The Axis Of Evil... Walmart!

[seamusz]

Just thought I'd make a plug for a new movie that shows the darker side of Wally World.

http://www.walmartmovie.com/

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by seamusz@Sep 29 2005, 11:26 AM

Just thought I'd make a plug for a new movie that shows the darker side of Wally World.

http://www.walmartmovie.com/

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Honestly... I find this whole thing very stupid...

[StrawberryFields]

Interesting...

Corportations like these are very powerful. It's about bread and butter we all need to eat.

[pushka]

Hmmm...I see what you mean SF...

I've been arguing with myself lately, about being slaves to big businesses and supermarkets, and how it's so difficult not to be...

In some respects I feel it would be great if we could each find our own trusted farmers/food suppliers/stockists, locally, that we trust and just start trading with them instead...

I also look at this from a vegetarian's point of view...in that I would prefer to obtain fresh vegetables that have been organically grown, without harmful pesticides being used, (animal and human friendly!), from somebody I know produces them the way I prefer, and I'm sure people buying meat/fish/poultry would also prefer this to the mass production foodstuffs offered in chain stores, where we are not certain that the goods they state are Organic really are organic, or that the animals sold for our consumption have been treated well prior to their slaughter.

Personally, I know one or two people who grow their own herbs and veg, and others that produce their own preserves, and we all belong to Lets, and do not charge money for these products when exchanged amongst members of the scheme...I'm hoping to start to 'purchase' more of the good I need from those people...

[seamusz]

Originally posted by Please+Sep 29 2005, 11:33 AM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-seamusz@Sep 29 2005, 11:26 AM

Just thought I'd make a plug for a new movie that shows the darker side of Wally World.

http://www.walmartmovie.com/

←

Honestly... I find this whole thing very stupid...

←

any qualification for this comment?

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by seamusz+Sep 29 2005, 11:52 AM-->

Originally posted by Please@Sep 29 2005, 11:33 AM

<!--QuoteBegin-seamusz@Sep 29 2005, 11:26 AM

Just thought I'd make a plug for a new movie that shows the darker side of Wally World.

http://www.walmartmovie.com/

←

Honestly... I find this whole thing very stupid...

←

any qualification for this comment?

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Yeah... I studied economics in college... from what I understand it all runs on competition... if your comptition is doing something better than you... then you need to meet it or forget it... asking the competition to just go away is silly...

[seamusz]

Originally posted by Please@Sep 29 2005, 01:46 PM

Yeah... I studied economics in college... from what I understand it all runs on competition... if your comptition is doing something better than you... then you need to meet it or forget it... asking the competition to just go away is silly...

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well, that is fine as long as the competition is running an ethical business. The argument against Walmart is that they make there bucks by using unethical practices. Not to mention the way they sap money out of the economy, locally and nationally. Speaking on the economics of the issue, how is it good for our national economy to take money spent by a local consumer and use it to buy the vast majority of your goods and services from a foreign market?

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by seamusz+Sep 29 2005, 02:47 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Please@Sep 29 2005, 01:46 PM

Yeah... I studied economics in college... from what I understand it all runs on competition... if your comptition is doing something better than you... then you need to meet it or forget it... asking the competition to just go away is silly...

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well, that is fine as long as the competition is running an ethical business. The argument against Walmart is that they make there bucks by using unethical practices. Not to mention the way they sap money out of the economy, locally and nationally. Speaking on the economics of the issue, how is it good for our national economy to take money spent by a local consumer and use it to buy the vast majority of your goods and services from a foreign market?

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Ethics are long gone and history when you are talking about business of any size...

As far as the money being sucked out of our economy.... the government has been doing that for ever... where do you think most of our auto parts are built now?

I can't see targetting Walmart when everyone out there is doing as much or more.... includingyour local government...

[Heather]

I love Walmart!

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Heather@Sep 29 2005, 03:09 PM

I love Walmart!

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ME TOO!!!

[StrawberryFields]

Falling Prices is how Wal-Mart builds their clientele. As Vendor you want into Wal-Mart because of the volume they do. Placement in Wal-Mart comes at a price. Yes Wal-Mart can help you up the road of success but they can also skin you alive in the process.

