Taxes

[bytor2112]

Does anyone else find our income tax structure confusing, unfair and ridiculous? We have a progressive tax system that increases as your income increases. The lowest rate currently is 10% (soon to increase to 15% when the Bush tax cuts sunset, Obama's first major tax increase!).

In the tax code is woven loop holes. Ways to avoid paying taxes or more aptly, ways to keep more of the money that you earn. Other than child credits and standard deductions you can claim" itemized deductions". There are SO many deductions available that most tax paying citizens don't have any idea that they are available or how to claim them.

So, why not reform the tax code? Make it easier for everyone? I am all for paying taxes.......a fair amount and for appropriate use by the government ( just wish we could stop the waste). I am for a FAIR tax. A consumption tax.........you earn $75K, you take home $75K. You pay your taxes at the time of purchase. This would force people out of the shadows, no more under the table money, drug dealers would have to pay, etc. I would also be in favor of a flat tax, but then you would get right back in to the thick of it with deductions.

My wife and I are self employed and we are also incorporated. We don't take nearly the deductions that we should. I have recently discovered that I overpaid the government in 2006 and 2008 close to $30k. Think they want to give it back??????

Edited September 21, 2009 by bytor2112

[ryanh]

Does anyone else find our income tax structure confusing, unfair and ridiculous?

I'm a CPA. I've completed more than my fair share of business and personal tax returns. And, yes, I do find our structure confusing and ridiculous. I HATE doing my own tax returns! The system, as it is right now, is clearly broken.

[BenRaines]

Bytor, I am not a CPA but I believe you can refile an amended return and get back any overpayment within three years.

Ben Raines

[WindRiver]

The Book of Mormon calls some taxes "a tax which is grievous to be borne" and a 20% tax evil (Ether 10:5, Mosiah 7:15 and 11:3).....most of us are well over that 20% level by a factor of more than 100%, if you add up all the taxes - income, sales, property, communications (cellphones, land lines), restaurant / hotel taxes (higher than the local rate in some areas), "resort" taxes in some towns and other taxes that we aren't even aware that we are paying.......

To put salt in the wound, your tax dollars are now being used to pay for abortions worldwide, including "late term" abortions, which is far worse than what the kings in the Book of Mormon were using the taxes for.

Sadly a huge portion of tax money is wasted by the bureaucracy of the monster we call the Government and our elected and appointed leaders don't quite understand what it means to not spend more than you make. Our country is broke, yet the politicians continue to spend money we don't have with ill conceived ideas like "cash for clunkers" plus flat out evil activities like abortion.

ksl.com - Romney: Obama's spending weakening the country

"Romney said Obama's policies will greatly increase the deficit. He also said the spending is "bankrupting" the country and will lead to severe economic problems."

As for over paying your taxes, you should file an amended return. You can get back the over paid taxes though they won't pay you interest like they charge you if you are late in paying.

[ryanh]

Right Ben. 3 years. The latest you could have filed the 2006 return was 10/15/2006, so, you may still have time to amend that return. Don't delay looking into it. I'm not familar with the fine nuances of when the 3 year mark is reached.

Want to return it? Who cares. If you made a mistake, amend it and they have to give it back. I hope you haven't waited too long to amend.

[NeuroTypical]

Politicians use the tax code for two things: Social engineering, and getting re-elected. I don't think it's a realistic dream to get either out of the tax code.

[Guest Alana]

It is crazy, and I'll say that being on the receiving end. My husband and I make about 40k, split pretty evenly, his pay check has taxes taken out, mine doesn't. This means that at the end of the year we get over 5000 back (well last few years) after paying in about 2000. I'm not sure why the government wants to give us these thousands of dollars, but I'll take it...

[bytor2112]

Bytor, I am not a CPA but I believe you can refile an amended return and get back any overpayment within three years.

Ben Raines

Yes, I will likely have it applied to '09.

[bytor2112]

I find it fascinating that some "expenses" are deemed ok and considered a deduction while other expenses aren't. Why the heck should the government determine what is ok for you to spend your money on and what isn't????

[Maxel]

I find it fascinating that some "expenses" are deemed ok and considered a deduction while other expenses aren't. Why the heck should the government determine what is ok for you to spend your money on and what isn't????

Because people are too stupid to take care of themselves and need a king to rule over them and herd them like sheep. Not a spiritual king like God, mind you- an earthly king. Having God as one's king is just silly! He can't be seen and we can't know his mind- we need a good king to make sure we don't hurt ourselves with guns or too much money.

[/sarcasm]

[NeuroTypical]

I find it fascinating that some "expenses" are deemed ok and considered a deduction while other expenses aren't. Why the heck should the government determine what is ok for you to spend your money on and what isn't????

That's the social engineering aspect. If the US wants to encourage people to own their own homes, or give to charities, or save for retirement - they make mortgage payments and charitable contributions tax deductible, and they make 401K contributions pre-tax.

Are you in favor of giving up the mortgage deduction, or deducting tithing, or making 401K contributions taxable? If not, then apparently there is some social engineering you support.

