Director of Affirmation Urges Mormons To stop Shunning Gay Family Members

[MormonMama]

I completely understand what you're saying, and you are very sadly misinformed and uneducated on the subject. If you are educated and just refuse to believe, then that is even sadder.

It is not being judgmental or closed-minded to point out to someone that their information is false. If you insist that you are right and the rest of the world is wrong and start name-calling anyone who disagrees with you, who is really being judgmental and closed-minded?

[Dravin]

AIDS is easily spread via bodily fluids...this would include saliva, mucous (coughing, sneezing), sharing the same toilet, etc.

Oh, I got it. Saliva and mucus are bodily fluids. Sharing the toilet isn't, though I suppose using the toilet does usually result (unless you are a guy urinating) in making contact with bodily fluids (sweat and oils, or possibly urine from the aforementioned guy). If you are saying that AIDS is easily spread via saliva, mucous or sharing the same toilet that is false.

Which means:

It (the above) is a falsehood.

You are spreading it.

Ergo: You are spreading falsehoods.

Edited September 21, 2009 by Dravin

[MrsAri]

I completely understand what you're saying, and you are very sadly misinformed and uneducated on the subject. If you are educated and just refuse to believe, then that is even sadder.

It is not being judgmental or closed-minded to point out to someone that their information is false. If you insist that you are right and the rest of the world is wrong and start name-calling anyone who disagrees with you, who is really being judgmental and closed-minded?

Obviously, you're not an expert in this field. You believe your sources; I believe mine. I'm neither misinformed, nor am I uneducated. If you just believe your sources, and refuse to investigate other sources, that is even sadder.

It is being judgmental and closed-minded to assume that someone else's information is false. If you insist that you are right and others are wrong and start name-calling anyone who disagrees with you, are you not are being judgmental and closed-minded?

[MrsAri]

Oh, I got it. Saliva and mucus are bodily fluids. Sharing the toilet isn't, though I suppose using the toilet does usually result (unless you are a guy urinating) in making contact with bodily fluids (sweat and oils, or possibly urine from the aforementioned guy). If you are saying that AIDS is easily spread via saliva, mucous or sharing the same toilet that is false.

Which means:

It (the above) is a falsehood.

You are spreading it.

Ergo: You are spreading falsehoods.

Again, you believe your sources; I believe mine.

How do you know your sources are correct and you're not spreading falsehoods?

[Dravin]

It is being judgmental and closed-minded to assume that someone else's information is false.

Aren't you assuming her information is false? The irony is delicious.

Again, you believe your sources; I believe mine.

You are free to do so, however what you believe doesn't influence the truth of your statement.

[MrsAri]

Aren't you assuming her information is false? The irony is delicious.

You are free to do so, however what you believe doesn't influence the truth of your statement.

Aren't you assuming that my information is false? Yes, it is most ironic. Of course, I am free to believe my sources. You're free to believe yours...even though I believe them to be false.

[bmy-]

Never assume to presume, nor presume to assume. You simply haven't a clue about me or my background.

Your statement revealed your ignorance -- I made no assumption.

Aren't you assuming that my information is false? Yes, it is most ironic. Of course, I am free to believe my sources. You're free to believe yours...even though I believe them to be false.

Your information is false based off peer reviews and AIDs being a major topic in my recent course on pathology/immunology. Here's a novel idea -- back up your statements with your 'sources' for the world to see. Do not forget that 'Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence'.. so hop to it. You seem to think that homosexuals are walking hypodermic needles.. and that's comical.

Edited September 22, 2009 by bmy-

[MrsAri]

Your statement revealed your ignorance -- I made no assumption.

Your information is false based off peer reviews and AIDs being a major topic in my recent course on pathology/immunology.

If you weren't assuming, then you were revealing your ignorance by falsely accusing me of spreading falsehoods. I was just giving you the benefit of the doubt.

You have no idea what my information is based on. And I don't care what yours is based on because I don't believe it.

[bmy-]

If you weren't assuming, then you were revealing your ignorance by falsely accusing me of spreading falsehoods. I was just giving you the benefit of the doubt.

You have no idea what my information is based on. And I don't care what yours is based on because I don't believe it.

I asked for you to share your sources.. you declined. How honest and reputable Put up or shut-up, basically. Validate your claims with evidence or admit them to be false. These are the rules of logic.

[MormonMama]

Obviously, you're not an expert in this field.

Depends on what you mean by "expert". I have training and work experience in this field. Do you?

You believe your sources; I believe mine. I'm neither misinformed, nor am I uneducated. If you just believe your sources, and refuse to investigate other sources, that is even sadder.