I guess we all know what is going on here and for the most part we support it by shopping there. Money is a very powerful driving force and it's about bread and butter...

[seamusz]

Originally posted by Please+Sep 29 2005, 03:17 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Heather@Sep 29 2005, 03:09 PM

I love Walmart!

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ME TOO!!!

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*The following information was not compiled by me*

- Wal-Mart sales clerks made an average of $8.23 an hour—or $13,861 a year—in 2001. That's nearly $800 below the federal poverty line for a family of three. (Source: Business Week)

- In Georgia, Wal-Mart employees are six times more likely to rely on state-provided health care for their children than are employees of any other large company. (Source: Atlanta Journal-Constitution)

- Reliance on public assistance programs in California by Wal-Mart workers costs the state's taxpayers an estimated $86 million annually. (Source: UC Berkeley Study)

- In the first decade after Wal-Mart arrived in Iowa, the state lost 555 grocery stores, 298 hardware stores, 293 building supply stores, 161 variety stores, 158 women's apparel stores, 153 shoe stores, 116 drugstores, and 111 men's and boys' apparel stores. (Source: Iowa State University Study)

- Every year Wal-Mart purchases $15 billion worth of products from China. (Source: Washington Post)

- Today Wal-Mart uses over 3,000 Chinese factories to produce its goods—almost as many factories as it has stores in the U.S. (3,600). (Source: L.A. Times)

- All else being equal, U.S. counties where new Wal-Mart stores were built between 1987 and 1998 experienced higher poverty rates than other U.S. counties. (Source: Pennsylvania State University Study)]

* This company runs ads featuring the United States flag and proclaims "We Buy American". In 2001 they moved their worldwide purchasing headquarters to China and are the largest importer of Chinese goods in the US, purchasing over $10 BILLION of Chinese-made products annually. Products made mostly by women and children working in the labor hell-holes China is famous for.

* Their average employee working in the US makes $15,000 a year, $7.22 per hour!

* These employees gross under $11,000 a year.

* The company brags that 70% of their employees are full time, but fails to disclose that they count anyone working 28 hours a week or more as full time.

* There are no health care benefits unless you have worked for the company for two years.

* With a turnover rate averaging above 50% per year, only 38% of their 1.3 million employees have health care coverage. -In California alone it's estimated that the taxpayers pay over $20 million annually to subsidize health care benefits for these employees who get none from this behemoth corporation.

* According to a report by PBS's "Now" with Bill Moyer, their managers are trained in what government social programs are available for these"employees" to take advantage of so that the company can pass on those costs to you and me. It allows them to not only keep their $7 BILLION in annual profits, but to do so by substituting benefits they refuse to provide with benefits paid for with taxpayer dollars.

* This company holds the record for the most suits filed against it by the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. A lawyer from "Business Week" (not exactly the bastion for supporting Labor) said, "I have never seen this kind of blatant disregard for the law." They had to pay $750,000.00 in Arizona for blatant discrimination against the disabled! The judge was so incensed that he also order them to run commercials admitting their guilt.

* The National Labor Relations Board has issued over 40 formal complaints against the corporation in 25 different states in just the past five years. The NLRB's top lawyer believed that their labor violations, such as Illegal spying on employees, fraudulent record keeping, falsifying time cards to avoid paying overtime, threats, illegal firings for union organizing etc., were so widespread that he was looking into filing a very rare national complaint against the company. (The company contributed $2,159,330.00 to GW Bush and the GOP in 2000 and 2002. The NLRB attorney was replaced when President Bush took office.).

* Nearly 1 MILLION women are involved in the largest class-action suit every filed against a corporation. Although women make up over 65% of this corporations work force only 10% of them are managers. The women who have become store managers make $16,400 a year LESS then the men.

* The corporation took out nearly 350,000 life insurance policies on their employees. They did not tell the employees and then named the corporation as the beneficiary. They are now being sued by numerous employees, and although the corporation has stopped this practice of purchasing what is known as "Dead Peasant Policy's", a company spokesperson stated, "The company feels it acted properly and legally in doing this."

