Would You Care?

[Shawn]

Just taking a poll. On a scale of 1 to 10, how much anxiety and trouble would you experience if Gordon B Hinckley announced that the BOM will no longer be considered scripture to members of the Church?

Thanks,

Shawn

[Winnie G]

That is just dumb, and it would not happen since the cornerstone of the church is and always will be the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith as a prophet of the Lord.

[Shawn]

Thank you for the input. But did you need to preface it with commentary on how dumb my question was? Isn't that rude? I really don't mean to be dumb. I just know there are some people who wonder about the veracity of the BOM but remain members of the church.

[Lindy]

Originally posted by Shawn@Jul 15 2005, 09:07 PM

Just taking a poll. On a scale of 1 to 10, how much anxiety and trouble would you experience if Gordon B Hinckley announced that the BOM will no longer be considered scripture to members of the Church?

Thanks,

Shawn

Shawn~

If you know anything about the members on this board...you will know that Winnie G speaks her mind...something we all love about her.

To answer your question...there are those who have had inner struggles with what to believe, or what not to believe. But I expect that the adversary tries to manipulate the weaknesses and expound on the insecurities of those who try to stand strong in their beliefs.

I'm sure that as a "born again Mormon" you are trying to capitalize on any doubts, fears or worries that anyone has with their allegiance to the LDS faith.

Does it really annoy you that there are some who stand firm in what they believe? No matter what?

So don't expect a lot of scores to tally on your poll.

You may have better luck on one of the anti sites.

[Shawn]

Lindy,

Just trying to find the pulse of anything LDS - forums, chatrooms. face to face interviews. The stuff is interesting to me. It's what I do; my mission so to speak.

If you know anything about the members on this board...you will know that Winnie G speaks her mind...something we all love about her.

Because someone "speaks their mind" does not preclude another from stating that the manner in which they speak is rude. I won't retaliate or try attack her. I'm just pointing our her being rude in that circumstance.

To answer your question...there are those who have had inner struggles with what to believe, or what not to believe. But I expect that the adversary tries to manipulate the weaknesses and expound on the insecurities of those who try to stand strong in their beliefs.

Okay. I think this is true in many circumstances. But I also think open dialogue about what people's opinions are does not necessarily mean a discussion is of the adversary or that it has ulterior purpose.

I'm sure that as a "born again Mormon" you are trying to capitalize on any doubts, fears or worries that anyone has with their allegiance to the LDS faith.

You might be interested to know that I do not try an capitalize on anything of anyones unless I'm in an arguement with them. But I'm not in an arguement here. My initial question was really to hear what people would say. I've had two responses. That is great. I know what I think the majority of Latter-day Saints would say on this subject, but I thought I'd test the waters here. It's nothing earthshattering. Just a question for those who come to this site. The fact that the responses are low is not one bit of an indicator of it usefulness. I could get on some site (like the ones you suggested) and get my ego boosted all day long. This is not my desire. I really am just checking the pulse of this specific group. That's all. I understand the fear and skepticism regarding my post. But I thought it would be fun to ask.

Does it really annoy you when some stand firm in what they believe? No matter what?

Why is it assumed I am annoyed? Come on, be fair. Do you know I live with four members of the Church in peace and love and harmony. Do you know I support them in their decision to be Mormon? Did you know I spent all of 4th of July with 2 dozen Latter-day Saints and we all had a great time. Or that I have people email me about believing in Joseph and the BOM and loving Jesus completely and I do nothing but support their beliefs? I am not the least bit annoyed that people stand firm on what they believe. My specific mission in life is to get Latter-day Saints to look at their stated beliefs and see how important a role a life-changing relationship with Jesus Christ has in those beliefs.

If it's important, I move on. If they aren't sure, I speak. Simple as that.

By the way, are you spiritually reborn by faith in Jesus Christ, Lindy?

[john doe]

I don't think Winnie was being rude at all. Maybe you are being just a tad bit defensive? If you want rude, try conversing with some of the other anti trolls who come here and disagree with them.

I understand the fear and skepticism regarding my post. But I thought it would be fun to ask.

Fear and skepticism? Nah, it's just that your motives are so apparent that no one wants to bother with your inane question. We had a nice thread on internet trolls a few days ago and most choose not to feed your ego by responding to dumb questions. I'll play the dolt and bite for a moment since I'm bored right now, though.

