Proof Of The Book Of Mormon

[elinz]

I could guess.

Maybe Joseph Smith was holding a gun to their heads?

"Lookey here folks, you better sign this or your brains

are gunna be splattered all over da wall"

"Do ya hears me?"

"And if I hears you talkin to anybody about this you're

gunna get it!"

Okay, okay, the Italian accent could go, but it does

make for some good anti-mormon fiction!

[Guest antishock82003]

Originally posted by elinz@Feb 16 2004, 02:45 PM

I could guess.

Maybe Joseph Smith was holding a gun to their heads?

"Lookey here folks, you better sign this or your brains

are gunna be splattered all over da wall"

"Do ya hears me?"

"And if I hears you talkin to anybody about this you're

gunna get it!"

Okay, okay, the Italian accent could go, but it does

make for some good anti-mormon fiction!

Hey, another glib answer! AND the number 1 TTC. Not bad, you're getting the hang of it. Keep it up and you'll be Mormon for life!

[Tr2]

QUOTE (Tr2 @ Feb 16 2004, 05:30 AM)

Show me irrefutable facts.

YOU show me those facts you just slurrrrred over.

What in the world are you talking about? I know that you are not one of the brighter mormons here, and you are certainly proving that now. I have no idea what facts you said I slurred over. If you cannot provide some facts that prove the BoM to be historically accurate then give them, otherwise stop wasting my time with your senseless babbling.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Tr2@Feb 16 2004, 03:13 PM

QUOTE (Tr2 @ Feb 16 2004, 05:30 AM)

Show me irrefutable facts.

YOU show me those facts you just slurrrrred over.

What in the world are you talking about? I know that you are not one of the brighter mormons here, and you are certainly proving that now. I have no idea what facts you said I slurred over. If you cannot provide some facts that prove the BoM to be historically accurate then give them, otherwise stop wasting my time with your senseless babbling.

Well I sure am glad you realize you are wasting my time!

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Tr2@Feb 16 2004, 03:13 PM

QUOTE (Tr2 @ Feb 16 2004, 05:30 AM)

Show me irrefutable facts.

YOU show me those facts you just slurrrrred over.

What in the world are you talking about? I know that you are not one of the brighter mormons here, and you are certainly proving that now. I have no idea what facts you said I slurred over. If you cannot provide some facts that prove the BoM to be historically accurate then give them, otherwise stop wasting my time with your senseless babbling.

Here are those facts you just slurred over. Not one documentation! You want to show me the valuable literature quoted from.

Then state clearly and in full what doctrines have been adapted fvrom the same source.

Then show what we accept and what we don't in this reference you are going to provide.

etc.....all the way through these.....okay...then lets talk.

1) Joseph Smith was quoted from LDS literature if I am not mistaken. Where he was quoted is considered valuable to mormons and their history. Certain doctrines have been adapted from the same source. Why do we except some and not others, other than to preserve your public image? Is it because you only believe what you'd like to believe? Could it be that Smith was, at times, a blithering idiot when he opened his mouth?

2) The "latest material" published by the LDS church is not scientifically based, nor scientifically accurate. It is full of partial truths and partial facts. They are unfounded and non-factual opinions. Most mormon research is not recognized by anyone other than the mormon church. Your "proof" is not recognized by anyone who doesn't want to believe what you believe. History is based upon facts that are understood by people who may not like what those facts are. Mormon history has never been validated by an independent critic who has objectivity

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by antishock82003+Feb 16 2004, 02:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (antishock82003 @ Feb 16 2004, 02:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Peace@Feb 16 2004, 01:27 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--antishock82003@Feb 16 2004, 12:34 PM

Why did the three "witnesses" sign the same paper and not a personal account?  Especially since there "witnesses" came at different times?

Why not. It isn't important as you seem to make it out to be. What is it you really are after Anti?

Gee, one glib answer after another. What a surprise. Answer the question, Peace. Why did the three "witnesses" sign the same paper and not a personal account? Think about it.

Show me on place on this forum where you have learned anything and accepted any answer given to you anywhere.

Just show me that, and I will quit being so glib.

[Guest antishock82003]

I accepted Marsha's answer, and L's answer on the Kidnapping thread. So. Stop being so glib. Please answer the question.

[Tr2]

Peace,

Yo'd like me to justify my points, sure.

1) Joseph Smith claiming that the moon has people living on it: Young Woman's Journal, 3:1892, pp. 263-264. Are you telling me that LDS practices (doctrines or standards) have not been drawn from similar journals? Smith stating that people living on the moon, is more than proof that he is a complete moron.

