The Axis Of Evil... Walmart!

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by shanstress70+Sep 30 2005, 08:33 AM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Heather@Sep 30 2005, 09:24 AM

What makes a super target better "morally" than a super walmart?

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Heather, I'm not saying Target IS better than Walmart. I'm just saying that is my favorite store. I asked the question in my post, is Target as unethical as Walmart? That is a sincere question... I don't know the answer.

Or maybe you weren't even addressing me... :)

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I don't either... but I don't see any difference in the stores except target is more expensive.

[Lindy]

Originally posted by Please+Sep 29 2005, 12:46 PM-->

Originally posted by seamusz@Sep 29 2005, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by Please@Sep 29 2005, 11:33 AM

<!--QuoteBegin-seamusz@Sep 29 2005, 11:26 AM

Just thought I'd make a plug for a new movie that shows the darker side of Wally World.

http://www.walmartmovie.com/

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Honestly... I find this whole thing very stupid...

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any qualification for this comment?

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Yeah... I studied economics in college... from what I understand it all runs on competition... if your comptition is doing something better than you... then you need to meet it or forget it... asking the competition to just go away is silly...

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Please~ the "competition" makes it a point of their business to take over and destroy an area. Forcing the small businesses, the family owned and operated "mom and pop" stores out of business....then when they accomplish that much...they move on to another area. Search and destroy... I don't hold anything against those who work for Wal-Mart...everyone has to make a living. I just don't like their politics, and choose not to shop there if I can help it. You have to stand for something sometimes..... I'll pay the extra money to keep someone else in business.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Lindy+Sep 30 2005, 10:18 AM-->

Originally posted by Please@Sep 29 2005, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by seamusz@Sep 29 2005, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by Please@Sep 29 2005, 11:33 AM

<!--QuoteBegin-seamusz@Sep 29 2005, 11:26 AM

Just thought I'd make a plug for a new movie that shows the darker side of Wally World.

http://www.walmartmovie.com/

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Honestly... I find this whole thing very stupid...

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any qualification for this comment?

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Yeah... I studied economics in college... from what I understand it all runs on competition... if your comptition is doing something better than you... then you need to meet it or forget it... asking the competition to just go away is silly...

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Please~ the "competition" makes it a point of their business to take over and destroy an area. Forcing the small businesses, the family owned and operated "mom and pop" stores out of business....then when they accomplish that much...they move on to another area. Search and destroy... I don't hold anything against those who work for Wal-Mart...everyone has to make a living. I just don't like their politics, and choose not to shop there if I can help it. You have to stand for something sometimes..... I'll pay the extra money to keep someone else in business.

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Yeah we do have to make a stand... but we have to start at the top... not the bottom... start with Bush who is pro big business...

[shanstress70]

Originally posted by Please+Sep 30 2005, 10:12 AM-->

Originally posted by shanstress70@Sep 30 2005, 08:33 AM

<!--QuoteBegin-Heather@Sep 30 2005, 09:24 AM

What makes a super target better "morally" than a super walmart?

←

Heather, I'm not saying Target IS better than Walmart. I'm just saying that is my favorite store. I asked the question in my post, is Target as unethical as Walmart? That is a sincere question... I don't know the answer.

Or maybe you weren't even addressing me... :)

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I don't either... but I don't see any difference in the stores except target is more expensive.

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Honestly, there probably aren't a lot of differences in the way their businesses are run. I'd like to find out. Anyone have any info on this? I'll look when I get a chance.

Actually, I just like Target's stuff better. I like some of their clothing lines, like Mizrahi (sp?), and the bed/bath decor. I find them to be a tiny bit more expensive, but not much.

I just went to meet DH for lunch, and guess where he had to run to pick up some stuff? Wallyworld! I felt like a hypocrite after just discussing this!

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by shanstress70+Sep 30 2005, 11:20 AM-->

Originally posted by Please@Sep 30 2005, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by shanstress70@Sep 30 2005, 08:33 AM

<!--QuoteBegin-Heather@Sep 30 2005, 09:24 AM

What makes a super target better "morally" than a super walmart?