LM

(anyone want to lobby for no more sin tax on cigarettes?)

[bytor2112]

It's obvious that the government understands that they take too much in taxes, so why make a game out of it and force tax payers to jump through so many hoops to prove they deserve what they work for.

Funny isn't...those who don't work and live off the dole.......free housing, medicaid, welfare check and even get a tax refund, despite the fact that they don't work versus those that do and make an error on there return and get nasty letters from the IRS.

[bytor2112]

That's the social engineering aspect. If the US wants to encourage people to own their own homes, or give to charities, or save for retirement - they make mortgage payments and charitable contributions tax deductible, and they make 401K contributions pre-tax.

Are you in favor of giving up the mortgage deduction, or deducting tithing, or making 401K contributions taxable? If not, then apparently there is some social engineering you support.

LM

(anyone want to lobby for no more sin tax on cigarettes?)

Yes....if it is a consumption tax. Incidentally, contributions to a 401k will be taxed when the funds are withdrawn.

[farmer]

Then we have the inheritance tax. Its KILLING future generations of farmers and ranchers.

[DigitalShadow]

Does anyone else find our income tax structure confusing, unfair and ridiculous? We have a progressive tax system that increases as your income increases. The lowest rate currently is 10% (soon to increase to 15% when the Bush tax cuts sunset, Obama's first major tax increase!).

In the tax code is woven loop holes. Ways to avoid paying taxes or more aptly, ways to keep more of the money that you earn. Other than child credits and standard deductions you can claim" itemized deductions". There are SO many deductions available that most tax paying citizens don't have any idea that they are available or how to claim them.

So, why not reform the tax code? Make it easier for everyone? I am all for paying taxes.......a fair amount and for appropriate use by the government ( just wish we could stop the waste). I am for a FAIR tax. A consumption tax.........you earn $75K, you take home $75K. You pay your taxes at the time of purchase. This would force people out of the shadows, no more under the table money, drug dealers would have to pay, etc. I would also be in favor of a flat tax, but then you would get right back in to the thick of it with deductions.

My wife and I are self employed and we are also incorporated. We don't take nearly the deductions that we should. I have recently discovered that I overpaid the government in 2006 and 2008 close to $30k. Think they want to give it back??????

After skimming the Wikipedia page on consumption tax, a few things stand out. It sounds like it is inherently a regressive tax (opposite of progressive tax) since poorer people pay spend proportionally more on their income on consumables.

Also, I'm not clear on whether paying employees would be taxed. If that is the case, you still wouldn't take home $75k since your employer would take his impending taxes into account and pay you much less.

I agree that the current tax system is ridiculously complex and broken and should be completely reformed, but I'm not sure to what.

[bytebear]

That's the social engineering aspect. If the US wants to encourage people to own their own homes, or give to charities, or save for retirement - they make mortgage payments and charitable contributions tax deductible, and they make 401K contributions pre-tax.

Are you in favor of giving up the mortgage deduction, or deducting tithing, or making 401K contributions taxable? If not, then apparently there is some social engineering you support.

LM

(anyone want to lobby for no more sin tax on cigarettes?)

Yes, no more taxes where they need not be. Taxation should be in as many instances a direct relationship to usage. Cigarette taxes are touted as paying for health care of cancer patients or going to schools or anti-smoking campaigns, but in reality the money is squandered or stolen when the economy gets bad and the bureaucracy can't give itself a tax cut or pension reduction.

If you want to smoke, fine. Just deal with the consequences when they come. If you want to inhibit smoking, start your own campaign and get your funds from donations.

The biggest problem with today's mentality on government intervention is that people forget that they can do things for themselves. Someone says, "hey, our kids are getting fat. Let's get the government to outlaw soda" when they should be rallying together and working directly with the school to remove soda from the cafeteria. Don't you realize you can solve the problem yourself without having to go to Washington?

I think it's a power thing personally. You want to stop people from using soda or cigarettes, and so you get the government to intervene, because you know you can steal other peoples' freedom, whereas if you do it yourself, you actually have to be convincing, and be supported by the community.

[Gatorman]

See, this is part of my health care debate as well. Personal responsibility. It is why I am for creating some new laws to allow those who can't afford to be able to choose to get it and to make sure those with pre existing conditions are able to get it. However, when they require that I get it, I have objection. Instead, governments roll is not to make me take care of myself, it is to make sure I have the freedom to choose it. In other words, if I choose not to have insurance, I am responsible for that fact and the doctors and hospitals should have every right to restrict the services they provide. My choice, my responsibility, my consequences.

Hence why I am okay with usage taxes. So, if someone wants to smoke, fine. Put taxes on the cigarettes and enforce those funds into healthcare to cover costs for secondary smoke damage. Also, allow insurance companies and hospitals/doctors to refuse to serve smokers who don't have insurance to cover their chosen damage.

[bytebear]

But every time we put aside tobacco taxes for such purposes, someone down the line transfers those funds to something else. Ideal if we could keep politicians honest. But then that's the difference between the law of consecration and communism.