2) I don't know of a lot of LDS publication that comes from historical materials. I cannot name much that is scientifically based. I don't know of a lot of mormon research that is recognized by institutions outside the LDS. Show me one researcher, who has total objectivity from the mormon church, who has validated mormonism's historical literature.

Now show me the irrefutable facts that I asked for. BTW, I won't hold my breath for you to answer. You are not the brightest mormon, and much smarter ones than you haven't been able to.

[Behunin]

Originally posted by Tr2@Feb 17 2004, 08:38 AM

Peace,

Yo'd like me to justify my points, sure.

1) Joseph Smith claiming that the moon has people living on it: Young Woman's Journal, 3:1892, pp. 263-264. Are you telling me that LDS practices (doctrines or standards) have not been drawn from similar journals? Smith stating that people living on the moon, is more than proof that he is a complete moron.

2) I don't know of a lot of LDS publication that comes from historical materials. I cannot name much that is scientifically based. I don't know of a lot of mormon research that is recognized by institutions outside the LDS. Show me one researcher, who has total objectivity from the mormon church, who has validated mormonism's historical literature.

Now show me the irrefutable facts that I asked for. BTW, I won't hold my breath for you to answer. You are not the brightest mormon, and much smarter ones than you haven't been able to.

Do you believe there is a latent spiritual or psychological evolution in man?

[elinz]

Evolution?

I think it's more like in the BoM.

People struggle to comprehend, they achieve

success, they get spoiled, lose their sight and

then are at risk of destruction.

Then it starts all over again, and again...

It's not linear.

[Traveler]

Originally posted by Tr2@Feb 17 2004, 07:38 AM

Peace,

Yo'd like me to justify my points, sure.

1) Joseph Smith claiming that the moon has people living on it: Young Woman's Journal, 3:1892, pp. 263-264. Are you telling me that LDS practices (doctrines or standards) have not been drawn from similar journals? Smith stating that people living on the moon, is more than proof that he is a complete moron.

Now show me the irrefutable facts that I asked for. BTW, I won't hold my breath for you to answer. You are not the brightest mormon, and much smarter ones than you haven't been able to.

You have got to be kiddin. Some little girl writes in her personal journal in 1892 that Joseph (who has been dead for almost fifty years) said something about men on the moon and you accept it as authority? This establishes doctrine? You are right about one thing your post does demonstrate exactly who is a complete moron and it is not Peace!!!

WHAT A JOKE!!!! I cannot believe you posted this.

The Traveler

[Tr2]

Traveller,

Then why do we have mormons supporting the notion that there could be people living on the moon?

[elinz]

As a newbie, I know I can't confirm or deny such things.

Why is it that the contentious issues always seem to be

the ones that are way out on the extreme frontier of

doctrines?

The motivation of the people who want to "discover"

the secret evil deception seems funny.

It reminds me a little of the way people today want so

desperately to prove that Bush intentionally lied about

WMD. Information was less than perfect, but the truth

was that whether the exact items were in place or not

is less important than the overall character of the threat.

It's possible to be such a perfectionist that you arrive

at the wrong conclusion because a detail trips you up.

There's even a name for using this as a weapon:

FUD : Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.

In war the goal is to get the enemy to experience FUD

because it does not allow them to complete any thoughts.

The enemy becomes paralyzed.

To be a leader requires the ability to look beyond the

static in order to see the larger picture.

Anyway, go can go back to calling each other morons now...

[Behunin]

Originally posted by elinz@Feb 17 2004, 09:33 PM

Evolution?

I think it's more like in the BoM.

People struggle to comprehend, they achieve

success, they get spoiled, lose their sight and

then are at risk of destruction.

Then it starts all over again, and again...

It's not linear.

I only ask if Tr2 believes it or not. I didn't imply whether it was linear or not. I don't think the success written of in the BoM is necessarily what I was asking about though. Don't get me wrong I agree. I think the people who lost their sight did not really evolve spiritually, that is why they lost their sight.

[elinz]

Sorry, it does seem it was directed more toward Tr2.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by antishock82003@Feb 17 2004, 05:58 AM

I accepted Marsha's answer, and L's answer on the Kidnapping thread. So. Stop being so glib. Please answer the question.

How can I answer a question of why a man, 170 or more years ago, did the witness thing one way and not the other?

Why don't you tell me why Lincoln decided to not listen to the warnings and went to the theater anyway? What do you know about what was going on in his head at that time?

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Tr2@Feb 17 2004, 08:52 PM

Traveller,

Then why do we have mormons supporting the notion that there could be people living on the moon?

What Mormons, other than Behunin and myself have said there might be people on the moon?

Joseph Smith might or might not have stated that there were, but do you really know what he was referring to and in what context?

If not, why worry about it?

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Tr2@Feb 17 2004, 07:38 AM

Peace,

Yo'd like me to justify my points, sure.