I have investigated many sources, for many years. So have many other people. Our information opposes yours. You are in the minority on this, and not just in these forums. Both sides can't be right.

It is being judgmental and closed-minded to assume that someone else's information is false.

By your very own definition you have just labeled yourself thusly.

Your statement revealed your ignorance -- I made no assumption.

Your information is false based off peer reviews and AIDs being a major topic in my recent course on pathology/immunology. Here's a novel idea -- back up your statements with your 'sources' for the world to see. Do not forget that 'Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence'.. so hop to it. You seem to think that homosexuals are walking hypodermic needles.. and that's comical.

Hear hear!!

[Dravin]

Aren't you assuming that my information is false? Yes, it is most ironic.

Just as long as you understand the irony inherent in calling yourself close-minded and judgmental.

You have no idea what my information is based on.

Other than it being false? No, I don't.

You're free to believe yours...even though I believe them to be false.

Yes, it is your prerogative to believe a falsehood.

[MormonMama]

You have no idea what my information is based on. And I don't care what yours is based on because I don't believe it.

The fact that you refuse to share your sources speaks volumes.

And how amusing that you have basically stated that you are not going to believe someone else's source no matter what it is. So before you've even studied a source for yourself, you're denying any possible truth in it? And you call yourself educated? Educated in what? Ostrich behavior?

[Dravin]

These are the rules of logic.

I highly doubt an appeal to logic is going to get you anywhere.

Ostrich behavior?

Don't go insulting ostriches like that, generally the only creature counterproductive enough to stick its head in the sand is humans.

[MrsAri]

I asked for you to share your sources.. you declined. How honest and reputable Put up or shut-up, basically. Validate your claims with evidence or admit them to be false. These are the rules of logic.

What a rude young man you are! I'm sure your parents would be proud.

It's really none of your business what my sources are... this isn't a debate team. It's a forum, where people may freely express their opinions without being shot down. I would expect better from a member of the Church!

Regarding this subject...I find your beliefs...as well as your caustic attitude...to be most illogical!

[MormonMama]

Don't go insulting ostriches like that, generally the only creature counterproductive enough to stick its head in the sand is humans.

Ah, true. Shame on me. I actually like ostriches. I find them adorable. I was simply going for the blatantly obvious reference, though I doubt even that could get the point across.

[MrsAri]

Depends on what you mean by "expert". I have training and work experience in this field. Do you?

I have investigated many sources, for many years. So have many other people. Our information opposes yours. You are in the minority on this, and not just in these forums. Both sides can't be right.

By your very own definition you have just labeled yourself thusly.

Hear hear!!

My dear, I have had many more years of experience and research than you have! It matters not that your information opposes mine. It matters not whether you think that I'm in the minority. And yes, I prefer to self-define... and align myself with that of "truthseeker".

Amen!

[MormonMama]

What a rude young man you are! I'm sure your parents would be proud.

I disagree. I think he has been extremely patient with you.

It's really none of your business what my sources are...

If you're going to insist that your sources are true and everyone else's are false, then you'd better be willing to provide those sources if you expect to be taken seriously.

I would expect better from a member of the Church!

Oh please, don't try to twist things around and try to call it bad behavior on the part of a church member because someone disagrees with you. What a desperate ploy to try and make someone feel ashamed when they've done nothing wrong.

Regarding this subject...I find your beliefs...as well as your caustic attitude...to be most illogical!

I actually laughed out loud when I read that! You sound like you're talking about yourself!

As for logic, you seem to have VERY little yourself, so I'd wouldn't be thinking I could judge anyone on that if I were you.

My dear, I have had many more years of experience and research than you have! It matters not that your information opposes mine. It matters not whether you think that I'm in the minority. And yes, I prefer to self-define... and align myself with that of "truthseeker".

How would you know if you have more experience and research than me? Neither of us has posted how many years, so you are making yet another assumption that may or may not be true.

As for being a "truthseeker", you've already admitted that you aren't interested in researching anything that could possibly upset your deeply held beliefs. You "don't care" about other people's sources because you already "don't believe them". I'd hardly call that truthseeking.

Amen!

Honestly, to see you use that word makes me want to throw up. I now feel like it's been tainted somehow. You make a lot of false statements, flat-out state that you are not interested in learning anything that might contradict what you already believe, refuse to state any sources for your beliefs, insist on spreading misinformation that could be potentially harmful to people, accuse other people of being judgmental and closed-minded for behavior that you are doing yourself, then follow all that up with an 'Amen'?! Sickening.

Edited September 22, 2009 by MormonMama

[MrsAri]

Just as long as you understand the irony inherent in calling yourself close-minded and judgmental.