←

Heather, I'm not saying Target IS better than Walmart. I'm just saying that is my favorite store. I asked the question in my post, is Target as unethical as Walmart? That is a sincere question... I don't know the answer.

Or maybe you weren't even addressing me... :)

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I don't either... but I don't see any difference in the stores except target is more expensive.

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Honestly, there probably aren't a lot of differences in the way their businesses are run. I'd like to find out. Anyone have any info on this? I'll look when I get a chance.

Actually, I just like Target's stuff better. I like some of their clothing lines, like Mizrahi (sp?), and the bed/bath decor. I find them to be a tiny bit more expensive, but not much.

I just went to meet DH for lunch, and guess where he had to run to pick up some stuff? Wallyworld! I felt like a hypocrite after just discussing this!

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LOL... where would we go to search targets business stuff?

[daizymae]

Originally posted by shanstress70@Sep 30 2005, 06:06 AM

I will say that Walmart redeemed themselves in my eyes the way they brought in so many supplies after Hurricane Katrina.  They were there before the Red Cross... or so I hear.

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Yes, but something Walmart isn't going to toot their horn about is the fact the money they put toward the hurricane took away from money that they donate to other charities, with the biggest chunk coming from the Children's Miracle Network. My dad works for the company that prints the paper balloons you purchase for a buck at Walmart to support CMN, and as soon as the hurricane hit, Walmart cancelled a huge order (an almost $1 million order) for the printing of their promotional campaign for their CMN charity drive. Now tell me....does Walmart not make enough money to continue their current charity donations AND support hurricane victims??? A few million dollars is pocket change to them, but the loss of income for that printing company was huge!

I've seen first hand what Walmart can do to a small-town family business. I've seen people lose good jobs when Walmart puts their employer out of business....and they either have to relocate to find another job or go to work for the very company that cost them their job.

People have the attitude that if they can't compete, then too bad. But it is IMPOSSIBLE for a small business to compete with Walmart and still make a profit.

I make a point to support local businesses. That's not to say that I never shop at Walmart, but I certainly try to avoid it. I would much rather pay a few extra dollars and support the guy next door than save a few bucks to support a corporation that could really care less about my community.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by daizymae+Sep 30 2005, 01:21 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-shanstress70@Sep 30 2005, 06:06 AM

I will say that Walmart redeemed themselves in my eyes the way they brought in so many supplies after Hurricane Katrina.  They were there before the Red Cross... or so I hear.

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Yes, but something Walmart isn't going to toot their horn about is the fact the money they put toward the hurricane took away from money that they donate to other charities, with the biggest chunk coming from the Children's Miracle Network. My dad works for the company that prints the paper balloons you purchase for a buck at Walmart to support CMN, and as soon as the hurricane hit, Walmart cancelled a huge order (an almost $1 million order) for the printing of their promotional campaign for their CMN charity drive. Now tell me....does Walmart not make enough money to continue their current charity donations AND support hurricane victims??? A few million dollars is pocket change to them, but the loss of income for that printing company was huge!

I've seen first hand what Walmart can do to a small-town family business. I've seen people lose good jobs when Walmart puts their employer out of business....and they either have to relocate to find another job or go to work for the very company that cost them their job.

People have the attitude that if they can't compete, then too bad. But it is IMPOSSIBLE for a small business to compete with Walmart and still make a profit.

I make a point to support local businesses. That's not to say that I never shop at Walmart, but I certainly try to avoid it. I would much rather pay a few extra dollars and support the guy next door than save a few bucks to support a corporation that could really care less about my community.

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I don't know... I say a family needing the less expensive products from Walmart... defiinitely comes before a mom and pop... wanting their own business..

[daizymae]

Yes, it's nice to save money. We're poor. There's very little in our income for extras. And yet we can survive without Walmart. Doesn't anybody remember life BEFORE Walmart? Was everyone destitute then? That's not the way I remember it (though I was young when Walmart came to my town, so maybe my parents just did a good job making us seem like we had enough to live on).

