prophets have said, they are our Iron Rod so we aren't led astray by the wrong spirit. So many people are deceived to feel inspired to do things against the teachings of the Prophets because they feel their situation is different & feel their revelation is from God telling them it's ok to do something.

Edited July 29, 2009 by foreverafter

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

Yes, in the eternities he will definately come around, they all will who go astray. Though, the more loving you are, they more he may regain his faith in God in this life. Nothing can break your sealing & marriage to him, not him, nor any court in the land or even God can't (for he is bound to give you your husband in eternity) as long as you are faithful to your covenants to God & your husband & unconditionally love & care for & try to make your husband happy in every way, despite any weaknesses & sins he may have or acquire later in consequence of losing his testimony. For he likely will fall further. But most husbands have trouble keeping their covenants to their wife, & many wives do too, but the Church says to never give up on our errant spouses, no matter what.

The Prophets have taught many times & I was also personally told by very high authority & someone who is about as near to the Prophet as you can get, that "our sealing absolutely guarantees us our spouse forever." He said it's vital that we understand this & how powerful the sealing is.

If a spouses's sins broke the sealing then most all married people would be staying in their marriages for nothing, because in most all marriages one or the other spouse breaks their covenants at some point. Does the Church say to leave & find someone new as soon as your spouse sins? No, they say never break your covenants because they know that the sealing is stronger than the adversary's snares that entangle our spouses & someday they will repent & make restitution & be with us eternally if we ourselves stay faithful through it all & want them with us.

If marriage didn't guarantee us our spouse forever (as long as we ourselves stay faithful), than marriage would be the most risky & unwise thing to invest our heart & life & children's lives in. We would receive no reward for all our love & sacrifice, only heartache for the one we loved & lost. And thus most marriages would be for nothing, for usually one spouse is holding it all together while the other is indifferent or unrighteous.

Thankfully, faithfulness to the marriage vow guarantees us our spouse forever, no matter what religion we are, or no religion at all. For someday even non members who had True Love & were faithful to their spouse, will get to be sealed to their spouse forever. No woman in her right mind would marry & give her life & give true love for "a maybe" or "IF" the other stays righteous, for few husbands do. Heavenly Father does not toy with our hearts. His promises are sure & when he gives us a spouse they are ours forever & can't be ever taken away or really leave or divorce us. The only thing that can break your sealing to him & thus lose him is your own unrighteousness.

Rest assured he is all yours, no matter what he does or where he may go. The sad thing is that if he doesn't repent here on earth, he will have to go through a long & very painful process in Spirit Prison to get back on track, before he can join you in the Celestial Kingdom. He may have also lost his Exaltation (for that must be individually earned) but still get to be with you & serve you as your ministering angel/husband for eternity.

On the questioning issue; it seems true that most members wait to be commanded in all things & few question authority & find out on their own if the council they are given is right or not. Tell your husband that Heavenly Father will answer any & all questions he has, if he will put forth the time to study the scriptures & pray. But to be sure that our inspiration is right it must agree with what the Prophets have said, they are our Iron Rod so we aren't led astray by the wrong spirit. So many people are deceived to feel inspired to do things against the teachings of the Prophets because they feel their situation is different & feel their revelation is from God telling them it's ok to do something.

That's a nice sentiment but: Doctrine and Covenants 132 39 "David’s wives and concubines were given unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the keys of this power; and in none of these things did he sin against me save in the case of Uriah and his wife; and, therefore he hath fallen from his exaltation, and received his portion; and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I gave them unto another, saith the Lord."

God can DEFINITELY break a sealing. I think the sealing power itself is not well understood among most saints, and it's not well documented even on LDS.org. Some of the other things you mention also don't quite resonate with me either. I have heard that the sealing power *can* help lift someone up who has fallen, but how this is done, under what circumstances it's possible, and how far a person can be lifted are not obvious. After participating in this thread I've been meaning to do some hard core research on just this subject but haven't had the time yet. In any case, as much as we'd like to believe otherwise, without some hard core scriptural evidence, I'm afraid what you have said remains, in my opinion, just theory.

[tizzyk]

Rest assured he is all yours, no matter what he does or where he may go. The sad thing is that if he doesn't repent here on earth, he will have to go through a long & very painful process in Spirit Prison to get back on track, before he can join you in the Celestial Kingdom. He may have also lost his Exaltation (for that must be individually earned) but still get to be with you & serve you as your ministering angel/husband for eternity.

I'm not sure that make sense to me. If he loses his exaltation and is with me for eternity...but only as a ministering angel....how would we progress in the eternities? Aren't you suppose to be able to, if you make it to the celestial kingdom, progress and become perfect and receive of exaltation...and become Gods of our own worlds...etc. ??? If one of the spouses loses their exaltation.... how would you be able to do that? The husband and wife are suppose to become like one right? How would the do that if one has exaltation and one doesn't?

Also.....for those people who had abusive spouses or spouses that left them for another person....etc etc....if the sealing truly could never be broken wouldn't they be stuck with an abusive, cheating, etc spouse for all eternity? It would seem to be counterproductive.....and also if a spouse can be lifted up by your righteousness then someone who committed a horrible sin (and whom never repented from it) could still end up in the celestial kingdom if you made it there. It doesn't seem to make sense to me.

I know that in the end...God will sort things out....and every individual is different and only He can judge. I guess I'll just have to hope and pray and leave the rest to Him. I just hope that my husband doesn't decide to leave and give up....there's not much I can do if he decides to leave.

Edited July 29, 2009 by tizzyk

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

Hence why I'm scowering lds.org and other sites for answers instead of going to bed when I have to get up for work in 7 hours.

The gist of what I've read so far is pretty clear - if you don't live up to your covenants, you don't get the blessings - period. To elaborate - the union is not "sealed" on the date of your wedding but is sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise by your obedience AFTER the ceremony. LDS.org - New Era Article - Celestial Marriage is one good read for more info. I've got 8 or 10 more articles but I plan on providing a more detailed summary once I get all these ducks in a row.

Finding information on what sealing actually does, apart from a spiffy temple ceremony, is REALLY hard....

[tizzyk]

puf_the_magic_dragon ... Wow...thank you...you don't have to lose sleep over this though...it's not your problem. But I appreciate whatever you kind find. I'll search too.