I could get on some site (like the ones you suggested) and get my ego boosted all day long.

Feel free to visit them then, you will get a much more positive response to your clumsy attempts to discredit LDS.

My specific mission in life is to get Latter-day Saints to look at their stated beliefs and see how important a role a life-changing relationship with Jesus Christ has in those beliefs.

If you know anything about LDS at all, you should already know the answer to this. Maybe you don't know that Jesus is central to the LDS church. In fact, it's the name of the church. Maybe you just don't get it? Maybe you should try witnessing Jesus to Muslims or Jews, people who don't believe in Him. Instead of preaching Jesus to Christians you could try converting non-Christians to the Faith.

And thanks for playing, you didn't contribute much, but every little bit helps, at least for a minute. Oh, time's up, time to move on to reading worthwhile threads. Was that rude? Sorry, I just couldn't help myself.

[Shawn]

Dear John Doe,

How about you, John. Would you describe yourself as spiritually born-again?

IJA,

Shawn

[john doe]

Originally posted by Shawn@Jul 16 2005, 09:49 PM

Dear John Doe,

How about you, John. Would you describe yourself as spiritually born-again?

IJA,

Shawn

Of course. Again, thanks for playing.

[Lindy]

Originally posted by Shawn@Jul 16 2005, 08:24 PM

Lindy,

Just trying to find the pulse of anything LDS - forums, chatrooms. face to face interviews. The stuff is interesting to me. It's what I do; my mission so to speak.

By the way, are you spiritually reborn by faith in Jesus Christ, Lindy?

Shawn~

Okay. I think this is true in many circumstances. But I also think open dialogue about what people's opinions are does not necessarily mean a discussion is of the adversary or that it has ulterior purpose.

Oh...so your question doesn't have an "ulterior purpose"? There you go thinking again!

It's nothing earthshattering. Just a question for those who come to this site. The fact that the responses are low is not one bit of an indicator of it usefulness. I could get on some site (like the ones you suggested) and get my ego boosted all day long. This is not my desire. I really am just checking the pulse of this specific group. That's all. I understand the fear and skepticism regarding my post. But I thought it would be fun to ask.

Not earthshattering huh? Maybe you havent' talked to very many people who have turned their back and walked away from the LDS faith because of someone who helped shatter their world with words. Sorry if I am a bit skeptical about your post Shawn....I didn't think it as fun.

Why is it assumed I am annoyed? Come on, be fair.

Ok...in all fairness I think that you can't stand the fact that there are some who continue to keep their faith and trust in that faith...and it ANNOYS you...so you wanted to do something to alleviate that annoyance

Did you know I spent all of 4th of July with 2 dozen Latter-day Saints and we all had a great time. Or that I have people email me about believing in Joseph and the BOM and loving Jesus completely and I do nothing but support their beliefs?

Good for you Shawn.....you get the prize for all around nice guy!! No wait a minute......Setheus....you still here? B)

I am not the least bit annoyed that people stand firm on what they believe. My specific mission in life is to get Latter-day Saints to look at their stated beliefs and see how important a role a life-changing relationship with Jesus Christ has in those beliefs.

If it's important, I move on. If they aren't sure, I speak. Simple as that.

Soooo, you do capitalize on the weakness of others! It seems to me that you have made it a mission to zero in on weak testimonies of the Latter-Day Saints and try to destroy the fledging faith they have. Sneaky Shawn very sneaky

I'm not being rude...just stating my mind if you wanted to know.

Oh, and to answer the top question....Of course I am, are you? And as John Doe said... "Thanks for playing" !

[Guest lt]

Originally posted by Shawn@Jul 15 2005, 09:07 PM

Just taking a poll.  On a scale of 1 to 10, how much anxiety and trouble would you experience if Gordon B Hinckley announced that the BOM will no longer be considered scripture to members of the Church?

Thanks,

Shawn

It would never happen.The book of mormon is the foundation to what the church stands on. The president of the church would never do that, I assure you of that with all my heart.....Any other questions

I do however question the sincerety of your post, this is not a site to come onto to try and get ldsto change there faith. We have several anti here that have been here for years...and they know that those who are here will not change there faith, just as we are not pushing them to change there's...It's called R_E_S_P_E_C_T and thats something you do here if you are christ like...So please get to the point of your question, if you are trolling.....go do it at christianforums.com....they enjoy that stuff we dont. We treat others here the way we expect to be treated....Kindly ..