Small business can't compete with Walmart (heck, from what I've heard, not even Walmart will compete with Walmart). But they can compete with each other.....too bad they aren't given the chance, because most of them will close after Walmart comes to town.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by daizymae@Sep 30 2005, 01:30 PM

Yes, it's nice to save money.  We're poor.  There's very little in our income for extras.  And yet we can survive without Walmart.  Doesn't anybody remember life BEFORE Walmart?  Was everyone destitute then?  That's not the way I remember it (though I was young when Walmart came to my town, so maybe my parents just did a good job making us seem like we had enough to live on).

Small business can't compete with Walmart (heck, from what I've heard, not even Walmart will compete with Walmart).  But they can compete with each other.....too bad they aren't given the chance, because most of them will close after Walmart comes to town.

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I used places like Storehouse which was a warehouse with no frills... It was dirty and no services...and we didn't pay any less there than we have at Walmart where we get all the benefits of clean store... labeled and priced items... and someone to bag our food... is that too much to ask? Storehouse owned locally by the Dallens... went bankrupt because of bad investments... not because of Walmart...

[daizymae]

Originally posted by Please@Sep 30 2005, 01:36 PM

I used places like Storehouse which was a warehouse with no frills... It was dirty and no services...and we didn't pay any less there than we have at Walmart where we get all the benefits of clean store... labeled and priced items... and someone to bag our food...  is that too much to ask?  Storehouse owned locally by the Dallens... went bankrupt because of bad investments... not because of Walmart...

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Certainly not every business that goes out of business is going to do so simply because of Walmart. But for many businesses (I'm talking the small ones....even Storehouse, though local, was a fairly large business...and if their business was unethical, then no amount of pleasant benefits for customers would have saved them) Walmart plays a large part in their demise.

As for Walmart being a clean and friendly place to shop.....I'm sure it depends greatly on your area, but those in places that I have lived leave a lot to be desired! Good service is something that we all appreciate in a business. You'll find crappy service in some small businesses as well. I used to work in a bookstore that had a crab of an owner. People hated coming in for fear that they would have to deal with her. Personally, I think you're more likely to find pleasant customer service from employees who know that they are appreciated and being paid what they are worth....and I doubt that you'll find many checkers at Walmart that would give you glowing reviews about their jobs.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by daizymae+Sep 30 2005, 01:56 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Please@Sep 30 2005, 01:36 PM

I used places like Storehouse which was a warehouse with no frills... It was dirty and no services...and we didn't pay any less there than we have at Walmart where we get all the benefits of clean store... labeled and priced items... and someone to bag our food...  is that too much to ask?  Storehouse owned locally by the Dallens... went bankrupt because of bad investments... not because of Walmart...

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Certainly not every business that goes out of business is going to do so simply because of Walmart. But for many businesses (I'm talking the small ones....even Storehouse, though local, was a fairly large business...and if their business was unethical, then no amount of pleasant benefits for customers would have saved them) Walmart plays a large part in their demise.

As for Walmart being a clean and friendly place to shop.....I'm sure it depends greatly on your area, but those in places that I have lived leave a lot to be desired! Good service is something that we all appreciate in a business. You'll find crappy service in some small businesses as well. I used to work in a bookstore that had a crab of an owner. People hated coming in for fear that they would have to deal with her. Personally, I think you're more likely to find pleasant customer service from employees who know that they are appreciated and being paid what they are worth....and I doubt that you'll find many checkers at Walmart that would give you glowing reviews about their jobs.

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We know several of the emplyees at our Walmart and they are all happy... in fact it is one of the most pursued places of emplyment around here... for both the youth going to school and the elderly...

[Heather]

Originally posted by shanstress70+Sep 30 2005, 11:20 AM-->

Originally posted by Please@Sep 30 2005, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by shanstress70@Sep 30 2005, 08:33 AM

<!--QuoteBegin-Heather@Sep 30 2005, 09:24 AM

What makes a super target better "morally" than a super walmart?

←

Heather, I'm not saying Target IS better than Walmart. I'm just saying that is my favorite store. I asked the question in my post, is Target as unethical as Walmart? That is a sincere question... I don't know the answer.