1) Joseph Smith claiming that the moon has people living on it: Young Woman's Journal, 3:1892, pp. 263-264. Are you telling me that LDS practices (doctrines or standards) have not been drawn from similar journals? Smith stating that people living on the moon, is more than proof that he is a complete moron.

2) I don't know of a lot of LDS publication that comes from historical materials. I cannot name much that is scientifically based. I don't know of a lot of mormon research that is recognized by institutions outside the LDS. Show me one researcher, who has total objectivity from the mormon church, who has validated mormonism's historical literature.

Now show me the irrefutable facts that I asked for. BTW, I won't hold my breath for you to answer. You are not the brightest mormon, and much smarter ones than you haven't been able to.

I can't see that anyone calling JS a moron has enough spiritual sense to deal with any more facts than has already been put out here.

And there are great University scholars who have given more credence to the Mormon 'literature' as you call it than you. And I don't consider that intelligent of you either.

So whose the moron.

I have watched at least 5 or more documentaries put out by the UofU that absolutely back the church history up....and they are as unbiased as they get....these documentaries of the Mormon history are researched out by non-mormons...some even ex-mormons.

I have seen interviews with other well educated men who have a high regard for the church and it's history.

I will grant you that 'some' historical facts have been over played while others were not mentioned when the church is presenting it's history...but that doesn't make it false, just biased.

I think you need to spend more time learning from other sources than the anit-mormon sites...you are getting so narrow and uneducated in your perspective.

[Behunin]

Originally posted by elinz@Feb 17 2004, 10:12 PM

Sorry, it does seem it was directed more toward Tr2.

Don't be sorry!!! I want anyone who wants to to make a comment. I just REALLY would like Tr2 to answer.

[Behunin]

Originally posted by Peace+Feb 18 2004, 12:40 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peace @ Feb 18 2004, 12:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Tr2@Feb 17 2004, 07:38 AM

Peace,

Yo'd like me to justify my points, sure.

1)  Joseph Smith claiming that the moon has people living on it: Young Woman's Journal, 3:1892, pp. 263-264. Are you telling me that LDS practices (doctrines or standards) have not been drawn from similar journals? Smith stating that people living on the moon, is more than proof that he is a complete moron.

2) I don't know of a lot of LDS publication that comes from historical materials. I cannot name much that is scientifically based. I don't know of a lot of mormon research that is recognized by institutions outside the LDS. Show me one researcher, who has total objectivity from the mormon church, who has validated mormonism's historical literature.

Now show me the irrefutable facts that I asked for. BTW, I won't hold my breath for you to answer. You are not the brightest mormon, and much smarter ones than you haven't been able to.

I can't see that anyone calling JS a moron has enough spiritual sense to deal with any more facts than has already been put out here.

And there are great University scholars who have given more credence to the Mormon 'literature' as you call it than you. And I don't consider that intelligent of you either.

So whose the moron.

I have watched at least 5 or more documentaries put out by the UofU that absolutely back the church history up....and they are as unbiased as they get....these documentaries of the Mormon history are researched out by non-mormons...some even ex-mormons.

I have seen interviews with other well educated men who have a high regard for the church and it's history.

I will grant you that 'some' historical facts have been over played while others were not mentioned when the church is presenting it's history...but that doesn't make it false, just biased.

I think you need to spend more time learning from other sources than the anit-mormon sites...you are getting so narrow and uneducated in your perspective.

Very Good Peace! This is why I always question intent. Does Tr2 really want answers, or is he just being contentious? I wonder this about AS also.

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Originally posted by Tr2@Feb 17 2004, 07:38 AM

Joseph Smith claiming that the moon has people living on it: Young Woman's Journal, 3:1892, pp. 263-264. Are you telling me that LDS practices (doctrines or standards) have not been drawn from similar journals?

This question is for ANYBODY.

Do any LDS practices (doctrines or standards) actually come from the Young Woman's Journal?

If yes, then we may need to take these statements about men on the moon more seriously.

If not, then we can ignore the Young Woman's Journal completely as rumors.

[Cal]

That JS may have thought that there were people living on the moon is not surprising. If you will research common "myths' of the times, you will find that a lot of people believed that. JS may have simply been echoing things he had heard others say.

[Cal]

I just read over 1 Nephi to see if I could find anything specific enough in the narration to justify being able to predict a route that Lehi may have taken---I find it way to sketchy and general to draw any conclusions other than a general southwest direction. I see no evidence that they took any specific route that JS would have either known or NOT known about. I think PD has it right.

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

So do any LDS practices (doctrines or standards) actually come from the Young Woman's Journal?

[Guest Starsky]

Do you have a link where I can study it?