However as I said before: If you are sincere about your question explain?

[Maureen]

Originally posted by Shawn@Jul 15 2005, 09:07 PM

Just taking a poll.  On a scale of 1 to 10, how much anxiety and trouble would you experience if Gordon B Hinckley announced that the BOM will no longer be considered scripture to members of the Church?

Thanks,

Shawn

Shawn, it's not hard to guess that many here would not take your question seriously. It's like if you went to a Catholic or Protestant site and asked a similar question:

On a scale of 1 to 10, how much anxiety and trouble would you experience if the Pope (or Protestant pastor of a congregation) announced that the Bible will no longer be considered scripture to members of this Church?

When you re-word the question it to fit a different but similar kind of setting it makes it more clear why you would get a indifferent or incredulous reaction.

So Shawn, what would be your answer to my re-wording of your question?

M.

[Shawn]

On a scale of 1 to 10, how much anxiety and trouble would you experience if the Pope (or Protestant pastor of a congregation) announced that the Bible will no longer be considered scripture to members of this Church?

I would be as sad as I would to hear the bom to be false, but since we know neither will happen be can be happy

and thank you for being sincere.... B)

[Lindy]

Originally posted by Shawn@Jul 19 2005, 05:57 PM

I would be as sad as I would to hear the bom to be false, but since we know neither will happen be can be happy

and thank you for being sincere.... B)

OK Shawn....you have just risen a few notches in my book..... Good choice of words :) Just thought you should know that! B)

[Shawn]

The latest post by SHAWN was not by Shawn at all. I don't use icons and those are not my words.

SHAWN

[Lindy]

Originally posted by Shawn@Jul 19 2005, 07:18 PM

The latest post by SHAWN was not by Shawn at all.  I don't use icons and those are not my words.

SHAWN

perhaps the posting was made by your twin brother Sean?.... Oh....how quickly they rise and BOOM....right back to the bottom again!

[Snow]

Originally posted by Maureen+Jul 19 2005, 07:53 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Maureen @ Jul 19 2005, 07:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Shawn@Jul 15 2005, 09:07 PM

Just taking a poll.  On a scale of 1 to 10, how much anxiety and trouble would you experience if Gordon B Hinckley announced that the BOM will no longer be considered scripture to members of the Church?

Thanks,

Shawn

Shawn, it's not hard to guess that many here would not take your question seriously. It's like if you went to a Catholic or Protestant site and asked a similar question:

On a scale of 1 to 10, how much anxiety and trouble would you experience if the Pope (or Protestant pastor of a congregation) announced that the Bible will no longer be considered scripture to members of this Church?

When you re-word the question it to fit a different but similar kind of setting it makes it more clear why you would get a indifferent or incredulous reaction.

So Shawn, what would be your answer to my re-wording of your question?

M.

I don't think the question is a dumb one nor should the response be one of credulity.

For example: The majority of Christianity no longer looks at the Bible with the same infallible, uncritical eye. The vast majority of non-Orthodox Jewish Rabbis now recognize the bible at not-literally-true.

There are LDS intellectuals who think that the day is not far off when the Church will be forced into giving an answer to such a question, the which will result in a paradigm shift in LDS testimonies. I, personally, don't agree, but to dismiss it , as did Winnie, with the "dumb" stick is rather narrow - if I wasn't is such a pleasant mood I would have said "dumb" instead of "narrow."

[Shawn]

Thank you, Snow. I appreciate your insight to what I was asking and for putting the question in better context. You've given me a shot of hope I was just about out of in this forum.

Shawn

[Maureen]

Originally posted by Snow@Jul 19 2005, 08:17 PM

I don't think the question is a dumb one nor should the response be one of credulity.

For example: The majority of Christianity no longer looks at the Bible with the same infallible, uncritical eye. The vast majority of non-Orthodox Jewish Rabbis now recognize the bible at not-literally-true.

There are LDS intellectuals who think that the day is not far off when the Church will be forced into giving an answer to such a question, the which will result in a paradigm shift in LDS testimonies. I, personally, don't agree, but to dismiss it , as did Winnie, with the "dumb" stick is rather narrow - if I wasn't is such a pleasant mood I would have said "dumb" instead of "narrow."

Yes but, what is the chance that a major leader of a religion would so abruptly make such an announcement. If any such change in attitude toward scripture were to happen I believe it would be a very gradual change.