* They force employees to work after ordering them to punch out. In Texas alone this practice of "wage theft" is estimated to have cost employees $30 million per year. Wage theft or "off-the-clock" lawsuits are pending in 25 states. In New Mexico they paid $400,000.00 in one suit and in Colorado they had to pay $50 MILLION to settle one class-action case brought against them. In Oregon a jury found them guilty of locking employees in the building and of forcing unpaid overtime.

* With 4,400 stores they practice "predatory pricing." They come into a community and sell their goods at below cost until they drive local businesses under. Once they have captured the market the prices go up.

* Locally owned and operated businesses put virtually all of their money back into the community which helps keep the local economies vibrant. This corporation ###### the money out of the local community, decreases wages and benefits and ships the profits out of state.

* This company doesn't buy locally or bank locally. They replace three decent paying jobs in a community with two poorly paid "part-timers".

* In Kirksville, Missouri when this company came to town, four clothing stores, four grocery stores, a stationary store, a fabric store and a lawn-and-garden store all went under. Eleven businesses are now gone.

(The above information can be found in "Thieves in High Places", James

Hightower, The Penguin Group, New York, NY, 2003 p. 166 - 193.)

[seamusz]

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields@Sep 29 2005, 03:46 PM

Falling Prices is how Wal-Mart builds their clientele. As Vendor you want into Wal-Mart because of the volume they do. Placement in Wal-Mart comes at a price. Yes Wal-Mart can help you up the road of success but they can also skin you alive in the process. 

 

I guess we all know what is going on here and for the most part we support it by shopping there. Money is a very powerful driving force and it's about bread and butter...

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But we don't have to shop there. I think that if you actually compared the amount you save at shopping at wallyworld, you would be surprised how comparable most other stores are. Plus, as a Latter-Day-Saints, I think that it is important to frequent businesses that are not open on Sundays. We do all our grocery shopping at our local Maceys. We also try to shop local businesses first when it comes to other things as well. People make it sound as if they would go bankrupt if they didn't shop at Walmart, this is just simply not the case. You have a choice and it is important that we make the right one!

[seamusz]

Originally posted by Please@Sep 29 2005, 03:05 PM

Ethics are long gone and history when you are talking about business of any size...

As far as the money being sucked out of our economy.... the government has been doing that for ever... where do you think most of our auto parts are built now?

I can't see targetting Walmart when everyone out there is doing as much or more.... includingyour local government...

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That is the most apathetic statement I've heard from you.

Let me get this strait, because the world is not ethical in business makes it ok to not be ethical, or support unethical behavior??? Do you/would you teach your children to think this way? Its ok because everyone else is doing it!!!

Why should we settle on anything but ethical behavior? If there is a problem that you see in any aspect of your personal or political envirornment, you should work to fix it.

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by seamusz+Sep 29 2005, 05:11 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Strawberry Fields@Sep 29 2005, 03:46 PM

 

Falling Prices is how Wal-Mart builds their clientele. As Vendor you want into Wal-Mart because of the volume they do. Placement in Wal-Mart comes at a price. Yes Wal-Mart can help you up the road of success but they can also skin you alive in the process.   

 

I guess we all know what is going on here and for the most part we support it by shopping there. Money is a very powerful driving force and it's about bread and butter... 

←

 

But we don't have to shop there. I think that if you actually compared the amount you save at shopping at wallyworld, you would be surprised how comparable most other stores are. Plus, as a Latter-Day-Saints, I think that it is important to frequent businesses that are not open on Sundays. We do all our grocery shopping at our local Maceys. We also try to shop local businesses first when it comes to other things as well. People make it sound as if they would go bankrupt if they didn't shop at Walmart, this is just simply not the case. You have a choice and it is important that we make the right one!

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I would tend to agree with you it you were talking about Sams or Costco but at Wal-Mart there is a savings.

Now for the ethical question... If we were all to stop shopping at Wal-Mart then all of those people would be out of a job and I am not sure that that would be right.

[seamusz]

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields@Sep 29 2005, 05:32 PM

I would tend to agree with you it you were talking about Sams or Costco but at Wal-Mart there is a savings.

Now for the ethical question... If we were all to stop shopping at Wal-Mart then all of those people would be out of a job and I am not sure that that would be right.

