What Sins Or Wickedness?

[Traveler]

Just wondering - concerning opinions. What sin(s) invite destruction?

What is it that people do that make them worthy of terrible destructions? What really evil things must you do to be worthy of terrible or bad things? How evil do you have to be before G-d will do something about it and what are the evil things that are enough for him to do something.

If you do not believe in a connection between doing evil things and bad things happening, what then is the justice in bad things that happen - proof there is no justice?

...................

Let me make one little statement and see how the forum responds. How do you define or know when a evil thing has happened if it is not that the undeserving suffer for it?

The Traveler

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Traveler@Sep 13 2005, 09:35 PM

Just wondering - concerning opinions.  What sin(s) invite destruction?

What is it that people do that make them worthy of terrible destructions?  What really evil things must you do to be worthy of terrible or bad things?  How evil do you have to be before G-d will do something about it and what are the evil things that are enough for him to do something.

If you do not believe in a connection between doing evil things and bad things happening, what then is the justice in bad things that happen - proof there is no justice?

...................

Let me make one little statement and see how the forum responds.  How do you define or know when a evil thing has happened if it is not that the undeserving suffer for it?

The Traveler

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I would think that stoning and casting out the prophets said to cause God's wrath.

I also would think that imorality and irreverence for God would be on the hit lists..

[Ray]

How would you feel if you were trying to help people and they either didn’t listen to you or they listened and then ignored or dismissed what you told them…repeatedly and repeatedly and repeatedly? Wouldn’t that make you angry?

And btw, I consider God’s anger to be more like frustration than how most people define anger. Or in other words, it's more like the emotion we would have if someone was blindly walking towards a cliff and we were trying to get them to STOP!

[Jason]

Originally posted by Traveler@Sep 13 2005, 09:35 PM

If you do not believe in a connection between doing evil things and bad things happening, what then is the justice in bad things that happen - proof there is no justice?

...................

Let me make one little statement and see how the forum responds.  How do you define or know when a evil thing has happened if it is not that the undeserving suffer for it?

The Traveler

←

Why does the sun shine on the good and the bad alike? Is that proof that there is no justice?

[Traveler]

Originally posted by Jason+Sep 16 2005, 04:25 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Traveler@Sep 13 2005, 09:35 PM

If you do not believe in a connection between doing evil things and bad things happening, what then is the justice in bad things that happen - proof there is no justice?

...................

Let me make one little statement and see how the forum responds.  How do you define or know when a evil thing has happened if it is not that the undeserving suffer for it?

The Traveler

←

Why does the sun shine on the good and the bad alike? Is that proof that there is no justice?

←

Not in this mortal existence.

[Guest ApostleKnight]

Originally posted by Traveler@Sep 13 2005, 10:35 PM

Just wondering - concerning opinions.  What sin(s) invite destruction?

What is it that people do that make them worthy of terrible destructions?  What really evil things must you do to be worthy of terrible or bad things?  How evil do you have to be before G-d will do something about it and what are the evil things that are enough for him to do something.

←

Interesting discussion. Unlike individuals, nations cannot be punished or rewarded in the next life, and so by and large they are punished or rewarded in this life. A wicked nation is composed of individuals (not all necessarily wicked), and so when God punishes a wicked nation there may be innocent people living in it that receive the result too...with the exception that God knows more than us, will more then recompense us for suffering endured here in his name, and lots of other positive reasons to help one face squarely the fact that innocents suffer.

God promised us two things, I believe, when we entered this world.

(1) We would suffer.

(2) This suffering would allow us to appreciate joy, for how can a man know sugar is sweet if he has not tasted salt? We only come to prize the good by tasting the bitter (to paraphrase a revelation in the D&C).

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by ApostleKnight+Sep 16 2005, 07:11 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Traveler@Sep 13 2005, 10:35 PM

Just wondering - concerning opinions.  What sin(s) invite destruction?

What is it that people do that make them worthy of terrible destructions?  What really evil things must you do to be worthy of terrible or bad things?  How evil do you have to be before G-d will do something about it and what are the evil things that are enough for him to do something.

←

Interesting discussion. Unlike individuals, nations cannot be punished or rewarded in the next life, and so by and large they are punished or rewarded in this life. A wicked nation is composed of individuals (not all necessarily wicked), and so when God punishes a wicked nation there may be innocent people living in it that receive the result too...with the exception that God knows more than us, will more then recompense us for suffering endured here in his name, and lots of other positive reasons to help one face squarely the fact that innocents suffer.

God promised us two things, I believe, when we entered this world.

(1) We would suffer.

(2) This suffering would allow us to appreciate joy, for how can a man know sugar is sweet if he has not tasted salt? We only come to prize the good by tasting the bitter (to paraphrase a revelation in the D&C).

←

Thank you.

[Guest ApostleKnight]

Originally posted by Please@Sep 16 2005, 08:31 PM

Thank you.

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My pleasure.

[DisRuptive1]

As you so adequately put, there is no pleasure without pain. No good sex without bad sex, etc.

[Guest ApostleKnight]

Originally posted by DisRuptive1@Sep 16 2005, 09:02 PM

As you so adequately put, there is no pleasure without pain.  No good sex without bad sex, etc.

←

Continuing with that line of thought, Dis, has it ever occured to you that as a couple matures together and grows old together they might learn more about each other and hence, how to better enjoy becoming one together?

In other words, the "bad sex" could simply be the first sexual experiences they have together, inexperienced, innocent, clean and pure. The "good sex" could be the increased understanding of their bodies and personalities that they develop together within marriage. So again, it is simply not true that fornication or open relationships or anything of a similar sort is somehow to be sought after because of the end result (which I'm still not convinced of...okay, will pretty much never be convinced of).