Other than it being false? No, I don't.

Yes, it is your prerogative to believe a falsehood.

If your understanding of this matter is what you think I said which is not what I said at all, then so be it! lol

It is, of course, a woman's prerogative not only to change her mind, but to believe anything she wishes. And this woman believes the truth. :)

[beefche]

If your understanding of this matter is what you think I said which is not what I said at all, then so be it! lol

It is, of course, a woman's prerogative not only to change her mind, but to believe anything she wishes. And this woman believes the truth. :)

How selfish of you not to share what you know to be truth. Is this really how a member of the Church should act?

[MormonMama]

If your understanding of this matter is what you think I said which is not what I said at all, then so be it! lol

It is, of course, a woman's prerogative not only to change her mind, but to believe anything she wishes. And this woman believes the truth. :)

I'm beginning to believe that this person is either not playing with a full deck, or is deliberately trying to stir up as much trouble as possible. The fact that they actually thanked me in my previous post is making me lean towards the "short deck" explanation.

How selfish of you not to share what you know to be truth. Is this really how a member of the Church should act?

How do we know she's even a member? We have been taught to seek after knowledge, but she's already admitted that she refuses to do so.

Edited September 22, 2009 by MormonMama

[MrsAri]

I disagree. I think he has been extremely patient with you.

If you're going to insist that your sources are true and everyone else's are false, then you'd better be willing to provide those sources if you expect to be taken seriously.

Oh please, don't try to twist things around and try to call it bad behavior on the part of a church member because someone disagrees with you. What a desperate ploy to try and make someone feel ashamed when they've done nothing wrong.

I actually laughed out loud when I read that! You sound like you're talking about yourself!

As for logic, you seem to have VERY little yourself, so I'd wouldn't be thinking I could judge anyone on that if I were you.

How would you know if you have more experience and research than me? Neither of us has posted how many years, so you are making yet another assumption that may or may not be true.

As for being a "truthseeker", you've already admitted that you aren't interested in researching anything that could possibly upset your deeply held beliefs. You "don't care" about other people's sources because you already "don't believe them". I'd hardly call that truthseeking.

I disagree. I think he has been extremely rude.

I stand by my sources. If you're going to insist that my sources are wrong and yours are right, it really doesn't matter to me one iota!

Oh please, don't try to twist things around and try to call it anything other than bad behavior on the part of a church member when they're rude. What a desperate ploy to try and make someone feel justified when they're in the wrong.

I actually laughed out loud when I read that! You sound like you're talking about yourself!

As for logic, you seem to have VERY little yourself, so I'd wouldn't be thinking I could judge anyone on that if I were you.

How would you know if you have more experience and research than me? Neither of us has posted how many years, so you are making yet another assumption that may or may not be true.

You've already admitted that you aren't interested in researching anything that could possibly upset your deeply held beliefs. You "don't care" about other people's sources because you already "don't believe them".

[MrsAri]

How selfish of you not to share what you know to be truth. Is this really how a member of the Church should act?

I don't do shame.

[Dravin]

If your understanding of this matter is what you think I said which is not what I said at all, then so be it! lol

You did not say that those who assume another's sources are incorrect are judgmental and close minded?

It is being judgmental and closed-minded to assume that someone else's information is false.

Nope, you did, demonstrably so. Maybe you mean to say that you did say the above (the only reasonable claim in light of the evidence) but that you are not assuming that someone else's information is false?

You're free to believe yours...even though I believe them to be false.

Nope, without having seen sources you've assumed them false. Maybe you aren't assuming, that its only after careful review of sources you've reached that conclusion... oh wait, they haven't been shared, that can't be it.

Oh, I know, you are waiting for somebody to share them before you conclude them to be false.

And I don't care what yours is based on because I don't believe it.

Oh shoot, there goes that theory.

And this woman believes the truth. :)

That's demonstrably false. I'd demonstrate it of course, but you've already informed me that such would be an exercise in futility.

[MormonMama]

I disagree. I think he has been extremely rude.

I think you have been extremely rude.

I stand by my sources. If you're going to insist that my sources are wrong and yours are right, it really doesn't matter to me one iota!

Kind of hard for me to really judge your sources, since you won't provide them. That's a hallmark of someone who is afraid of being proven wrong.

And you seem to have trouble figuring out how to use the "quote" feature.

[MrsAri]

i'm beginning to believe that this person is either not playing with a full deck, or is deliberately trying to stir up as much trouble as possible. The fact that they actually thanked me in my previous post is making me lean towards the "short deck" explanation.

How do we know she's even a member? We have been taught to seek after knowledge, but she's already admitted that she refuses to do so.

lolololol