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But they wouldn't be out of a job, because by frequenting other buisnesses, it would increase the demand for labor at those stores. Not only would the jobs be replaced, but they would also be better jobs, and more of them.

[Heather]

I like the 24/7 Supercenter. You never know when you might need towels at 3:00 in the morning.

Really though, I had to go to walmart at 3:00am a few months ago because I needed medicine for my son. Walmart is not going away. If they did, some other evil store would replace them. I really don't find them to be the lowest prices with groceries. I like to go to Albertsons because they send me $5 off of $25 coupons. But everything else like diapers, formula, toys, they're always cheaper.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by seamusz+Sep 29 2005, 05:43 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Strawberry Fields@Sep 29 2005, 05:32 PM

I would tend to agree with you it you were talking about Sams or Costco but at Wal-Mart there is a savings.

Now for the ethical question... If we were all to stop shopping at Wal-Mart then all of those people would be out of a job and I am not sure that that would be right.

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But they wouldn't be out of a job, because by frequenting other buisnesses, it would increase the demand for labor at those stores. Not only would the jobs be replaced, but they would also be better jobs, and more of them.

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Not so.... the fewer stores... the fewer jobs... and the more control the other stores have over prices...

[Heather]

I think that's what they're worried about with walmart. Walmart comes in and the other stores go out of business. I had someone come talk to me a few months ago about running an ad for my business in one of the magazines at walmart. He told me that when a walmart goes in, the gross of competing businesses around walmart go down by something like 25%. (That number might be off. It was a few months ago, but I remember it was a number that would definitely take a bite out of any business trying to survive.) It's sad yes, but I guess I'm in the part of the group that says, "Oh well. Walmart is here to stay, and besides, I really like to shop there!"

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Heather@Sep 29 2005, 06:51 PM

I think that's what they're worried about with walmart.  Walmart comes in and the other stores go out of business.  I had someone come talk to me a few months ago about running an ad for my business in one of the magazines at walmart. He told me that when a walmart goes in, the gross of competing businesses around walmart go down by something like 25%.  (That number might be off. It was a few months ago, but I remember it was a number that would definitely take a bite out of any business trying to survive.)  It's sad yes, but I guess I'm in the part of the group that says, "Oh well. Walmart is here to stay, and besides, I really like to shop there!"

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I just don't see it fair that when there are places like Taget ... that Walmart should be the one they come after...

[pushka]

I think that all unethical businesses should be targetted for 'outing'...

Seamusz...I believe this may be one of the most interesting, non-religious, posts I've read on here for a while...

I believe that Walmart now either owns or is in partnership with our UK ASDA stores...perhaps I ought to copy some of your information/facts+figures and that original link into some of the UK based message boards that I visit, where we regularly take action/protest at unethical practises...

[shanstress70]

I agree that this is an interesting topic. I've struggled with it myself in the past. Although I haven't boycotted Walmart, I don't feel good about shopping there. I rarely go there, but if I need something that I can get at a much better price there, I will.

My love is Target. I'm normally not a big shopper or spender, but I can go in Target to get a roll of paper towels and spend $100 easily on other stuff I 'really needed'! There are Targets all over my city, and our office is moving to where we will be on the street right behind Target - in easy walking distance - that's bad! Is this store unethical in the way that Walmart is?

I will say that Walmart redeemed themselves in my eyes the way they brought in so many supplies after Hurricane Katrina. They were there before the Red Cross... or so I hear.

[Outshined]

Originally posted by shanstress70@Sep 30 2005, 06:06 AM

I will say that Walmart redeemed themselves in my eyes the way they brought in so many supplies after Hurricane Katrina.  They were there before the Red Cross... or so I hear.

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This is true; we unloaded dozens of semi trailer loads of goods donated by Walmart just in the area I was in. They were very generous.

[Heather]

What makes a super target better "morally" than a super walmart?

[shanstress70]

Originally posted by Heather@Sep 30 2005, 09:24 AM

What makes a super target better "morally" than a super walmart?

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Heather, I'm not saying Target IS better than Walmart. I'm just saying that is my favorite store. I asked the question in my post, is Target as unethical as Walmart? That is a sincere question... I don't know the answer.

Or maybe you weren't even addressing me... :)