Or maybe you weren't even addressing me... :)

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I don't either... but I don't see any difference in the stores except target is more expensive.

←

Honestly, there probably aren't a lot of differences in the way their businesses are run. I'd like to find out. Anyone have any info on this? I'll look when I get a chance.

Actually, I just like Target's stuff better. I like some of their clothing lines, like Mizrahi (sp?), and the bed/bath decor. I find them to be a tiny bit more expensive, but not much.

I just went to meet DH for lunch, and guess where he had to run to pick up some stuff? Wallyworld! I felt like a hypocrite after just discussing this!

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Yeah I'm just curious about why everyone goes after walmart. Maybe it's because they're expanding at a much faster rate than Target. I don't think I would buy clothes at either place (I like Old Navy for that) although if I had to pick one, it would be Target. For every day stuff, and items that they carry that are the same, I have always found it cheaper at walmart. Peek-a-blocks are usually $0.75 cheaper at least! :)

[seamusz]

The reason that I am so against Walmart is that they do not practice ethical business. For example I had a friend that was the lead security officer at a Shopko. She said that when Nintendo came out with their new gamboy thingy (I can't think of the name right now) they had a walmart manager come and try to buy out all of Shopko's supply so that people would have to go to Walmart for the product. They had to escort this man off the premises.

But as far as supporting local businesses, you're right. Target and other big box stores are all in the same league, but small businesses can compete with them, whereas walmart uses its buying power to force retailers to give them a special price. Not to mention that Walmart is the LEADING consumer of goods produced in China.

Just like Daizymae said, you will not go broke by not shopping at Walmart. How many times has someone said to you that they just cannot afford to pay tithing? Doing the right thing is never easy, but always worth it.

I would just like to make it clear that I am a conservative through and through. I think that there is a huge benefit to our society through big business and a wealthy upper class (of which I am most defiantly not a part of :) ) and my feelings on the subject do not resonate from union stands and issues. My feelings are purely on a moral and ethical viewpoint.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by seamusz@Sep 30 2005, 02:45 PM

The reason that I am so against Walmart is that they do not practice ethical business.  For example I had a friend that was the lead security officer at a Shopko.  She said that when Nintendo came out with their new gamboy thingy (I can't think of the name right now) they had a walmart manager come and try to buy out all of Shopko's supply so that people would have to go to Walmart for the product.  They had to escort this man off the premises.

But as far as supporting local businesses, you're right.  Target and other big box stores are all in the same league, but small businesses can compete with them, whereas walmart uses its buying power to force retailers to give them a special price.  Not to mention that Walmart is the LEADING consumer of goods produced in China.

Just like Daizymae said, you will not go broke by not shopping at Walmart.  How many times has someone said to you that they just cannot afford to pay tithing?  Doing the right thing is never easy, but always worth it.

I would just like to make it clear that I am a conservative through and through.  I think that there is a huge benefit to our society through big business and a wealthy upper class (of which I am most defiantly not a part of :) ) and my feelings on the subject do not resonate from union stands and issues.  My feelings are purely on a moral and ethical viewpoint.

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OH HEY>>>>>>> Now I remember something someone sent me.... it was something about Walmart refusing to use UNIONS>>>>>>> OH>>>>> now I understand why they are after Walmart.... LOL

[Outshined]

Originally posted by seamusz@Sep 30 2005, 02:45 PM

Just like Daizymae said, you will not go broke by not shopping at Walmart.  How many times has someone said to you that they just cannot afford to pay tithing?  Doing the right thing is never easy, but always worth it.

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Let's not compare shopping at a paticular store with tithing, shall we? I dare say God does not care which retailer you do business with, nor is boycotting Walmart necessarily the "right" thing to do. Just because one person or group has an ax to grind against a retailer does not mean that it is right or that God is behind their actions.

It's a personal preference, nothing more.

[seamusz]

Originally posted by Outshined@Sep 30 2005, 02:59 PM

Let's not compare shopping at a paticular store with tithing, shall we? I dare say God does not care which retailer you do business with, nor is boycotting Walmart necessarily the "right" thing to do. Just because one person or group has an ax to grind against a retailer does not mean that it is right or that God is behind their actions.