M.

[Guest lt]

Oh My...Sorry shawn I thought I hit quote, my bad, I was actually replying to you...I do appologise

[Guest lt]

Originally posted by Maureen+Jul 20 2005, 08:52 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Maureen @ Jul 20 2005, 08:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Snow@Jul 19 2005, 08:17 PM

I don't think the question is a dumb one nor should the response be one of credulity.

For example: The majority of Christianity no longer looks at the Bible with the same infallible, uncritical eye. The vast majority of non-Orthodox Jewish Rabbis now recognize the bible at not-literally-true.

There are LDS intellectuals who think that the day is not far off when the Church will be forced into giving an answer to such a question, the which will result in a paradigm shift in LDS testimonies. I, personally, don't agree, but to dismiss it , as did Winnie, with the "dumb" stick is rather narrow - if I wasn't is such a pleasant mood I would have said "dumb" instead of "narrow."

Yes but, what is the chance that a major leader of a religion would so abruptly make such an announcement. If any such change in attitude toward scripture were to happen I believe it would be a very gradual change.

M.

I agree maurren, I also think it would happen over time. I don't believe it would happen all at once because the shock would be to great to some.

However there always will be some change just because times have changed.

[Shawn]

I think the question of whether or not such an announcement would be quick or slow is pretty much besides the point. The question was, "How would it affect you if such a thing was announced?" I'm reminded of when news about the Salamander Letters were considered true. There was little to no fallout from that news form the general membership and I just doubt that there would be any fallout from a similarly shocking announcement about the BOM. Again, and I know I'm pushing the point, but would you really leave the Church? What if there is significant discoveries regarding DNA and the BOM? What if there is a significant finding relative to anachronistic difficulties that cannot be overcome regarding the BOM and the brethren decide to take this stand? Really, how would this affect your MEMBERSHIP, ACTIVITY, and the LIKE?

Shawn

[john doe]

The weak will fall, the strong will survive and continue on.

[Shawn]

John Doe:

That was a profound message. I mean it. But to what are you ascribing it to? Are you saying the weak (those who'd leave the Church) and the strong (those who would stay) would continue? If so, can I guess that you would be one of the strong? Just curious. (By the way, John Doe of X is a favorite songwriter of mine. I don't know if there is any connection to your name here, but I thought I'd add this in for flavor.)

IJA,

Shawn

[Snow]

Originally posted by Maureen+Jul 20 2005, 07:52 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Maureen @ Jul 20 2005, 07:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Snow@Jul 19 2005, 08:17 PM

I don't think the question is a dumb one nor should the response be one of credulity.

For example: The majority of Christianity no longer looks at the Bible with the same infallible, uncritical eye. The vast majority of non-Orthodox Jewish Rabbis now recognize the bible at not-literally-true.

There are LDS intellectuals who think that the day is not far off when the Church will be forced into giving an answer to such a question, the which will result in a paradigm shift in LDS testimonies. I, personally, don't agree, but to dismiss it , as did Winnie, with the "dumb" stick is rather narrow - if I wasn't is such a pleasant mood I would have said "dumb" instead of "narrow."

Yes but, what is the chance that a major leader of a religion would so abruptly make such an announcement. If any such change in attitude toward scripture were to happen I believe it would be a very gradual change.

M.

Personally I think that the chances are effectively zilch that the LDS Church would suddenly drop the BoM as true scripture but I think the CoCC could, in a relatively short time, move to such a position.

Beliefs in many major churches have changed dramatically - perhaps graduallly, but dramatically nevertheless so it's a good academic question - the answer to which would probably be schism - as in the RLDS when women were ordained to the priesthood.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Shawn@Jul 20 2005, 04:24 PM

I think the question of whether or not such an announcement would be quick or slow is pretty much besides the point. The question was, "How would it affect you if such a thing was announced?" I'm reminded of when news about the Salamander Letters were considered true. There was little to no fallout from that news form the general membership and I just doubt that there would be any fallout from a similarly shocking announcement about the BOM.

They are two seperate questions. Mormons were not bothered by the Salamander letter because most Mormons aren't idiots and understand that it was most certainly bogus or at the very least, explainable in a way that wouldn't fundamentally alter the way the we have to consider the Church as true.

The hypothetical BoM issue you proposed would force people to fundamentally alter the way they consider the Church to be true or maybe even then consider it false.