Dis, the end doesn't justify the means, in politics, business or sex. Just a thought (though I happen to believe it's correct!).

Also, in this case, the opposites necessary to appreciate either end of the spectrum are the absence of sex and having sex within marriage, so it's not a matter of "good sex" versus "bad sex," more a matter of "no sex" versus "having sex in marriage."

[Guest bizabra]

The Universe is neutral with regards human life. It goes about it's business of expanding and expanding, and things happen because of natural laws of physics. Life appears and disappears as conditions change. Nothing that individual or collective humans do that might be construed as "sins" can affect the Universe.

Humans, MAY have an effect on the current environmental conditions on this planet, but the effect may be slight. Termite mounds produce as much or more methane as human activity, and we know that cattle production world wide produces a huge amount of methane, so it is not humans alone that affect the environment.

I believe that there is no correlation between human vices and "destruction" from an imaginary god being. Nothing humans do would make them "worthy" of being destroyed.

There is no "justice" in how some people are hurt by natural disasters and others come out unscathed. Bad people can go through life without having to answer for their "sins", whilst good people sometimes have awful catastrophes happen to them, and vice versa. "Stuff" happens. We don't think it into happening and we don't "sin" it into happening, either.

Mother Nature is neither vengeful or benevolent. And she doesn't care if we worship her or not.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by ApostleKnight+Sep 16 2005, 08:08 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-DisRuptive1@Sep 16 2005, 09:02 PM

As you so adequately put, there is no pleasure without pain.  No good sex without bad sex, etc.

←

Continuing with that line of thought, Dis, has it ever occured to you that as a couple matures together and grows old together they might learn more about each other and hence, how to better enjoy becoming one together?

In other words, the "bad sex" could simply be the first sexual experiences they have together, inexperienced, innocent, clean and pure. The "good sex" could be the increased understanding of their bodies and personalities that they develop together within marriage. So again, it is simply not true that fornication or open relationships or anything of a similar sort is somehow to be sought after because of the end result (which I'm still not convinced of...okay, will pretty much never be convinced of).

Dis, the end doesn't justify the means, in politics, business or sex. Just a thought (though I happen to believe it's correct!).

Also, in this case, the opposites necessary to appreciate either end of the spectrum are the absence of sex and having sex within marriage, so it's not a matter of "good sex" versus "bad sex," more a matter of "no sex" versus "having sex in marriage."

←

Thank you for your clear thinking...

It is a myth started by imoral persons that doing the deed with everyone before they are married is for the better.... Those who didn't do the deed first, have so much more peace of mind and fulfillment in the loyalty and purity of their companion than all the worries and stress those who have been imoral have about who their companion was with before and were they as good or better, and was there any diseases transmitted and was there any children conceived or aborted because of it... and will they be faithful.... when they have had so much experience of being imoral...

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by bizabra@Sep 17 2005, 10:26 AM

The Universe is neutral with regards human life.  It goes about it's business of expanding and expanding, and things happen because of natural laws of physics.  Life appears and disappears as conditions change.  Nothing that individual or collective humans do that might be construed as "sins" can affect the Universe.

Humans, MAY have an effect on the current environmental conditions on this planet, but the effect may be slight.  Termite mounds produce as much or more methane as human activity, and we know that cattle production world wide produces a huge amount of methane, so it is not humans alone that affect the environment.

I believe that there is no correlation between human vices and "destruction" from an imaginary god being.  Nothing humans do would make them "worthy" of being destroyed.

There is no "justice" in how some people are hurt by natural disasters and others come out unscathed.  Bad people can go through life without having to answer for their "sins", whilst good people sometimes have awful catastrophes happen to them, and vice versa.  "Stuff" happens.  We don't think it into happening and we don't "sin" it into happening, either.

Mother Nature is neither vengeful or benevolent.  And she doesn't care if we worship her or not.

←

Thank heavens it is only as you perceive it. Because reality is definitely way different than that...

[Jason]

Originally posted by Please+Sep 17 2005, 11:13 AM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-bizabra@Sep 17 2005, 10:26 AM

The Universe is neutral with regards human life.  It goes about it's business of expanding and expanding, and things happen because of natural laws of physics.  Life appears and disappears as conditions change.  Nothing that individual or collective humans do that might be construed as "sins" can affect the Universe.

Humans, MAY have an effect on the current environmental conditions on this planet, but the effect may be slight.  Termite mounds produce as much or more methane as human activity, and we know that cattle production world wide produces a huge amount of methane, so it is not humans alone that affect the environment.

I believe that there is no correlation between human vices and "destruction" from an imaginary god being.  Nothing humans do would make them "worthy" of being destroyed.

There is no "justice" in how some people are hurt by natural disasters and others come out unscathed.  Bad people can go through life without having to answer for their "sins", whilst good people sometimes have awful catastrophes happen to them, and vice versa.  "Stuff" happens.  We don't think it into happening and we don't "sin" it into happening, either.

Mother Nature is neither vengeful or benevolent.  And she doesn't care if we worship her or not.

←

Thank heavens it is only as you perceive it. Because reality is definitely way different than that...

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"Reality"? C'mon Please. You can't be so thick headed that you know that Biz's statement is a fact, while your belief's are unprovable, can you?

[Guest Member_Deleted]

"Reality"? C'mon Please. You can't be so thick headed that you know that Biz's statement is a fact, while your belief's are unprovable, can you?

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You insist upon grounding yourself at a telestial level while others soar to higher levels of understanding and knowledge.

I don't think one can sucessfully argue against something of which they know nothing... yet you continue to try...