It's a personal preference, nothing more.

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Well, I think that comparing "doing the right thing" with "doing the right thing" is a very valid comparison. Do you think that it is justifiable to shop at a store that is unethical a predatory just because they have better prices? It may surprise some, but doing the right thing goes beyond praying, reading your scriptures, and going to church. Some times it means making a stand that isn't easy.

I dare say that God cares a great deal that we try our darndest to use our income (all of which is a blessing from him) to frequent stores that do business ethically.

I hope that it is clear that this has nothing to do with personal preference and everything to do with doing the right thing.

[shanstress70]

Originally posted by seamusz@Sep 30 2005, 03:45 PM

The reason that I am so against Walmart is that they do not practice ethical business.  For example I had a friend that was the lead security officer at a Shopko.  She said that when Nintendo came out with their new gamboy thingy (I can't think of the name right now) they had a walmart manager come and try to buy out all of Shopko's supply so that people would have to go to Walmart for the product.  They had to escort this man off the premises.

Maybe I'm missing the boat here, but if the guy from Walmart was willing to pay Shopko's price for the Nintendo's, then why does it matter? If I owned a store, I wouldn't care WHO bought my products at my asking price, even if they were going to be re-sold.

[Outshined]

I couldn't disagree more with seamusz. Tithing is a commandment from God, shopping at Walmart or not is your choice. Trying to put the weight of commandment behind it is sorry. If you don't like Walmart's business model that's on you, not God.

And yes, it is about personal preference. If you feel that it is the right thing for you, that's swell, but that doesn't make it the right thing for the rest of the world. That's the same type of fanatacism we see in the Middle East. Just shop where you want and let others do the same. Don't try to paint your choice as "what God would want".

Seriously, if you think your choice of supermarket stands up there with scripture study, prayer, and church attendance, you need more hobbies.

[Outshined]

Originally posted by shanstress70@Sep 30 2005, 03:42 PM

Maybe I'm missing the boat here, but if the guy from Walmart was willing to pay Shopko's price for the Nintendo's, then why does it matter?  If I owned a store, I wouldn't care WHO bought my products at my asking price, even if they were going to be re-sold.

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I agree. B)

[seamusz]

Originally posted by shanstress70+Sep 30 2005, 03:42 PM-->

Originally posted by seamusz@Sep 30 2005, 03:45 PM

The reason that I am so against Walmart is that they do not practice ethical business.  For example I had a friend that was the lead security officer at a Shopko.  She said that when Nintendo came out with their new gamboy thingy (I can't think of the name right now) they had a walmart manager come and try to buy out all of Shopko's supply so that people would have to go to Walmart for the product.  They had to escort this man off the premises. 

 

Maybe I'm missing the boat here, but if the guy from Walmart was willing to pay Shopko's price for the Nintendo's, then why does it matter? If I owned a store, I wouldn't care WHO bought my products at my asking price, even if they were going to be re-sold.

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Its a matter of economics. If you really wanted to get the new gameboy, and went to Shopko to get it, and they didn't have it, but then went to walmart and they had it, then you would be less likely to go to Shopko in the future. This is why when new products come out like the gameing systems, stores limit the quantity that a customer can purchase, they want as many customers as possible to buy there new fancy-shmansy item from them. Shopko wants to sell there items to customers, this is the only way for them to develop a loyal customer. It is this same reason that Walmart wanted to clean them out of this hot item, they obviously don't care if what the price was, cause they know that if they can get away it, then they have effectively gained a new customer(s) and thereby decreased Shopko's customers by one(or more).

<!--QuoteBegin-Outshined@Sep 30 2005, 03:43 PM

I couldn't disagree more with seamusz. Tithing is a commandment from God, shopping at Walmart or not is your choice. Trying to put the weight of commandment behind it is sorry. If you don't like Walmart's business model that's on you, not God.

And yes, it is about personal preference. If you feel that it is the right thing for you, that's swell, but that doesn't make it the right thing for the rest of the world. That's the same type of fanatacism we see in the Middle East. Just shop where you want and let others do the same. Don't try to paint your choice as "what God would want".  

Seriously, if you think your choice of supermarket stands up there with scripture study, prayer, and church attendance, you need more hobbies.

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Oh yeah, my Dad can beat up your dad! You know, if you want to discuss this, thats fine, but I don't think that personal insults have a place here.

Is it, or is it not a question in the Temple Recommend Interview "Are you honest with your dealings with your fellow man"(or something along those lines)

If you knowingly support a business that you know exploits workers, children, governments, and other businesses for personal gain, are you guiltless?

Now I admit that it isn't on the same level as the ten commandments and tithing, but we need to be aware of where and with whom we do business.

[Outshined]

You know, if you want to discuss this, thats fine, but I don't think that personal insults have a place here.

Nor does fanatacism. I'm not the one saying God doesn't want you to shop at Walmart...

If you're honest, you know that almost all major businesses exploit others for gain; it's just become trendy to go after Walmart. Ironically, the only private companies I saw supply anything to the victims of Katrina were Walmart, Miller, and Anheuser-Busch. The latter two supplied water, while Walmart supplied food and many other goods for the victims.

Evil? Hmmmmmm.....

[seamusz]

Originally posted by Outshined@Sep 30 2005, 04:12 PM

You know, if you want to discuss this, thats fine, but I don't think that personal insults have a place here.

Nor does fanatacism. I'm not the one saying God doesn't want you to shop at Walmart...

If you're honest, you know that almost all major businesses exploit others for gain; it's just become trendy to go after Walmart. Ironically, the only private companies I saw supply anything to Katrina were Walmart, Miller, and Anheuser-Busch. The latter two supplies water, while Walmart supplied food and other goods fort the victims.

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hmmm... I noticed that you didn't really have an answer to my point that it is wrong to shop at a place that exploits others. What sort of justification is it to say that "well all corporations are corrupt, so why even try"? Take a stand. I will not support any business that I see enough info to convince me that they are not running an honest business. I would think that God would support any who take such a stand.

But if you feel good about shopping at walmart, by all means go ahead, I hear they have a really good price on your soul!! Do you find it at all ironic that companies that have a negative image show their faces up at the most publicized charity effort of the year. Walmart did a good thing by going to help, but if you think that it was out of benevolence, you are crazy.

[daizymae]

Originally posted by Outshined@Sep 30 2005, 04:12 PM

If you're honest, you know that almost all major businesses exploit others for gain;

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But that doesn't make it OK. Should we not hold ourselves responsible to be loyal to and support businesses that we believe to be operating honestly and ethically? They are out there, believe it or not.

[Outshined]

Interesting "holier-than-thou" attitudes I see, but are you consistent? Do you wear Nike, Adidas, Reebok, Levi's, or any of a number of brand names? Do you shop at Kmart, Target, Lowe's, Home Depot, or any major pharmacy or gas station? If so, you're doing exactly what you claim to be against. It's all or nothing; don't preach against one while supporting the other.

If you can tell me that you only wear clothes made locally, buy food grown locally and drugs manufactured locally by small businesses, all with locall-manufactured materials, you have an argument. Otherwise you're practicing selective outrage.

This is what I mean by fanatacism:

But if you feel good about shopping at walmart, by all means go ahead, I hear they have a really good price on your soul!!

I've met a lot of people with this mentality, but it's usually under Shari'a law.

Do you find it at all ironic that companies that have a negative image show their faces up at the most publicized charity effort of the year. Walmart did a good thing by going to help, but if you think that it was out of benevolence, you are crazy.

Thanks for the opinion (which I note is devoid of facts), but that's all it is; your opinion. Perhaps most ironic is that the companies who you perceive to have have a "negative image" were the most giving. That whole Samaritan thing, you know...

The hype that labels Walmart as "evil" is just a trendy bit, isn't it? Remember, if you buy from any of the above or other major retailer, you're just as guilty.

[shanstress70]

I think you have a great point about Walmart's questionable business ethics, but you lose me at "I hear they have a really good price on your soul!!" Sorry, but that's sounding a bit wacky.